Central Mountain Air weekly job ad...

[Laguardia]

Just thought i'd point this out... CMA has been constantly posting a job ad every 1 to 3 weeks for the last couple months. I can only imagine that the job section gets filled quite quickly so ads get deleted eventually, meaning CMA has been posting at a constant rate for a while now



What gives? Is it that hard to find qualified guys?

Also for what it's worth, if you look in the job posting from Feb 2014 (which somehow is still around), they're requirements are the exact same as today

[JVader]

I dont want to live in Smithers is a big factor..

[propfeather]

I'd enjoy living in Smithers but they need some serious pay and schedule improvements from what I hear.

[the AK]

They have added 3 or 4 more Dash 8's to the fleet with more coming from what we have heard. To be honest I am not even sure how many we have now, seems like a new one shows up every week.

No one knows why they are bringing them online. The brass doesn't bother to tell us this. But what we do know is that the working environment has turned into a complete nightmare. Take a company that on a good day is completely disorganized and add more variables. They don't have enough crews for the planes and the ones they do have are working under brutal schedules limping new (to the company) planes around. The company is its own worst enemy because it is such a mess.

Three years ago the amount of CYYC maintenance people we had working the floor between the two shifts was 34. Now with a ton more airplanes they are down to 12. They are being asked to do more with less. Now you may think that the company was proactive and offering something to acknowledge the hard work. Nope! They are still messing around with peoples vacation and just nickel and dime-ing them to death. I literally heard a manager from Smithers say "There just aren't any AME's anymore". They are in such an echo chamber that they can't entertain the idea that perhaps the working environment that they have created isn't that appealing for what is being offered. And of course people are quitting at a steady pace which just puts more pressure on those remaining and they in turn start looking for work else where. And thus a feed back loop is created.

It is the same story for the pilots only for different reasons. These planes are being brought on to the OC are all old dash 8 100's. I flew one the other day and looked at the journey log and the thing had 60 some thousand hours with just over 68 000 cycles! Now one would think the plane might have some teething problems and we should nurse it along until the snags get worked out. Nope! Not good old CMA. In typical CMA zero common sense management they put these Dash's on a 6 day pairing AWAY FROM ANY MAINTENCE BASE. It NEVER sees a maintence person for 6 days straight. And then they pressure the pilots to fly them when they break down. This complete lack of any common sense is prevalent at every level of the corporate structure coupled with complete disorganization. A crew showed up at the hanger to do a flight test on one of the Dash's and no one could find the C of A. It just disappeared. Gone.

We had an internal memo come out and it was concerned with OTP. The on time performance on charters is 90 some percent where as for the sked is 72%. Now it's the same pilot group on both but the difference is on charters those pilots aren't relying as heavily on the company structure. Instead operating out of various FBO's. A pilot flying the sked has to fight the company itself just to try to get the flight out on time.

True to form the company hasn't increased the pay or improved the schedule to attract pilots. Management sits in Smithers and must just think that pilots are extinct.

CMA - The impossibility of reason

[MZUNGO]

Three years ago the amount of CYYC maintenance people we had working the floor between the two shifts was 34. Now with a ton more airplanes they are down to 12. They are being asked to do more with less. Now you may think that the company was proactive and offering something to acknowledge the hard work. Nope! They are still messing around with peoples vacation and just nickel and dime-ing them to death. I literally heard a manager from Smithers say "There just aren't any AME's anymore". They are in such an echo chamber that they can't entertain the idea that perhaps the working environment that they have created isn't that appealing for what is being offered. And of course people are quitting at a steady pace which just puts more pressure on those remaining and they in turn start looking for work else where. And thus a feed back loop is created.

CMA - The impossibility of reason

the same with YVR. last year all of the D-8 experience walked out the door. and had to be replaced with much more expensive contractors. one story I heard from one of the guys that left is, they got 3 Dash-8's on top of the several 1900's but didn't hire any more people. then the cherry on the cake was that they were giving the maintenance guys shit for not grooming the planes good enough. he said that they were spending 6 hours grooming planes on the shift and only had about 3 for actual maintenance.

sounds like a terrible work environment.

[the AK]

I can confirm that the story is true. FA's were complaining about the state of the cabin. CMA management in it's infinite wisdom put 3 Dash 8's in Vancouver but didn't bother to hire any groomers.

