Air Canada Pay

[schnitzel2k3]

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[schnitzel2k3]

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[Sharklasers]

An observation from this old codger. Why do chaps make comments on Air Canada’s salary structure when they (a) do not work at that airline (b) explicitly imply they have no desire to do so.

Insecurity, I assume. Using pay and schedule as an example, a corporate pilot should STFU about how good they have it because that helps keep their own position more valuable as those around them leave for airlines. I hope it’s not a call for others to join their own martyrdom as a means of effecting a change, because that ain’t happening for a while.

A lot of these loud mouths are just trying to reenforce their own bias and feel the need to continually assure themselves that they made the right decision and it’s everyone else that’s wrong instead. Have flown 703 to 604 and then Regional to mainline I would say generally those guys are the absolute worst to fly with because they usually are as preachy in the plane as they are on the message board.

There has been many a quiet nights in the right seat when a guy like schnitzel launch’s into his “I could have worked for Air Canada and been a 777 Captain right now but I told them where to go! And here’s why I was right and you should too...”

The facts are what they are, flat pay isn’t great, it should be fixed.
In my first year I made 70800, 79000 in year 2, 90200 in year 3 and year 4 will be over 210k. I don’t do any draft and I am including the profit share and crew cycle expenses. My vacation is my own, not dictated by when the plane is broken. I am not surgically attached to my cell phone. I have a fully funded pension separate from company control that will offer me an extremely comfortable retirement. I have excellent benefits fully paid for by the company and the protection of a union. I am not going to get fired because I didn’t pick up the owners mistresses dry cleaning or buy the wrong mayonnaise. There are probably 0 corporate pilots in Canada that make what a AC 777 makes and probably close to 0 that make what a A320 captain in his or her third year on property makes. I am not talking about schintzels voodoo magic corporate hourly rate calculation for his pay either
“Average charter 605 Captain - average junior captain 130,000, @ 250 hr / annum = 520 / hr. Per diems are typically between 75-90 USD per day and not included in salary.”
25-30 year old Year 3 A320 captain 200k cash in the bank.


The fact is we are getting lots of great applicants from around the world, A380 and 777 captains and have a large backlog of applicants. HR will not miss an one opinionated chartright challenger driver. If you don’t like AC and never want to work for AC why are all your posts about AC schnitzel? We all agree with you that flat pay sucks, we didn’t vote for it, we are actively trying to fix it. There are a lot of things in our contract that should be improved but AC is a great job in the landscape of Canadian aviation and I challenge anyone who disagrees to look at the facts.

[Daniel Cooper]

I believe that is the truth for you Schnitzel but many AC pilots are forced to listen to their friends and acquaintances go through some kind of weird coping mechanism to justify why it's a good thing they never applied, or did and got PFO'd. So we tend to automatically tune out when someone starts explaining why their job is better than AC, even though I'm sure there are plenty of examples of pilots have found jobs that are better for them. So live your life with no regrets and don't look back and don't second guess yourself or it will make you very unhappy.

[MRP]

If you don’t like the pay scale, don’t apply. Simple as that. If you can do better somewhere else then go do that and good for you. If you tried AC and were rejected, try again or move on and try something else. I don’t understand the sense of entitlement among pilots. No one owes you @#$! all in life, you have to go get what you want, take your own risks and live with the results of your choices.

[altiplano]

Hahahahahaha.

Glad I won't see you on the line - good luck with your corporate flight department.

[cloak]

Air Canada flies the heaviest metal, has the largest fleet, and is the only flag bearing carrier in Canada. You are at the head of the Canadian industry. Every other company in Canada is pegged at Air Canada's current wage scale. What's the starting wage on any 705 machine in Canada? About the same as the starting wage at AC, minus the cargo carriers who exceed AC by about 20k for the 757/767 and remain ahead until year 5.

You guys ARE the glass ceiling. Stop copping out and blaming the smaller, less protected companies from using your horrific wages, so that you can justify not actually being payed a respectable wage for your equipment while Air Canada is in one of its most profitable periods in its history.

Do better, not just for the other guy, but for yourself. Min starting wage at AC should be closer to 100k after perusing other international carriers starting wages who operate on the same equilment on the same scale.

