Stuck above the clouds with no instruments

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photofly
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Re: Stuck above the clouds with no instruments

Post by photofly »

I understood the question to be an interesting puzzle asking whether and how can one configure an aircraft for a stable wings-level descent, or at least a recoverable descent, without reference to any instruments other than those posited. I certainly don't see it as a request for practical advice for a situation in which one might reasonably find oneself.
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DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
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5x5
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Re: Stuck above the clouds with no instruments

Post by 5x5 »

photofly wrote:I wonder what happens to the fuel flow to the carb in a 60-turn spin?
Funny you should ask - here's a video from wayback (2007ish) 60 Turn Spin
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photofly
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Re: Stuck above the clouds with no instruments

Post by photofly »

OK. I have two questions.

Firstly... why? And secondly, how do you fit a full symphony orchestra playing Bizet in the back of a 150?

I am more interested in the answer to the second question than the first, actually.
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DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
corethatthermal
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Re: Stuck above the clouds with no instruments

Post by corethatthermal »

It isn't the most looked at instrument but it is one of the most reliable The compass combined with ASI and throttle position will get you out of the clouds ! I will go practice that the next time i'm up there
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JL
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Re: Stuck above the clouds with no instruments

Post by JL »

The 152 ha a neat characteristic where it will maintain a constant pitch and bank attitude with flap 30, 45 degree bank angle, power at 1500 and a good amount of nose up trim. It will not wander from that attitude, hands off.
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pelmet
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Re: Stuck above the clouds with no instruments

Post by pelmet »

A bit of irony that I just came across a pilot who used a spin to get down to a lower altitude for what he perceived to be a safety reason. It was a different reason but interesting nonetheless...

It was in 1933 by a Tiger Moth pilot who later became fairly well known as seen below
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_A._Kent

He was a low time pilot more or less experimenting in the Tiger Moth and perhaps not doing the wisest of things when he somehow got a Tiger Moth to an extremely high altitude. Now he was worried about remaining fuel based on the time it would take to get down and cooling of the engine at low pow. So he did multiple spins and recoveries down to 2500'

Quite a different situation but I found it interesting. Unfortunately, there is no article on the net.
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Beefitarian
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Re: Stuck above the clouds with no instruments

Post by Beefitarian »

I know, the title specifies no instruments, but... I thought a big part of taking instrument training was to avoid stalls and spins.

Here they almost seem to be presented as some sort of cloud solution tool.
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Schooner69A
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Re: Stuck above the clouds with no instruments

Post by Schooner69A »

After six decades in aviation, you learn a few things that will save your ass. This one was passed on to me by an inebriated fighter pilot in the Snake Pit in Portage La Prairie late one Friday night. Works every time…

THE CAT & DUCK METHOD OF IFR FLYING:

Today's flight age is an era highlighted with increasing emphasis
on safety. Instrumentation in the cockpit and in the traffic
control tower has reached new peaks of electronic perfection to
assist the pilot during take-offs, flight, and landings. For
whimsical contrast to these and other marvels of scientific
flight engineering, it is perhaps opportune to remind pilots of
the basic rules concerning the so-called Cat-and-Duck Method of
Flight, just in case something goes wrong with any of these new-
fangled flying instruments you find in today's aircraft.
Place a live cat on the cockpit floor. Because a cat always
remains upright, he or she can be used in lieu of a needle and
ball. Merely watch to see which way the cat leans to determine
if a wing is low and, if so, which one.
The duck is used for the instrument approach and landing.
Because any sensible duck will refuse to fly under instrument
conditions, it is only necessary to hurl your duck out of the
plane and follow her to the ground.

There are some limitations to the Cat-and-Duck Method, but
by rigidly adhering to the following check list, a degree of
success will be achieved.

1. Get a wide-awake cat. Most cats do not want to stand up
at all, at any time. It may be necessary to get a large fierce
dog in the cockpit to keep the cat at attention.

