Jazz vs. WestJet comparison: 1 year later

Discuss topics relating to Jazz Aviation LP.

Moderators: lilfssister, North Shore, ahramin, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, I WAS Birddog

User avatar
Green Onions
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:34 am

Re: Jazz vs. WestJet comparison: 1 year later

Post by Green Onions »

How many week of vacation a year do you max out with at WestJet?

The one thing I hear at Jazz all the time is "they work a lot harder at westjet", not sure that is true, just what I hear said a lot.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
KAG
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3602
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 11:24 pm

Re: Jazz vs. WestJet comparison: 1 year later

Post by KAG »

I think I started with 4 weeks, and max out around 6? I'll edit this later when I find out exact numbers.

The perception out there that we work harder is mainly based around our grooming the planes and relying on CARS instead of a ratified CA. We work a max of 15 or 16 days depending of 30/31-day month, and I have occasionally exceeded 14 hours due to operational reasons - you can refuse. We are given a min of 9 hours in a hotel, but that next to never happens, 10 is usual min and even that seems not common. And if ever there is fatigue issues brought up, you will NEVER be questioned. We don't do stand ups, but do a lot of red eyes. Some of our pairings are pretty insensitive to time zone changes, but that is a work in progress.

Honestly if you can “lower” yourself to pick up a few pieces of trash and cross a few seat belts, its not any harder. Just fewer rules to govern your working life around, and that does tend to scare long time union types a bit.

Truthfully I'd say we do work a bit harder, then again, we are paid better so it's all good.
---------- ADS -----------
 
The feet you step on today might be attached to the ass you're kissing tomorrow.
Chase lifestyle not metal.
User avatar
Bede
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3212
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 5:52 am

Re: Jazz vs. WestJet comparison: 1 year later

Post by Bede »

Green Onions wrote: The one thing I hear at Jazz all the time is "they work a lot harder at westjet", not sure that is true, just what I hear said a lot.
I heard that as well when I was at Jazz. I disagree. We fly the same number of days (15-16), sometimes less, but our flying is longer with rare Sophie sits. The low credit pairing have great overnights (>15 hrs).

Crossing seat belts is no big deal. We have to do security checks on US bound flights which is a big pain. Does anyone at Jazz have to do those? Ground guys perhaps?
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Scuba_Steve
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 660
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 9:10 pm

Re: Jazz vs. WestJet comparison: 1 year later

Post by Scuba_Steve »

Bede wrote:
Green Onions wrote: The one thing I hear at Jazz all the time is "they work a lot harder at westjet", not sure that is true, just what I hear said a lot.
I heard that as well when I was at Jazz. I disagree. We fly the same number of days (15-16), sometimes less, but our flying is longer with rare Sophie sits. The low credit pairing have great overnights (>15 hrs).

Crossing seat belts is no big deal. We have to do security checks on US bound flights which is a big pain. Does anyone at Jazz have to do those? Ground guys perhaps?
It's typically groomers who do that.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Max_Diff
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 2:51 pm

Re: Jazz vs. WestJet comparison: 1 year later

Post by Max_Diff »

Confused...

Could somone help explain the ESP a bit better to me. I've heard/read some pople say they get an extra 40% salary a year. The way I understand it is if you make 100K (or whatever salary) you can invest 20% yourself and the company will match that 20%. But you can't count your 20% as additonal income as it was yours in the the first place that came off your paycheck. And on the 20% the company contributed you have paid tax on it 35-45%. So assuming 100K, the 20% from the company (20K)...you will net an extra 11-12K out of that .

This is a lot better than what I get, and would love to have the same plan in place...but I am confused how a 5 yr FO can claim to make 120K without any OT or extra flights.

Am I missing something? Would love more details...

Is profir sharing seperate from this...whats an average cheque?
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Bede
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3212
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 5:52 am

Re: Jazz vs. WestJet comparison: 1 year later

Post by Bede »

ESP works like this:
You can choose to purchase stock in any amount up to 20% of your pay. The company matches 100%. This counts as taxable income so your net pay is rather low (gross income-20%-taxes on gross income+20%). In your first year, it's a bit meager, but doable (I didn't need a line of credit to live). In your second year, you can start selling ESP. I save mine for retirement, but some guys use it as extra income. If you sell all of it to live, it's like getting a 40% bump in income tax free (because you were taxed on it the year before).

WJA does ESP a smart way and purchases stock for employees. Nortel used to issue shares, which were not purchased, but created by the company for the employees. This diluted the share pool without affecting the share price because the employees didn't sell. Once the employees lost faith and started selling, the stock collapsed even faster than normal because all the shares the market hadn't accounted for were all of a sudden available for purchase.

WRT to pay, look at the pay scales. With profit sharing, restricted share units ($3000/yr) and ESP, it works out to about 1.31x your pay scale. So assuming you're a 5th year FO at $91/hr and you fly 1000hrs/yr (no OT), you will make about $91000 + ~$28500 in profit sharing, ESP and RSU's= ~$118500.