Shame on you for constantly blaming the smaller guys.

Well put!

Air Canada corporate has executed its master plan flawlessly, miles ahead of its pilots union in all aspects including creating Sky regional, 10 year contract, paying B787 & B777 FOs 60K, while its pilots perceive it to be other airlines' fault for not bringing the standard up! It's genius!!

[Hangry]

The second you admit WJ has done anything wrong ever you'll have an ounce of credibility cloak.

[schnitzel2k3]

I believe that is the truth for you Schnitzel but many AC pilots are forced to listen to their friends and acquaintances go through some kind of weird coping mechanism to justify why it's a good thing they never applied, or did and got PFO'd. So we tend to automatically tune out when someone starts explaining why their job is better than AC, even though I'm sure there are plenty of examples of pilots have found jobs that are better for them. So live your life with no regrets and don't look back and don't second guess yourself or it will make you very unhappy.

Certainly wasn't my intention going into this thread to explain corporate to the AC guys. A couple of them made it personal, I obliged to justify why I had to make my decision, family. I made my decisions based on short and medium term financial planning and I don't want other good prospective pilots to have to do the same, and believe the flat pay is making it difficult for many good quality candidates to commit to the application process. I love the long term career diversity at Air Canada but couldn't swallow the short term pill, it was just too much of a change for us.

My job isn't better, it's another avenue to the same venue which is retirement.

['97 Tercel]

This thread is getting weird

[schnitzel2k3]

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The goal of editing my posts is to allow this thread to return to some form of discussion regarding Air Canada pay, versus Corporate vs Air Canada, in the hopes of halting the circular arguments.

['97 Tercel]

[Ki-ll]

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The goal of editing my posts is to allow this thread to return to some form of discussion regarding Air Canada pay, versus Corporate vs Air Canada, in the hopes of halting the circular arguments.

That's too bad. It was a very interesting insight even though some people disagreed.

[schnitzel2k3]

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The goal of editing my posts is to allow this thread to return to some form of discussion regarding Air Canada pay, versus Corporate vs Air Canada, in the hopes of halting the circular arguments.

That's too bad. It was a very interesting insight even though some people disagreed.

Still lots of good insight to be had. Danield had a good post early on, and altiplano made some good points regarding benefit package changes over the last 7 years.

The point that the OP made was 4 year pay should be addressed.

[metalbusdriver]

I would be curious to know what the average Year 1 New Hire t4 would be. We know the pay rate per month and hourly rate curious how much they are actually flying in a block since they are so short. Sometimes hourly pay rate can be deceiving one way or another.

[TheStig]

The point that the OP made was 4 year pay should be addressed.

Just food for thought, what do you think would be most beneficial to new hire pilots at AC, a $20/hour bump to each of the first 4 years on the pay scale or a $20/bump to the top year (year 12)?

[PostmasterGeneral]

Each of the first 4 years of course.

[AOW]

I would be curious to know what the average Year 1 New Hire t4 would be. We know the pay rate per month and hourly rate curious how much they are actually flying in a block since they are so short. Sometimes hourly pay rate can be deceiving one way or another.

T4 covering 10 months as 1st yr FO (YYZ 320)

FCA5442F-F7E7-4EBA-8D0D-8F2C760543E3.jpeg (379.1 KiB) Viewed 5266 times

Final paystub of 2018:

25A54E9F-2B8E-4544-B562-F9A3434425D6.jpeg (534.77 KiB) Viewed 5266 times

[bearitus]

That's actually better than I expected. As someone hopefully moving to AC next year from left seat at Express I will have to work a bunch of overtime to make ends meet and pay my mortgage. Is 75-80k a year gross do-able for a first year AC FO with max overtime or am I dreaming?

[FighterPilot]

Is 75-80k a year gross do-able for a first year AC FO with max overtime or am I dreaming?

If you get on with Rouge and pick up a draft trip only once a month that would be very easy to do. Picking up a LAS turn at first year pay gets you just shy of $800 before tax. The whole OT thing is likely going to change at Rouge with the new duty rules and make it harder to pick up draft. That being said, you shouldn’t have to pick up OT to make a living wage.