Interim bid out

[Victory]

I'd imagine it's also a bit embarrassing being among the worst paid WB FOs in the world.

I'd imagine it is THE lowest paying WB FO job in the world. There's no where else paying the equivalent of $40k USD on wide-body aircraft including third world countries.

[mixturerich]

I'd imagine it's also a bit embarrassing being among the worst paid WB FOs in the world.

I'd imagine it is THE lowest paying WB FO job in the world. There's no where else paying the equivalent of $40k USD on wide-body aircraft including third world countries.

Not all about pay though, you have to think about working conditions, benefits, stability, cost of living, and living in Canada which is arguably one of the best if not the best country in the world.

[goingnowherefast]

You're right Canada is fantastic, flight and duty regs among the worst in the world too...plus our astronaut friend is doing as little as possible to fix it.

I'd buy the argument for stability, working conditions, cost of living, etc. if the pay was slightly below average, but we're talking several times below average. Vancouver isn't as expensive as Hong Kong, but not buying a Ferrari either like your companions in Dubai.

[JohnnyHotRocks]

I'd imagine it's also a bit embarrassing being among the worst paid WB FOs in the world.

I'd imagine it is THE lowest paying WB FO job in the world. There's no where else paying the equivalent of $40k USD on wide-body aircraft including third world countries.

Not all about pay though, you have to think about working conditions, benefits, stability, cost of living, and living in Canada which is arguably one of the best if not the best country in the world.

Bwahahahahahahaha good one!

[ZBBYLW]

WB FO, even junior isn't bad at all. But a new hire at the bottom would move up that list very slow as senior guys drop in.

I beg to differ. I think being very junior ML WB FO is one of the worse jobs we have. The only thing that makes it palatable is either formula pay, or SJS (for those select pilots who care about that).

You can plan in 20+ days in the summer. Usually with a red eye outbound. Losing 4-6 nights of sleep a month. Work every weekend and no end in sight as senior guys slide in above you. As an RP yes some of the very junior guys will work a lot (due to a DH one way) but the worst of the flying is isolated to a smaller % of guys.

767 Rouge guys do okay as with socialized bidding and a 16 day cap, you generally will get flying that suits you.

Juniority is a right of passage at AC. Senior guys want to protect their way of life, and its you who gets to pay for that. Many of them want to get ride of rouge, heaven forbid a junior guy gets to spend time with his family.

[cloak]

If Air Canada wants to fix its crewing problem (and help the profession in the process), all it is has to do is to cancel the 4 year probationary pay. How can one be on probation for 4 long years?! Not even at NASA!!

[Hangry]

So says the kool aid addict that supports 320 wages to fly 87’s in the name of competition.

[bcflyer]

If Air Canada wants to fix its crewing problem (and help the profession in the process), all it is has to do is to cancel the 4 year probationary pay. How can one be on probation for 4 long years?! Not even at NASA!!

What crewing problem would that be? Air Canada doesn’t see a problem as they don’t care who flies which airplane. They will simply fill the positions with new hires. It’s been done before.

As for probation, while I agree that’s it’s ridiculous, there is no shortage of pilots applying so why should they change it? Having low paid pilots in traditionally high paying positions actually gives them an advantage over the competition.
This is a business. A/C is here to make money, period. They are not here to improve the piloting profession. That job falls to the pilots. The sooner we start figuring that out the better off we’ll be.

[Inverted2]

They don’t have a crewing problem. They could pay less for new hires and still have pilots jumping over each other for a job. They have Jazz covered too with the 60% agreement.

[mixturerich]

I'd imagine it is THE lowest paying WB FO job in the world. There's no where else paying the equivalent of $40k USD on wide-body aircraft including third world countries.

Not all about pay though, you have to think about working conditions, benefits, stability, cost of living, and living in Canada which is arguably one of the best if not the best country in the world.

Bwahahahahahahaha good one!

If you don’t like it here why don’t you just leave? Where else would you rather go? I’d move to Australia but that’s about it. There’s a reason Canada has so many immigrants. It’s a great place to be. Not sure what more you could want. Most Canadians I know working at AC are pretty damn happy.

[cloak]

...
As for probation, while I agree that’s it’s ridiculous, there is no shortage of pilots applying so why should they change it? Having low paid pilots in traditionally high paying positions actually gives them an advantage over the competition.
This is a business. A/C is here to make money, period. They are not here to improve the piloting profession. That job falls to the pilots. The sooner we start figuring that out the better off we’ll be.

At least this part is honest. Some people tend to think their "sugar" don't stink!

[groundpilot]

If Air Canada wants to fix its crewing problem (and help the profession in the process), all it is has to do is to cancel the 4 year probationary pay. How can one be on probation for 4 long years?! Not even at NASA!!

You are confusing your facts.

It is a 4 years flat pay system which matches WJ pay. Probation is 1 year.

Yes, you would be a low paid wide body FO.

But at least we have the RP option and lots of narrowbody captain positions available which WJ does not.

Oh plus we have a pension, a true global network to travel on, a more defined future, more than 4 787s, retirements, and we dont pick up garbage

[goingnowherefast]

ACPA should be kicking up a shit storm. WB FOs on flat pay is a lot of lost dues revenue.

