Swoop Pilot Open House & Info Session

[groundpilot]

No A220 in yvr yet but Captain 737 and A320 are going junior. Maybe under 2 years on property and you can hold skipper in yvr

[landshark]

The 220 will be in YVR summer of 2021 with the bids going out next summer for it.

[Tdicommuter]

I also find it hypocritical that pilots (assuming these posts are actually from pilots!) remonstrate Swoop's wages - that are similar to Sunwing and Transat B737 pay - yet they stay quiet about Air Canada's terrible "probationary" pay that lasts 4 lllooonnnggg years. That is the real anchor that holds pilot wages down in Canada. If pilots want to make a statement and improve pilots pay in Canada, they should say NO to Air Canada!

Holy smokes this post clearly demonstrates your an idiot. Your comparing a future at Swoop (3 years of pay steps) to a future at Air Canada? Pension, YOS, health care, different types, I could go on but why bother.

If you actually work at Westjet you are one of the few pilots that think Swoop is beneficial to the “Westjet group” Swoop is arguably the worst move the company has done to undermine and devalue the WJ pilot group. But I’m sure you will come up with some wack-job argument in support of Swoop’ working conditions and pay.

You should be ashamed for promoting such a poorly run and poorly executed company.

That logic does not check out in any way shape or form. Do you think the legacy carriers in the states get better raises because new ULCC's with sub par conditions and wages show up? Nope it actually comes from the other carriers of equal importance getting bigger raises. AA gets raise... United gets raise... Delta goes back to the top.

WestJet uses 90 median for wage projections. This means that now that people like yourself are willing to work for embarrassingly small wages the guys at WestJet need to include your wages in their Median... Aka you drag them down. So now when we have a re-opener at Air Canada and sit down and ask for more money, or better working conditions (of which we already have the best) we don't really have an argument when our closest competitor has 787 wages anywhere from 30 to 50 dollars an hour less than us. To boot in the meantime, Westjet is flying around Pepto planes with guys willing to work for even less. The argument being "we need to protect market share" considering Flair is struggling, Enerjet still doesn't have a plane, and Canada Jetlines is throwing people out of planes rather than booking people on them I'd say the reality is this was a wage/union buster and you fell for it.
You should be begging guys not to show up so maybe they decide to up the wages... Only cancelled flights and bad PR will give you ammo to get a real wage for real work. You guys work more for less than a third tier regional in the states...
The most laughable argument is you are using the WestJet seniority number as bait to work for less. THAT IS LITTERALLY CONVINCING GUYS TO WORK FOR LESS AND IT COSTS THE AIRLINE NOTHING.
You should man up and be honest " I had a crummier job, shit luck in my career and this was MY best option so I jumped on it".I would respect you more for honesty.
So no guys flocking to Swoop will not be the salvation of the Canadian airline industry...it would be a very bad thing.

[sanjet]

Direct entry Capt openings.

6087992A-CF72-4FD9-8951-B16087713546.jpeg (209.69 KiB) Viewed 4108 times

[plhought]

We're in Canada dough-heads. I assume you pay in Canadian Dollars?

[goingnowherefast]

Hahaha, pay would be a little less embarrassing if they paid in USD.

Another embarrassing f--k up brought to you by swoop!

[ahramin]

Not to mention the plural of Benjamin is Benjamins, not Benjamin's. How do you end up hiring people for written communications who can't read and write?

[FICU]

Surely Sunwing is great for many pilots that have chosen to work there. No two people like the same thing. I only use stats, as non-emotional as it gets. Is it not true that many Sunwing pilots have left for Swoop? What's their reasoning?

F/Os going for minimum left seat time then get the hell out, probably overseas? We lost a 737 Skipper to Swoop... you tell us why you think he'd take a massive pay cut and work twice as hard in a pink plane.

[goingnowherefast]

Some are expecting swoop to be dismantled and rolled back into mainline WJ. Meaning any pilots working for swoop would become WJ pilots.

That's one hell of a risk to go as far as actually accepting the swoop job though.

[cloak]

That logic does not check out in any way shape or form. Do you think the legacy carriers in the states get better raises because new ULCC's with sub par conditions and wages show up? Nope it actually comes from the other carriers of equal importance getting bigger raises. AA gets raise... United gets raise... Delta goes back to the top. ...

