Swoop

[piperdriver]

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/family-kicke ... -1.4750645

So not only do they treat their staff like shit but also their customers too.

[Loner]

I’d like to know the reasoning behind the Captain’s decision.

[altiplano]

Is anyone surprised?

[rookiepilot]

Winner, CAPTAIN.

You're the man, and showed that family whose boss on your aircraft.

Wear those 4 bars with pride.

[indieadventurer]

That was a call for MedLink to make.

Wouldn’t surprise me though if they didn’t subscribe to that service.

[stillflying]

You can all criticize the captain for not allowing her to fly, but it was the right move. If you cannot ascertain whether the girl is fit to fly, you don't let her fly. It is not a call for MedLink if you are at the gate... it's the call for a doctor who can actually see the girl in person.

[Gino Under]

SWOOP is poop.
LLCCs are a joke.
You get what you pay for.
Especially in Canada.
Many more incidents like this and SWOOP will be history.

Gino Under

[ant_321]

You can all criticize the captain for not allowing her to fly, but it was the right move. If you cannot ascertain whether the girl is fit to fly, you don't let her fly. It is not a call for MedLink if you are at the gate... it's the call for a doctor who can actually see the girl in person.

Assuming Swoop uses MedLink or a similar service, they absolutely will make the decision. Our procedure is to listen to what MedLink says regardless of what a Doctor says on the ground.

[stillflying]

You can all criticize the captain for not allowing her to fly, but it was the right move. If you cannot ascertain whether the girl is fit to fly, you don't let her fly. It is not a call for MedLink if you are at the gate... it's the call for a doctor who can actually see the girl in person.

Assuming Swoop uses MedLink or a similar service, they absolutely will make the decision. Our procedure is to listen to what MedLink says regardless of what a Doctor says on the ground.

If that is the case for Swoop, I would assume that the captain followed that procedure. If MedLink said that they didn't want her to fly because they couldn't confirm why she was vomiting?

[fish4life]

More importantly if your kid is sick enough to be puking maybe it’s best you delay your trip a bit and not be so selfish. The kid obviously feels like shit let them rest at home.

[ogopogo]

The medical issue aside, was the arguing over the refunds really worth it in the long run? Why do soooo many organizations do this? The bad PR is never considered. That family will never fly Swoop again, and they’ll be sure their friends know. I had the same experience with a winery who flatly refused to take their plonk back for a lousy $15. Guess who doesn’t go there anymore?
I suppose the problem is the bottom line, but short term pain for long term gain is never considered.

[Heliian]

More importantly if your kid is sick enough to be puking maybe it’s best you delay your trip a bit and not be so selfish. The kid obviously feels like shit let them rest at home.

You obviously have no experience with children. Humans vomit for many reasons, kids especially and it can happen out of the blue.

Regardless, swoop should have just quietly helped them to their destination.

Swoop is poop

[Daniel Cooper]

The medical issue aside, was the arguing over the refunds really worth it in the long run? Why do soooo many organizations do this? The bad PR is never considered. That family will never fly Swoop again, and they’ll be sure their friends know. I had the same experience with a winery who flatly refused to take their plonk back for a lousy $15. Guess who doesn’t go there anymore?
I suppose the problem is the bottom line, but short term pain for long term gain is never considered.

Most people will only ever fly Swoop once anyways. Once they have their money there is no reason to try and achieve repeat business from a passenger. That doesn't appear to be the business model.

[Slammerdoon]

The medical issue aside, was the arguing over the refunds really worth it in the long run? Why do soooo many organizations do this? The bad PR is never considered. That family will never fly Swoop again, and they’ll be sure their friends know. I had the same experience with a winery who flatly refused to take their plonk back for a lousy $15. Guess who doesn’t go there anymore?
I suppose the problem is the bottom line, but short term pain for long term gain is never considered.

Ok but consider this:

The Captain decides ok a 3 year old just threw up on the ground for unknown reasons but what the heck I'll just risk it. Then midflight she has a medical emergency.... would you want to be in that Captains position then?

[rookiepilot]

Swoop is probably no worse than most other airlines. PAX looked at as self loading cargo, not human beings. Any problems the self loading cargo has, even the little ones, kick them off.

Luckily they avoided a beating in the process, aka united.

And BTW, if you want the prestige and bucks of sitting in the captains chair, suck it up and accept the criticism when you mess up.

[Capt. Underpants]

You can all criticize the captain for not allowing her to fly, but it was the right move. If you cannot ascertain whether the girl is fit to fly, you don't let her fly. It is not a call for MedLink if you are at the gate... it's the call for a doctor who can actually see the girl in person.

I'd take the advice of a service like MedLink or Stat MD any day. They are very experienced in diagnosing fitness to fly and do so with high success and reliability. I would assume that if such a service was used, the family would have been advised accordingly.

The most disgusting part of this is a complete lack of understanding for the situation. Young children react to new experiences in different ways, including some of them who can lose their cookies. It doesn't make them unfit to travel. Would they have turned around and gone back to YHM or diverted enroute if she'd barfed during the flight? I highly doubt it. But in any case, to leave them in a lurch at Christmas and then haggle with them over compensation/ refunds is just stupid and will come back to bite Swoop in the butt, one way or another.

[Braun]

More importantly if your kid is sick enough to be puking maybe it’s best you delay your trip a bit and not be so selfish. The kid obviously feels like shit let them rest at home.

Why read the article right? It’s pretty clear the kids weren’t sick. They probably were just excited.