2. Make sure your cat is clean. Dirty cats will spend all
their time washing. Trying to follow a cat licking itself
usually results in a tight snap roll, followed by an inverted (or
flat) spin. You can see this is very unsanitary.

3. Old cats are best. Young cats have nine lives, but an
old used-up cat with only one life left has just as much to lose
an you do and will therefore be more dependable.

4. Beware of cowardly ducks. If the duck discovers that
you are using the cat to stay upright - or straight and level-
she will refuse to leave without the cat. Ducks are no better on
instruments than you are.

5. Be sure the duck has good eyesight. Nearsighted ducks
sometimes will go flogging off into the nearest hill. Very
short-sighted ducks will not realize they have been thrown out
and will descend to the ground in a sitting position. This
maneuver is quite difficult to follow in an airplane.

6. Use land-loving ducks. It is very discouraging to break
out and find yourself on final approach for some farm pound in
Saskatchewan. Also, the farmers there suffer from temporary insanity
when chasing crows off their corn fields and will shoot anything
that flies.

7. Choose your duck carefully. It is easy to confuse ducks
with geese because many water birds look alike. While they are
very competent instrument flyers, geese seldom want to go in the
same direction you do. If your duck heads off for the Old Wives
Swamp, you may be sure you have been given the goose.


Yer Welcome...
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pelmet
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Re: Stuck above the clouds with no instruments

Post by pelmet »

Might work. I have seen a cat dropped from two feet above the floor multiple times and always land on its feet.
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photofly
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Re: Stuck above the clouds with no instruments

Post by photofly »

Not a very smart cat, if it sticks around to be dropped the second time. Definitely the third time.
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pelmet
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Re: Stuck above the clouds with no instruments

Post by pelmet »

photofly wrote: Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:32 pm Not a very smart cat, if it sticks around to be dropped the second time. Definitely the third time.
Maybe it likes aerobatics....or didn't have much of a choice.

Please don't try this at home....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIfD8eJdoV4

Amazing.
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pelmet
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Re: Stuck above the clouds with no instruments

Post by pelmet »

I guess it can be used as a normal operational tactic as well. From another forum....

"When I was flying Bolkow 105's in the UK North Sea, many years ago, we did not have GPS we had Decca Doppler Navigation......look it up, not very accurate. I used to approach the rig (no passengers only me onboard) according to the Doppler and even though I could not see the Rig as I was above the clouds 1500' and then see if I could make the rig by going into autorotation and when I came out visually see if I could have landed on the Helideck......I never did manage to achieve a deck landing I got really close."
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photofly
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Re: Stuck above the clouds with no instruments

Post by photofly »

trey kule wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:20 pm Its the cold,right?
Nobody has anything better to do.
Let's go back to this question.
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Squaretail
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Re: Stuck above the clouds with no instruments

Post by Squaretail »

You guys are all fools. Do the obvious, use the force.
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Re: Stuck above the clouds with no instruments

Post by RedAndWhiteBaron »

Squaretail wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:39 pm You guys are all fools. Do the obvious, use the force.
Yes - exactly. Find a hole in the clouds, then nose down and force your way through it at the earliest opportunity.
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2R
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Re: Stuck above the clouds with no instruments

Post by 2R »

whistlerboy02 wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:52 pm Photofly I always liked you, till today.
Use the whiskey compass for a heading
Depends on whether it is a Single Malt with one of those fancy Gaelic names or one of those excellent Prairie blends , the last compass that leaked a foul smelling fluid on me was not filled with sipping Whiskey , dats fur sure . I wouldnae thank yea fur a wee dram of that ya ken . Might be useful to help start a fire in a survival situation if your tanks are dry :)
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Re: Stuck above the clouds with no instruments

Post by RedAndWhiteBaron »

2R wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:28 pm I wouldnae thank yea fur a wee dram of that ya ken.
Blimey! That's me real name! Dunno who ya been talkin' to, lad, but I'se wants to be talkin' as well!
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