Jazz to launch pay for type rating program

[C.W.E.]

Vermont I have been thinking about your questions and remarks about throwing bags and such and looking back I guess it started in 1964 when I started bush flying in Northern Ontario on floats, before that I was flying Super Cubs, Stearmans and Piper Pawnee doing aerial application.

But for sure if you feel you can give me advice on how to be a better pilot I never turn down good advice.

[vermont]

Yeah. Because everyone stays at the low end of the Jazz scale forever. Ramp a Cessna 206 or Buffalo Joes for the rest of your life. The money is so good. Or brag about your contract day rate that you can’t just pick up any time when you need to redo a roof. I hear real estate in YZF is cheap. So is cost of living.

I've been a captain on the highest time pc12 in the world for 90 years in the north and it worked for me 90 years ago so it must be true today!

Translation: I'm too much of a tenderfoot to load my own bags and tent my own plane so my daddy had to roll fags in the village to be able to afford to buy my job therefore everyone else should do it.

Sounds like jealous is guiding what you say. Plenty of people would like to have some kind of guarantee since the music will stop eventually.

Are you unable to consider people in situations that aren't your own? If you have a partner with a good career, it'd be extremely selfish to say hey leave your friends and family and come to some rural ass town with me for an unknown time!

I couldn't imagine telling my wife to just give up on her career or do long distance for years!

[vermont]

Vermont I have been thinking about your questions and remarks about throwing bags and such and looking back I guess it started in 1964 when I started bush flying in Northern Ontario on floats, before that I was flying Super Cubs, Stearmans and Piper Pawnee doing aerial application.

But for sure if you feel you can give me advice on how to be a better pilot I never turn down good advice.

Sounds like you've had a fun and fulfilling career!

All I wanted to point out to people here is some peoples situations are different and that's often forgotten. I have no advice for you, since you sound as level headed as they get!

[daedalusx]

Sounds like jealous is guiding what you say. Plenty of people would like to have some kind of guarantee since the music will stop eventually.

Are you unable to consider people in situations that aren't your own? If you have a partner with a good career, it'd be extremely selfish to say hey leave your friends and family and come to some rural ass town with me for an unknown time!

I couldn't imagine telling my wife to just give up on her career or do long distance for years!

You don’t even have your CPL. Try focusing on that instead of that shiney jet syndrome, you might learn a thing or two from a few people who walked the walk.

Your display of ignorance and hubris will certainly make you a favourite amongst skippers. Guess what ? You might not get a local base, you might have to commute, you might have to stay 19-20 days a month on reserve in a crashpad, you might want to touch base with your wife about that.

[vermont]

Sounds like jealous is guiding what you say. Plenty of people would like to have some kind of guarantee since the music will stop eventually.

Are you unable to consider people in situations that aren't your own? If you have a partner with a good career, it'd be extremely selfish to say hey leave your friends and family and come to some rural ass town with me for an unknown time!

I couldn't imagine telling my wife to just give up on her career or do long distance for years!

You don’t even have your CPL. Try focusing on that instead of that shiney jet syndrome, you might learn a thing or two from a few people who walked the walk.

Your display of ignorance and hubris will certainly make you a favourite amongst skippers. Guess what ? You might not get a local base, you might have to commute, you might have to stay 19-20 days a month on reserve in a crashpad, you might want to touch base with your wife about that.

That Isn't really relevant. I've worked in a few fields, and I see this sort of thing a lot (it is human nature after all) Hell, pretty much everyone I know who got a degree flipped their shit when OSAP was giving bigger discounts. OMG those kids won't learn to appreciate their education if they aren't working 2 min wage jobs while trying to study. Meanwhile in the rest of the world it's pretty rare to work while going to school.

I understand there are risks like moving and I'm in no rush to a shiny jet, I'd happy fly a q400 All I'm really chasing is less uncertainty and QOL. The industry is has so many ups and downs, why would you expose yourself to more?

[goingnowherefast]

If somebody's wife has a cushy job in a big city, I bet they wouldn't be too happy about spending that much money on their husband to get a crap paying job. Especially with the risk of a possible recession and career stagnation at such a crappy pay rate.

Return on investment just isn't there.

Plus it's investmenting in your spouce to be gone in a hotel room for 1/3rd of the time and unavailable to look after the kids while she's at her cushy job making the real money.

[ayseven]

Well there r no shortcuts, and like it or not, somebody offering to give you a limo ride to the the local airport, and help you put on your sunglasses before going to work, is let's just say, pretty rare in this field. Aviation is not like any other business.