[North Shore]

^Perhaps/Probably. But you, and the flight crew didn't *know* that for sure. Safest for all involved is to keep them on the ground until the 'sickness' is sorted one way or another. Where SWOOP has dropped a deuce is in handling the fallout from that decision. A positive national advertising campaign would cost them into the $Millions - the cost of this Negative national advertising, what, $5k?

[Braun]

^Perhaps/Probably. But you, and the flight crew didn't *know* that for sure. Safest for all involved is to keep them on the ground until the 'sickness' is sorted one way or another. Where SWOOP has dropped a deuce is in handling the fallout from that decision. A positive national advertising campaign would cost them into the $Millions - the cost of this Negative national advertising, what, $5k?

Wasn’t commenting on the crews decision. Only the previous posters comments as to why the parents even boarded on the first place.

[altiplano]

There doesn't appear to be a medical evaluation done which, at a basic level, would have been done were it a Stat-MD/Med-Link type of organization making the call to remove them. There are paramedics in the airport, if you're concerned someone is that sick that they should be removed, why wouldn't you call them to attend?

[DirtyDashDriver]

Could this be that an FA turned around and said they would not fly with a sick passenger and the Captain's hands were tied and that's why no evaluation seemed to have been completed?

I've certainly been told in enough CRM classes that when someone decides to deny boarding, the Captain cannot override that decision. While it is always linked to the Interference with Crew Members', it is strongly hinted that it applies to all events.

[goingnowherefast]

Wouldn't the parents be aware of the child's health? Mild anxiety or excitement isn't unfit to fly as a pax.

[North Shore]

^Perhaps/Probably. But you, and the flight crew didn't *know* that for sure. Safest for all involved is to keep them on the ground until the 'sickness' is sorted one way or another. Where SWOOP has dropped a deuce is in handling the fallout from that decision. A positive national advertising campaign would cost them into the $Millions - the cost of this Negative national advertising, what, $5k?

Wasn’t commenting on the crews decision. Only the previous posters comments as to why the parents even boarded on the first place.

Sorry, man; read it incorrectly..

[200hr Wonder]

Could this be that an FA turned around and said they would not fly with a sick passenger and the Captain's hands were tied and that's why no evaluation seemed to have been completed?

I've certainly been told in enough CRM classes that when someone decides to deny boarding, the Captain cannot override that decision. While it is always linked to the Interference with Crew Members', it is strongly hinted that it applies to all events.

I would suggest that this perhaps happened. However, as a Captain, I would want a few things first. First where is your PAX assessment form and have you called MedLink? If those two are completed and under the Dr. from MedLink's advice we deplane them fine. If the Dr. says go and FA STILL won't go that's when you have a heart to heart. As in "Are you a Dr.? Are you sure you want to push this situation when a Dr. has advised it is OK for the PAX to travel?" I would bet the FA would change their mind fast. Most of the FAs at Swoop are kids themselves!

As for the re-booking, what pisses me off is situations like this where if the family had bought cancellation insurance it would have been a non event. Call the insurance company, tell them look the kid was denied boarding due to vomiting. Great your in Canada? We recommend you go to the hospital, however that's your choice. Book new tickets, and a hotel for the night as required, send us the bill. END OF STORY. If you are taking a trip and spending a lot of money on tickets perhaps the insurance is worth it! As a kid on no less than two occasions my family had to cancel trips or come home early and has used travel insurance. Once my brother woke up with an ear infection the way early AM before departure, off to the ER and a no fly from the doctor. Once Mom and Dad had to come home early form a trip to attend to a family member. Both times full reimbursement for the lost vacation or early tickets. Don't go whinging to the media just because something does not go your way when you travel.

Was Swoop's customer service shite? Absolutely, but if you have tickets to a hockey game, and don't make it or leave after 2min because your kid is sick do you expect the Canucks or Leafs to give you ones to another game? No that seat has expired. Why should an airline? If you are not willing or able to pay the insurance don't whine if you don't make it! FYI the insurance would have cost them about $80 or less than 10% of the ticket price.

[Gannet167]

I wonder if this 10 yr old had any nausia before the flight.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british- ... -1.5409910

I think a vomiting passenger is a red flag. Hamilton to Vancouver is a fairly long flight with some stretches, especially if you fly a southern route, where there isn't a lot of great airports to divert a 737 into with an emergency and have to deal with customs etc.

Stat MD etc of course should be consulted and as informed a decision as possible taken. I don't disagree with the decision to not allow her to fly. Probably a safe choice and considerate of the other people on board, and other crew who probably aren't fans of vomit or catching a norovirus and booking off for diarreah etc.

Swoop didn't need to kick the whole family off. They should've said the sick person has to go, mom or dad can accompany. Maybe fly later. Other family can keep flying. Not sure if they'd still chosen to stick together.

Had this kid gotten sick enroute, or died, we'd all be lighting the torches and gathering pitchforks to crucify the capt. "What was he thinking?! Allowing a sick passenger fly! He's responsible for her death. And all those other passengers stranded in Great Falls fighting with the one customs agent after downing all their special gummy bears. What an idiot! Whelp, there you go, that's Swoop for you!" etc. Etc.


But, honestly, as was pointed out, if you're flying with kids and there's a risk you can't, that's what insurance is for. They rolled the dice and lost. $100 in travel insurance looks like a great deal right now. Well worth getting tickets refunded, and possibly getting to YVR for holidays a day or so later.