Profit share is a separate cheque with a catered party x2/yr. Even if you can't make the party, someone from mgmt is at every major airport handing out cheques with some small refreshments.

Stock options are in place of RSU's and are worth $7000. I'm not too familiar with options, so I won't comment on how they work, but it has to do with the Black Sholes value and they vest in, I think, one year and have to be sold by the third year.
---------- ADS -----------
 
FICU
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1254
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:37 am

Re: Jazz vs. WestJet comparison: 1 year later

Post by FICU »

1000 hours a year as base! You guys really do work hard!

Good on ya.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Bede
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3212
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 5:52 am

Re: Jazz vs. WestJet comparison: 1 year later

Post by Bede »

My mistake, we're actually blocked at 77.5 hrs/mo, which works out to 930.
---------- ADS -----------
 
proper
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 231
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:07 am

Re: Jazz vs. WestJet comparison: 1 year later

Post by proper »

minus the vaca and stats of course 110 hours for me.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Max_Diff
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 2:51 pm

Re: Jazz vs. WestJet comparison: 1 year later

Post by Max_Diff »

Thanks Bede. It makes a lot more sense to me now. Not a bad deal at all.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Ryan Coke2
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 144
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:45 pm

Re: Jazz vs. WestJet comparison: 1 year later

Post by Ryan Coke2 »

Just another explanation on ESP, it is an optional 20% raise. To get the extra 20% you have to defer 20% of your base pay for a year. That's a sacrifice most would consider worth it. Having said that you don't have to take the extra 20% of pay if you don't want.

I have never regretted being all in, no matter what the stock has done, and would have been down many thousands of dollars had I not stayed in.

I really enjoyed my 5 years at Jazz, but I am forever thankful I finally decided to move to WJ 8 years ago. Good luck to all who face a similar decision.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Pgripp
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:24 pm

Re: Jazz vs. WestJet comparison: 1 year later

Post by Pgripp »

Any updates on this review? I'm in the recruitment process for both Jazz and Westjet and I'm trying to collect information in order to make the right decision. If anyone has any updated information to share, great!
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
KenoraPilot
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 815
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:34 pm
Location: Alberta

Re: Jazz vs. WestJet comparison: 1 year later

Post by KenoraPilot »

Pgripp wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:26 pm Any updates on this review? I'm in the recruitment process for both Jazz and Westjet and I'm trying to collect information in order to make the right decision. If anyone has any updated information to share, great!
Encore or WJ Mainline?
---------- ADS -----------
 
plausiblyannonymous
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 206
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:35 pm

Re: Jazz vs. WestJet comparison: 1 year later

Post by plausiblyannonymous »

Pgripp wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:26 pm Any updates on this review? I'm in the recruitment process for both Jazz and Westjet and I'm trying to collect information in order to make the right decision. If anyone has any updated information to share, great!
You can take the safe route (Jazz) and get paid slightly better, get a guaranteed interview with AC, but that's it.

You can take the risky route (Encore) and get a better schedule, and a guaranteed job with mainline, but you might not keep your seniority.

It's interesting because even without the one-list, with Encore you are guaranteed a job at mainline. With Encore, you'll very likely get a job with AC as well as they like to poach Westjetters.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
C-GGGQ
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1752
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 12:33 pm

Re: Jazz vs. WestJet comparison: 1 year later

Post by C-GGGQ »

Are you still guaranteed a job at mainline? As far as I read it, flow is indefinitely on hold and with the one list voted down there is no agreement at this point.
---------- ADS -----------
 
lownslow
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1296
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:56 am

Re: Jazz vs. WestJet comparison: 1 year later

Post by lownslow »

I like how you can tell who works where just from their replies in this thread.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Rowdy
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5065
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:26 pm
Location: On Borrowed Wings

Re: Jazz vs. WestJet comparison: 1 year later

Post by Rowdy »

lownslow wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:50 am I like how you can tell who works where just from their replies in this thread.
So True!

I will add this though from my bias. Socialized bidding at Encore may appear better. It might occasionally get you closer to what you want right off the bat.. but it'll never be 'great'. However.. while seniority is very quickly getting better at Jazz offering some great schedules to people at the 1-2yr mark, theres no guarantee it'll continue on this trend. It looks like we have another year or two before a slow down happens though.

Are they still working 18-20 days a month on the teal tails?
---------- ADS -----------
 
mel gibson
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:21 pm

Re: Jazz vs. WestJet comparison: 1 year later

Post by mel gibson »

People forget about demographics.

A lot of retirements at Jazz and Air Canada in the next ten years.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Kosiw
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 619
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 4:12 pm

Re: Jazz vs. WestJet comparison: 1 year later

Post by Kosiw »

What is the average number of days worked a month at Jazz lately ?
---------- ADS -----------
 
Gravity always wins
goleafsgo
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 203
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:13 pm

Re: Jazz vs. WestJet comparison: 1 year later

Post by goleafsgo »

Kosiw wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 3:32 pm What is the average number of days worked a month at Jazz lately ?
I usually work 14-16 days/month on the classic in yyz
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “Jazz Aviation LP - Air Canada Express”