. should not even interact with people so out of it.

Actually i'm kind of annoyed now. How about going up north and doing what is necessary to become a better, more complete aviation professional? You know what bothers professional pilots? Amateurs that don't take it the job seriously, putting our lives at risk.

[C.W.E.]

. should not even interact with people so out of it.

I am optimistic ayseven, I still believe that ignorance can be cured through education.

Maybe vermont will learn through osmosis.

[ayseven]

You r ever the optimist! It is true tho, you can never give up on people.

[vermont]

Well there r no shortcuts, and like it or not, somebody offering to give you a limo ride to the the local airport, and help you put on your sunglasses before going to work, is let's just say, pretty rare in this field. Aviation is not like any other business.

. should not even interact with people so out of it.

Actually i'm kind of annoyed now. How about going up north and doing what is necessary to become a better, more complete aviation professional? You know what bothers professional pilots? Amateurs that don't take it the job seriously, putting our lives at risk.

Who the hell is .?

And If your amateur jab is pointed at me, mortgaging my own house to pay for training seems to be taking things pretty damn seriously.

There's truths in life and they are, you pay for everything (either in time or money) And the most valuable currency is time.

The Stockholm syndrome everyone has about the north is hilarious. If 250 hour FO's was "putting lives at risk" that shit would never happen in Europe where you almost need a permit to fart.

[vermont]

. should not even interact with people so out of it.

I am optimistic ayseven, I still believe that ignorance can be cured through education.

Maybe vermont will learn through osmosis.

The only thing I"m learning here, is everyone has the @#$! you I suffered so you should as well mentality that's so common these days!

[daedalusx]

Honey ! I’m home.
Good news ! I re-mortgaged the house and our kids future so I can buy a 150 000$ job that will allow me to fly a shiny jet for 40k a year.

Why yes I’ll be gone 19 days a month while you have to stay here alone, work and take care of the kids. But you’ll get to tell your friends at work that your husband works for AIR CANADA express.

Why yes I could have taken a local job on a Kingair or a PC12 that would have me be home everyday and paid twice as much but honey, on the RJ I can Instagram #propsareforboats!

Yeah I’d be more worried about Tyrone and the homeboys taking care of your old lady at this point ....

[C.W.E.]

Who the hell is .?

My real name is . . and I have been posting on Avcanada since the forum first started.

By using my real name I feel it gives my opinions and advice about flying more credibility.

The only thing I"m learning here, is everyone has the @#$! you I suffered so you should as well mentality that's so common these days!

One thing about my flying career I sure never suffered either mentally or monetarily that is for sure.

In fact by the end of my over fifty years of flying for a living I was paid very well for my time, very well.

As an example I operated a business giving advanced flying instruction and my hourly rate was 250 Euro per flight hour.

[ayseven]

Who the hell is .????? I will leave that one for once in my life. He has more flying experience on wheels, floats and flying boats, in his little finger than I, and probably you, will ever have, so his words mean something to me - and he does have a rather good vocabulary, if I may say so.

It is not a question of suffering; it is about learning to take ownership of the airplane, and intangibles that you need to see for yourself. I can tell you one thing: it was NOT suffering. If somebody does not have to, or want to, go to where they can learn more in a month, than a year in a city, well, that is their choice. Everyone has their own life path.

I can guarantee that things are learned about flying airplanes, that you won't get to see down here in the city. You might not think loading a DC 3 full of dynamite, before getting in and flying it, or knowing the weight of the most common generators used in mining camps, or that you can fit an entire moose, antlers and all, into a C206, are useful life skills, but you would be surprised. There is nobody there to help you load that drill pipe; you are on your own; then you go flying in the most beautiful scenery in the word. I have been extremely lucky to have done all that, met, and worked with such interesting people (except for the bushed miners - they could be pretty weird) and it helps you as a person to know you can count on yourself. I am beginning to feel sorry for the people who do not want that.

I do not think it is a life for older, married people, at the beginning. You need to be young and full of vigour - although Mr . seems pretty full of it these days. There is zero security, and as soon as you plan something, boom, you are off somewhere else. That IS the flying business.

[vermont]

Who the hell is .????? I will leave that one for once in my life. He has more flying experience on wheels, floats and flying boats, in his little finger than I, and probably you, will ever have, so his words mean something to me - and he does have a rather good vocabulary, if I may say so.

It is not a question of suffering; it is about learning to take ownership of the airplane, and intangibles that you need to see for yourself. I can tell you one thing: it was NOT suffering. If somebody does not have to, or want to, go to where they can learn more in a month, than a year in a city, well, that is their choice. Everyone has their own life path.