[co-joe]

Kinda glad they ghosted me after the interview.

[77W]

In typical CMA zero common sense management they put these Dash's on a 6 day pairing AWAY FROM ANY MAINTENCE BASE. It NEVER sees a maintence person for 6 days straight. And then they pressure the pilots to fly them when they break down.

You could just write the defect in the log book as required by the CARs and make them fix it? Just remember it's your license on the line and the company will just say "we trained them properly blah blah blah" and hang you out to dry if something were to happen or TC ramped you.

[Plane_sight]

What gives? Is it that hard to find qualified guys?

With what they pay captains I would expect it to be quite challenging to fill those seats with anyone other than internal applicants.

As for FOs, their ramp & dispatch depts used to be full of them, so it's baffling as to why they continue to include FOs in the job ads. With the ever-present surplus of 200-hr pilots, I'm sure they still have some eagerly awaiting their chance to move from the ground to the flight line.

Management sits in Smithers and must just think that pilots are extinct.

Hilarious!

[the AK]

We do write the snags in the book. But you are still going to get a phone call from management asking why you didn't "fly it to XYZ airport". Plus they will never send maintenance to fix it. They will just get a ferry permit.

They don't fill the FO spots with dispatchers so much anymore because the high turnover makes it a HUGE brain drain out of dispatch.

Trust me you dodged a huge bullet having them not call you. Count yourself very fortunate!

[RILEY]

For the amount of posts they put out I don’t see any new pilots coming online.... at least nothing planned for September. They are hiring guys right out of BCIT though so those requirements don’t reflect the reality of the candidates they are taking a look at.

[fixnfly]

Yea seems like a pretty disorganized place to be. I had a friend on the Dornier out of YYC that quit 4 months ago. At the time, they had 3 First officers including him and 1 Captain for 3 Dorniers. The chief pilot was trying to help out part time with the line flying but it just wasn't working out. They weren't trying very hard to find new pilots either but maybe that's changed since then.

[Phlyer]

Holy crap that is crazy.
Thanks guys for sharing your insights.

[Laguardia]

Ok so here's what i've gathered from all the different posts

- They are severely short on pilots
- They are disorganized
- They pay relatively low compared to the competition
- They have perfect candidates in dispatch, yet they still can't/don't fill the FO positions because the high turnover makes it a HUGE brain drain
- They do hire guys right out of BCIT, so the 1000 hour min for FOs isn't exactly accurate

So if they are hiring candidates right out of BCIT, why not hire them into dispatch and promote the dispatchers to flight line? Why not continuously hire into the dispatch and move the dispatchers into flight line? At least that way they somewhat solve the "FO shortage". Are the dispatchers real dispatchers with a license, or are they "flight followers" whom they just call "dispatcher"?

I'm so confused...

[the AK]

They want 1000 hours for the FO's on the 705 aircraft. Under 1000 hours I think they put them on the 1900's. It takes about 3 months for a dispatcher to become useful in that position. There are only two licensed dispatchers and the rest are under the supervision of those. The problem is that they were hiring dispatchers just to turn around and have to put them on the flight line. Which is great for those lower time pilots but not so great for the operation because it just leads to a mess in dispatch. The company tried to get away from hiring pilots as dispatchers because of this but got caught in a typical catch 22. No one wants to move to YYD to work a terrible job for terrible pay as a dispatcher but they don't want to put pilots in that position because they won't be there long enough. Welcome to CMA

[Choppermech1986]

There's a bit of misinformation above but I won't bother addressing it, I'll just give my 2c.

The training is top notch, the iron is well kept (although it seems the new Dash 8's have a few squawks to work through), the flight benefits are fantastic, the team are mostly great value and the Chief Pilot isn't a company shill. They seem to pay par for the course yet struggle to keep experienced Captains but that may have something to do with the massive pilot shortage across the world at the moment.

It's not all rosy but they're in the top three aviation employers I've had (and with 15 years in aviation, I've had a few)

Don't let a few squeaky wheels on AvCanada put you off from making a considered decision.

YMMV.

[77W]

We do write the snags in the book. But you are still going to get a phone call from management asking why you didn't "fly it to XYZ airport". Plus they will never send maintenance to fix it. They will just get a ferry permit.