[JohnnyHotRocks]

If Air Canada wants to fix its crewing problem (and help the profession in the process), all it is has to do is to cancel the 4 year probationary pay. How can one be on probation for 4 long years?! Not even at NASA!!

You are confusing your facts.

It is a 4 years flat pay system which matches WJ pay. Probation is 1 year.

Yes, you would be a low paid wide body FO.

But at least we have the RP option and lots of narrowbody captain positions available which WJ does not.

Oh plus we have a pension, a true global network to travel on, a more defined future, more than 4 787s, retirements, and we dont pick up garbage

Canada has the lowest paid WB FOs in the world. The system is broken. We need to look in the mirror and stop defending it.

[Old fella]

Not that I know very much about this issue,mind you but I don’t ever remember AC having difficulties filling pilot seats despite the initial wage structure. From what I have been reading here pilots at WJ, Encore, Swoop, Porter , Expats et al seem to think AC is a good bet. Not to mention AC’s own source of flight crew from Jazz and the lot. However, I stand to be corrected.

[Tdicommuter]

If Air Canada wants to fix its crewing problem (and help the profession in the process), all it is has to do is to cancel the 4 year probationary pay. How can one be on probation for 4 long years?! Not even at NASA!!

You are confusing your facts.

It is a 4 years flat pay system which matches WJ pay. Probation is 1 year.

Yes, you would be a low paid wide body FO.

But at least we have the RP option and lots of narrowbody captain positions available which WJ does not.

Oh plus we have a pension, a true global network to travel on, a more defined future, more than 4 787s, retirements, and we dont pick up garbage

Canada has the lowest paid WB FOs in the world. The system is broken. We need to look in the mirror and stop defending it.

Norwegian pays their CAPTAINS... 7490 GBP per month.
That's 12 168.96 CAD a month. They also get zero overtime.

Emirates guys get paid nicely... They also only get paid for time in the seat... Bunk time doesn't count.

The system sucks right now but at least I'm not a second class citizen in a foreign country, getting worked to death, for a little more money.

The other problem that should be addressed is keeping more of what I make. #sendtrudeauhome

[schnitzel2k3]

If Air Canada wants to fix its crewing problem (and help the profession in the process), all it is has to do is to cancel the 4 year probationary pay. How can one be on probation for 4 long years?! Not even at NASA!!

You are confusing your facts.

It is a 4 years flat pay system which matches WJ pay. Probation is 1 year.

Yes, you would be a low paid wide body FO.

But at least we have the RP option and lots of narrowbody captain positions available which WJ does not.

Oh plus we have a pension, a true global network to travel on, a more defined future, more than 4 787s, retirements, and we dont pick up garbage

Canada has the lowest paid WB FOs in the world. The system is broken. We need to look in the mirror and stop defending it.

I like how he justified flat pay because it matches WJ. WJ is a LCC and should not be the beacon of guidance when it comes to working conditions.

As has been discussed many times over, those captain bids are out there for a reason, and it's not because they are attractive. They are sucker holes.

S.

[schnitzel2k3]

Not that I know very much about this issue,mind you but I don’t ever remember AC having difficulties filling pilot seats despite the initial wage structure. From what I have been reading here pilots at WJ, Encore, Swoop, Porter , Expats et al seem to think AC is a good bet. Not to mention AC’s own source of flight crew from Jazz and the lot. However, I stand to be corrected.

No, they certainly don't have trouble filling seats. Must be nice being the only legacy carrier within a country and also be provided with government protections so that they can artificially define a wage structure that suppresses wage growth over an entire industry.

Then have said pilots defend it with the fact that the only 2 good things during their careers are retirement from AC and flight benies in the offseason during said retirement.

S.

[cloak]

If Air Canada wants to fix its crewing problem (and help the profession in the process), all it is has to do is to cancel the 4 year probationary pay. How can one be on probation for 4 long years?! Not even at NASA!!

You are confusing your facts.

It is a 4 years flat pay system which matches WJ pay. Probation is 1 year.

Yes, you would be a low paid wide body FO.

But at least we have the RP option and lots of narrowbody captain positions available which WJ does not.

Oh plus we have a pension, a true global network to travel on, a more defined future, more than 4 787s, retirements, and we dont pick up garbage

Your assertions are incorrect.
First Air Canada increased their flat probationary pay period from 0ne to four years, and AFTER WestJet and Transat introduced lower pay for the first TWO years. WestJet's (and Transat's) lower introductory pay which is for two years and not four years came in response to Air Canada's four year lower pay.

At any rate, to each their own. If there are pilots that are willing to take these low-paying jobs (often with a pay-cut) at Air Canada, at the very least don't criticize others for taking other jobs that may not be paying as high as you would like, but they are still much higher pay than Air Canada's first 4 years pay, because that would be... well hypocritical!

[Dry Guy]

very junior ML WB FO is one of the worse jobs we have.

Everybody's different. I get worn out just thinking about doing more than one sector a day. How many do you do in a typical NB pairing?