I can guarantee that things are learned about flying airplanes, that you won't get to see down here in the city. You might not think loading a DC 3 full of dynamite, before getting in and flying it, or knowing the weight of the most common generators used in mining camps, or that you can fit an entire moose, antlers and all, into a C206, are useful life skills, but you would be surprised. There is nobody there to help you load that drill pipe; you are on your own; then you go flying in the most beautiful scenery in the word. I have been extremely lucky to have done all that, met, and worked with such interesting people (except for the bushed miners - they could be pretty weird) and it helps you as a person to know you can count on yourself. I am beginning to feel sorry for the people who do not want that.

I do not think it is a life for older, married people, at the beginning. You need to be young and full of vigour - although Mr . seems pretty full of it these days. There is zero security, and as soon as you plan something, boom, you are off somewhere else. That IS the flying business.

Buddy I mean no disrespect to ., I'm just pointing out not everyone here knows people on a first name basis.

[C.W.E.]

Time as in hours flown is really not a good indication of flying experience.

The type of flying is far more important in the learning context.

After thirty thousand hours of logging time I finally just quit keeping track although the learning process never ended.

The things that stand out in my mind about flying are my years of aerial application both fixed and rotary wing which was the best part of my career.

When I look back and think about the really dangerous kinds of flying three things stand out.

First and most dangerous was flying during the Harmattan dust storms in the Sahara Desert
.
Second was white outs in the high arctic flying DC3's .

Third was the years I spent ferrying airplanes below FL180 through the ITCZ in South America and Africa.

If I had my life to live over I would choose the kind of flying I was fortunate enough to have done.

The amazing part for me was somehow I managed to get through it without ever bending an airplane, helicopter or gyroplane.

By the way gyroplanes were the most fun to fly.

[vermont]

Honey ! I’m home.
Good news ! I re-mortgaged the house and our kids future so I can buy a 150 000$ job that will allow me to fly a shiny jet for 40k a year.

Why yes I’ll be gone 19 days a month while you have to stay here alone, work and take care of the kids. But you’ll get to tell your friends at work that your husband works for AIR CANADA express.

Why yes I could have taken a local job on a Kingair or a PC12 that would have me be home everyday and paid twice as much but honey, on the RJ I can Instagram #propsareforboats!

Yeah I’d be more worried about Tyrone and the homeboys taking care of your old lady at this point ....

The syndrome is strong in you. You realize single day trips are doable at Jazz right? You realize "home every night" in a pc12 doesn't freaking count if you have to move your home to the other side of the country?

I don't have kids yet, so if I do need to build seniority for a few years and have over night trips so be it. Also if your afraid of your wife cheating on you, seems like you're very shitty at choosing a partner.

150K is a big risk, but considering making over 200k less than 10 years into your career is very doable I think it's worth the risk.

[C.W.E.]

150K is a big risk, but considering making over 200k less than 10 years into your career is very doable I think it's worth the risk.

Things must have changed since I was in the industry I can't remember many pilots getting to that pay level in less than ten years.

[Daniel Cooper]

Things must have changed since I was in the industry I can't remember many pilots getting to that pay level in less than ten years.

There are NB Captains at AC in their 20's, I've heard.

[C.W.E.]

There are NB Captains at AC in their 20's, I've heard.

That is worth going for for sure.

[ayseven]

It is still a huge financial risk. Nobody should do this for money really. They should do it for the stories.

[digits_]

It is still a huge financial risk. Nobody should do this for money really. They should do it for the stories.

I think we found the root cause of shitty pilot wages in Canada!

[ayseven]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvx0Duqy3N8


We can wish it to be different but it is so.

[vermont]

It is still a huge financial risk. Nobody should do this for money really. They should do it for the stories.

I think we found the root cause of shitty pilot wages in Canada!

I get what he's saying, if you're chasing money more than happiness you'll likely be disappointed at least for the first several years

[PostmasterGeneral]

It is still a huge financial risk. Nobody should do this for money really. They should do it for the stories.

I think we found the root cause of shitty pilot wages in Canada!

I get what he's saying, if you're chasing money more than happiness you'll likely be disappointed at least for the first several years

Wait, so you don’t even have your CPL and you’re already speaking like you’ve got a job at Jazz? Oh boy..

For what it’s worth, the “college kids” with no experience up North weren’t really “welcomed” on the line when I was there. Perhaps things have changed since.