1 - Management shouldn't be calling asking why you aren't flying an aircraft with an open problem on it. If they are, start recording your phone calls and refer them to the appropriate section in your company operations manual regarding airworthiness.

2 - Ferry permits attract attention from TC and eventually your problems will be solved.

[the AK]

Or just start looking for a different job

[GhostRider6]

They had a bunch of qualified Dash AME’s, groomers and Pilots ... you name it .. until they folded up Hawkair.. lease returned the aircraft then picked them up again from avmax with the “ Hawk” removed from the tail.... but with the same paint scheme ...

Now they’re looking for Dash pilots and AME’s again ... Hahahha Hahahha Have Fun!

[UnderRDR]

//////I

[BleedAirValve]

As a current CMA 1900 FO in Calgary, i will offer some insight in to things and try and clear up some confusion from a few of the above posts.

I will start by saying that every company - big and small - have there own set of unique challenges in this environment. CMA is no different. Yes our wages could be higher and brought in to line with other carriers of similar sizes and yes our schedules could be a touch better but they really aren’t that back. We are rostered for 18 days per month which includes a mixture of reserve and flying - the rest are hard days off. We used to have a low time program for pilots that didn’t meet the minimum requirements for a direct entry position but that program has been scrapped as of January 2019. The last pilot in the program moved on to another company in a non flying role.

With regards to management, and this is based solely on MY experience in dealing with them; they have a very open door policy. You can call the President, Ops Manager, CP at any time to discuss anything with them. They are always warm and welcome to new ideas and I believe they are trying to change the company for the better. We have new initiatives coming online this year and in to next and that should be seen and a change for the better. CMA is a calculated company and one that has always been very cautious about changes because over the course of history CMA has carved out a niche with their flying and any changes that could affect that or its stability are thought through carefully. Do we have issues - yes! Are we perfect - no. I would challenge any of you to find a perfect company with no issues.

On the topic of the Dash8’s - I would say that the introduction of the 8’s in to the fleet probably hasn’t gone as smoothly as they would have liked. The airplanes are old yes and they do have some gremlins that need to be worked out but over time, these will get sorted out and life will go on. Remember that these airplanes have - in some cases - been sitting for a while. They do have high cycle times and high hours but our maintenance team is great and they wouldn’t sign off on an aircraft of it wasn’t airworthy. Remember that AME’s have licenses too that would be in jeopardy if something were to go wrong. As far as deferred maintenance items go on the 8’s and the 1900’s go - they are just that...deferred. We operate on a TC approved MEL ( as do all of you) that dictate the operation restrictions and time allowed to have the item rectified. Simple as that! The aircraft aren’t unsafe or not airworthy so the hyperbole here is amazing.

CMA regularly posts jobs ads to keep the closet full of resumes and because at this point in time, there is a need to fill some seats. Some folks on the 1900 will be going on to the Dash 8’s - creating some openings on the 1900. Once the 737 Max’s are back online and the hiring starts again at AC and WJ - this will kick start the hiring from the regionals and tier 3 operators which will in turn create holes for us. I actually think it’s smart to keep your hiring pool full for when this happens.

On the training side - all ground schools are in-house and flight training is conducted in simulators in Seattle or Vancouver. Sometimes there is wing training but that is kept to a minimum.

Lastly on the topic of morale at the Company. I can only speak for the Calgary base but morale is great! We have a great group in Calgary that works hard and does what it can to get the job done. I am not sure about the maintenance side of the house as I am only speaking of flight ops but everyone I speak to seems happy. Could we use more AME’s - yes - but who couldn’t?

Again, these are my two cents from the above comments and with that, I can tell you that we are not perfect and management could do things differently but overall; it’s a great place to work with some awesome people. If you are looking to work for a great company with decent maintenance and well kept airplanes, then apply! I don’t think you’d regret it - I didn’t.

[Laguardia]

CMA regularly posts jobs ads to keep the closet full of resumes and because at this point in time, there is a need to fill some seats. Some folks on the 1900 will be going on to the Dash 8’s - creating some openings on the 1900. Once the 737 Max’s are back online and the hiring starts again at AC and WJ - this will kick start the hiring from the regionals and tier 3 operators which will in turn create holes for us. I actually think it’s smart to keep your hiring pool full for when this happens.