That was my point as well that it is actually Air Canada that has and continue to bring down the wages for pilots in particular, other (carriers) have simply responded. It was the one that started Sky Regional that almost bankrupted Jazz. It extended the probationary pay from one to two and then to four years, which also caused Transat and WestJet to lower their initial pay. And then it started Rouge causing WestJet to respond by Swoop. In an attempt to lower its costs, Air Canada continues to chase the lower end of the market. This is fundamentally flawed because by design, the largest airline cannot possibly expect to have the lowest cost in the industry to make money, it has to use its vast network and resources to do that. That is the root cause of the problem.

[Hangry]

That logic does not check out in any way shape or form. Do you think the legacy carriers in the states get better raises because new ULCC's with sub par conditions and wages show up? Nope it actually comes from the other carriers of equal importance getting bigger raises. AA gets raise... United gets raise... Delta goes back to the top. ...

That was my point as well that it is actually Air Canada that has and continue to bring down the wages for pilots in particular, other (carriers) have simply responded. It was the one that started Sky Regional that almost bankrupted Jazz. It extended the probationary pay from one to two and then to four years, which also caused Transat and WestJet to lower their initial pay. And then it started Rouge causing WestJet to respond by Swoop. In an attempt to lower its costs, Air Canada continues to chase the lower end of the market. This is fundamentally flawed because by design, the largest airline cannot possibly expect to have the lowest cost in the industry to make money, it has to use its vast network and resources to do that. That is the root cause of the problem.

Rouge is a ULCC? I thought you had more credibility than that.

Rouge is actually a response to WJ’s LCC. WJ.

[cloak]

Read again and read the whole thing! Air Canada started Rouge which caused WestJet to respond by Swoop. Air Canada constantly chases the lower end of the market creating new carriers and pitting the smaller carriers against one another in order to drive down the bid for CPA for instance.

[goingnowherefast]

Swoop was a response to Flair (and an attempt to circumvent ALPA, either coincidental or intentional).

WJ is a LLC running a ULCC on the side
AC is a legacy carrier running a LCC on the side.

Comparing AC to WJ is like comparing American Airlines to a bastardized Southwest.

[iflyroads]

Rouge was started as a response to Transat.

[DropTanks]

.

[Tdicommuter]

That logic does not check out in any way shape or form. Do you think the legacy carriers in the states get better raises because new ULCC's with sub par conditions and wages show up? Nope it actually comes from the other carriers of equal importance getting bigger raises. AA gets raise... United gets raise... Delta goes back to the top. ...

That was my point as well that it is actually Air Canada that has and continue to bring down the wages for pilots in particular, other (carriers) have simply responded. It was the one that started Sky Regional that almost bankrupted Jazz. It extended the probationary pay from one to two and then to four years, which also caused Transat and WestJet to lower their initial pay. And then it started Rouge causing WestJet to respond by Swoop. In an attempt to lower its costs, Air Canada continues to chase the lower end of the market. This is fundamentally flawed because by design, the largest airline cannot possibly expect to have the lowest cost in the industry to make money, it has to use its vast network and resources to do that. That is the root cause of the problem.

It is interesting that the only thing you chose to cherry pick of my critique was likely what you tell yourself daily "air Canada bad.... Swoop good".

You are however making yourself a hypocrite in that what you are being critical of Air Canada for driving down wages.... You yourself are trying to convince others to take sub par wages and conditions for a seniority number which we know costs WestJet nothing...

You have played your hand and are showing a pair of twos... Time to fold... Admit you took the job for the "Benjamin's" because it was better than riding at Georgian... Except those guys got a jazz seniority number... So maybe it wasn't?

Anyways the only way these crummy operations get their wings is when people agree to fly....sky regional founded on pissed off 60 year olds with too much alimony to stop after forced retirement at AC. Swoop... Born on people like you... Who had a job.... And thought... Well I don't really care about the f/O's starting and what their careers look like... Or where the tails came from... It's better than what I'm doing now and if I jump high enough I might get a pay uplift for training.

So the reality is. Own your stuff. Be a man (woman?) And say... Swoop sucks... If it folds I'll be safe... The hundreds of front line/mid level people will lose their jobs... But I helped this happen and I will be fine.

OWN YOUR STUFF!!!

[cloak]

Wow, way too much assumption and the fact is you have no idea what you're talking about.

[cloak]

One other thought, AC pilots can sign a petition asking the company to lift the 4 year probationary pay. Whether it happens or not is a different question, but at least make the gesture! Perhaps WS pilots can then show up at AC AGM to return the favour. That would be "OWNING YOUR STUFF", wouldn't it?!

[Rupert.Pupkin]

Could you imagine being a Swoop pilot...