AC is continuously hiring as they have hundreds of vacancies (or so I am told by those working there) and so is WJ... As for as I know, Jazz is continuously hiring as well and I think Encore too...

I'm sure that CMA gets applications even without having to post a job ad every 1-3 weeks. It seems desperate when you're company is posting this often (in my opinion at least)

Also, why did they scrap the ground to flight line program? Seems like that was a decent way to get some FOs in the right seat, even if it meant training new hires more often in the ramp/dispatch department

[BleedAirValve]

Don’t quote me on this but I think the program was discontinued because they want to have more qualified dispatchers in place. The program serves its purpose and produced many great pilots

As to why we post continually - beats me and I don’t this it's out of desperation but totally understand your opinion on the optics

[77W]

As a current CMA 1900 FO in Calgary, i will offer some insight in to things and try and clear up some confusion from a few of the above posts.

I will start by saying that every company - big and small - have there own set of unique challenges in this environment. CMA is no different. Yes our wages could be higher and brought in to line with other carriers of similar sizes and yes our schedules could be a touch better but they really aren’t that back. We are rostered for 18 days per month which includes a mixture of reserve and flying - the rest are hard days off. We used to have a low time program for pilots that didn’t meet the minimum requirements for a direct entry position but that program has been scrapped as of January 2019. The last pilot in the program moved on to another company in a non flying role.

With regards to management, and this is based solely on MY experience in dealing with them; they have a very open door policy. You can call the President, Ops Manager, CP at any time to discuss anything with them. They are always warm and welcome to new ideas and I believe they are trying to change the company for the better. We have new initiatives coming online this year and in to next and that should be seen and a change for the better. CMA is a calculated company and one that has always been very cautious about changes because over the course of history CMA has carved out a niche with their flying and any changes that could affect that or its stability are thought through carefully. Do we have issues - yes! Are we perfect - no. I would challenge any of you to find a perfect company with no issues.

On the topic of the Dash8’s - I would say that the introduction of the 8’s in to the fleet probably hasn’t gone as smoothly as they would have liked. The airplanes are old yes and they do have some gremlins that need to be worked out but over time, these will get sorted out and life will go on. Remember that these airplanes have - in some cases - been sitting for a while. They do have high cycle times and high hours but our maintenance team is great and they wouldn’t sign off on an aircraft of it wasn’t airworthy. Remember that AME’s have licenses too that would be in jeopardy if something were to go wrong. As far as deferred maintenance items go on the 8’s and the 1900’s go - they are just that...deferred. We operate on a TC approved MEL ( as do all of you) that dictate the operation restrictions and time allowed to have the item rectified. Simple as that! The aircraft aren’t unsafe or not airworthy so the hyperbole here is amazing.

CMA regularly posts jobs ads to keep the closet full of resumes and because at this point in time, there is a need to fill some seats. Some folks on the 1900 will be going on to the Dash 8’s - creating some openings on the 1900. Once the 737 Max’s are back online and the hiring starts again at AC and WJ - this will kick start the hiring from the regionals and tier 3 operators which will in turn create holes for us. I actually think it’s smart to keep your hiring pool full for when this happens.

On the training side - all ground schools are in-house and flight training is conducted in simulators in Seattle or Vancouver. Sometimes there is wing training but that is kept to a minimum.

Lastly on the topic of morale at the Company. I can only speak for the Calgary base but morale is great! We have a great group in Calgary that works hard and does what it can to get the job done. I am not sure about the maintenance side of the house as I am only speaking of flight ops but everyone I speak to seems happy. Could we use more AME’s - yes - but who couldn’t?

Again, these are my two cents from the above comments and with that, I can tell you that we are not perfect and management could do things differently but overall; it’s a great place to work with some awesome people. If you are looking to work for a great company with decent maintenance and well kept airplanes, then apply! I don’t think you’d regret it - I didn’t.

I think you sound like a manager or are literally too naive to see what the captains are dealing with.

[BleedAirValve]

@77W - nope — not a manager at all. I do see what’s going on but the picture that’s being painted isn’t accurate. Grated there are those that have quit or been terminated that come on here and hide behind their usernames and paint an unfair image of the company.