DEC

[flyguy2135]

How many people are usually hired in a ground school at Jazz?
AC has class sizes of 50 now.

[Caterpillar]

How many people are usually hired in a ground school at Jazz?
AC has class sizes of 50 now.

12

[KenoraPilot]

How many people are usually hired in a ground school at Jazz?
AC has class sizes of 50 now.

19 in the March 17 class

[flyguy2135]

If you came in as a DEC captain would you have a brutal schedule for a long time? What kind of seniority do you need to hold a block in the various bases?
Is there any talk about putting people on a certain type(previous type rating)that are coming in as a DEC?

[KenoraPilot]

If you came in as a DEC captain would you have a brutal schedule for a long time? What kind of seniority do you need to hold a block in the various bases?
Is there any talk about putting people on a certain type(previous type rating)that are coming in as a DEC?

Trouble with coming in DEC would be that as FO's already at Jazz who are getting their ATPL's upgrade they will continue to parachute in above you until eventually your seniority is reached and you start to climb. No telling how long that would last for, how fast FO's are getting ATPLs etc.

RSV at each base is different, some have 7-10 lines of CA reserve, some have less. This changes monthly as well. Usually when you have 8-12 below you, you will be a junior block holder (at most bases). Roughly.

[derateNO]

Reserve at Jazz is a breeze. I'd take 5 years of reserve at Jazz making $80k+ vs a FO block at $38k.

Come to Air Canada if you want to see what garbage reserve and scheduling rules look like.

Jazz is a Country Club.

[Raincoast]

Trouble with coming in DEC would be that as FO's already at Jazz who are getting their ATPL's upgrade they will continue to parachute in above you until eventually your seniority is reached and you start to climb. No telling how long that would last for, how fast FO's are getting ATPLs etc.

Wouldn't most of those F/Os be F-ing O to Air Canada as fast as their young legs allow them, though?

[av8ts]

Even if you came as DEC Capt the movement to AC is so great that it wouldn’t be long before your Capt seniority caught Up to you. If possible go Q Capt in YUL where seniority doesn’t exist.

[derateNO]

9 months to CRJ in YVR last I heard.

That's basically training, line indoc and 6 months of line flying before you'll see people funnel in below you.

[Transition9er2]

One thing that needs to be said, unless you are READY and CAPABLE of going DEC you should be more focused on being an FO for a year or so and upgrading when you’re ready!

Let’s use some common sense here... a guy flying corporate jets around the world going DEC is one thing. A 3 year flight instructor with 1500 hrs and a fresh ATPL is entirely another.

Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should.

Seems to me like too many ppl here are looking a little farther down the road than they should be.

All I’m saying.

T.

[KenoraPilot]

One thing that needs to be said, unless you are READY and CAPABLE of going DEC you should be more focused on being an FO for a year or so and upgrading when you’re ready!

Let’s use some common sense here... a guy flying corporate jets around the world going DEC is one thing. A 3 year flight instructor with 1500 hrs and a fresh ATPL is entirely another.

Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should.

Seems to me like too many ppl here are looking a little farther down the road than they should be.

All I’m saying.

T.

+1

[av8ts]

One thing that needs to be said, unless you are READY and CAPABLE of going DEC you should be more focused on being an FO for a year or so and upgrading when you’re ready!

Let’s use some common sense here... a guy flying corporate jets around the world going DEC is one thing. A 3 year flight instructor with 1500 hrs and a fresh ATPL is entirely another.

Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should.

Seems to me like too many ppl here are looking a little farther down the road than they should be.

All I’m saying.

T.

And this is why Jazz needs a matrix and not just go by your seniority number

[Canoehead]

One thing that needs to be said, unless you are READY and CAPABLE of going DEC you should be more focused on being an FO for a year or so and upgrading when you’re ready!

Let’s use some common sense here... a guy flying corporate jets around the world going DEC is one thing. A 3 year flight instructor with 1500 hrs and a fresh ATPL is entirely another.

Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should.

Seems to me like too many ppl here are looking a little farther down the road than they should be.

All I’m saying.

T.

Agree 100%

[goingnowherefast]

Would the 3 year, 1500hr instructor even pass the PIC assessment? They don't even know what a condition lever is. The guy flying corporate jets around the world probably isn't interested in Jazz, especially to be at the bottom of the reserve list for 80k/year.

I'm legimately curious, are there any DEC quality candidates in Jazz groundschools?

Earlier it was mentioned that the "Wasaya-type" operators pay quite well and do so because they were forced to. Jazz, and then AC are soon going to find themselves in the same position. 80 grand, or even 100 grand to be on reserve and getting called out to fly a Q400 for 6 legs a day into busy airspace. You can keep that job, I don't want it. Call me back when I can start at 150 grand, fly 4 legs a day for 12 days a month and no reserve. Oh, and open up some pilot bases in cities people can actually afford to live in.

Entitlement and joking aside, the Jazz should be begging for ALPA to come back to the negotiating table. AC and ACPA too.

[derateNO]

I wouldn't be surprised if you see a number of medevac/Perimiter/Wasaya/Bearskin Captains leave to go to Jazz if they were one of the people with aspirations for AC and thought their seat at those companies would get them there. Or if they just didn't want to take a pay cut to the FO positions before, which was understandable if you have a family/mortgage etc. With the new flow agreement, if they are young enough and DO actually want to work at AC then leaving for a Jazz DEC position where they might do 1-2 years isn't a bad idea.

[indieadventurer]

How is Sky filling DEC spots with their minimums?

[goingnowherefast]

I wouldn't be surprised if you see a number of medevac/Perimiter/Wasaya/Bearskin Captains leave to go to Jazz if they were one of the people with aspirations for AC and thought their seat at those companies would get them there. Or if they just didn't want to take a pay cut to the FO positions before, which was understandable if you have a family/mortgage etc. With the new flow agreement, if they are young enough and DO actually want to work at AC then leaving for a Jazz DEC position where they might do 1-2 years isn't a bad idea.

I can see this happening too. Lots of people were hoping to go OTS to AC from a Metro/1900 captain spot and skip the abysmal Jazz FO pay cut. Making the OTS jump from 704 or "705lite" to AC used to happen fairly frequently 2 years ago, not so much anymore. Go DEC at Jazz, pay cut is smaller, get some jet experience, sit on reserve for 6 months, and off to AC.

How it will work out for Jazz is a different question. These pilots will have 5000+ hours, an ATPL, lots of command experience and the desire to go to AC. I'd imagine most of them would be a Jazz pilot for 6 months before off to AC. Not very many will be PFO'd. How many pilots will be interested in that, maybe 50 across the country?

There aren't many who will want to go from a 100k+ 704/705lite captain job working 15 days a month to Jazz at 80k/yr, reserve, etc. with the intent to stay there. Probably just a handful who's spouses drag them south. Jazz will just have to make the deal more attractive.

[digits_]

Add some virtual (or better yet, real ones) bases, so people can live in CYQT, CYWG, CYOW etc. They would have much more applicants. For an airline, adding some confirmed seats on the planes should not be excessively expensive.

[goingnowherefast]

That works well for Porter; YQT, YOW and YHZ. Only YTZ is a common city with other airlines' bases. Porter can attract those who don't want to move to an unaffordable city or commute.

Do it right and they could even save on hotel costs.

[Ash Ketchum]

Reserve life for a junior bottom of the list captain at Jazz isn't too bad. I bid reserve b (night reserve) and average 7 stand up calls a month but usually end up doing 10 or so because I pick up overtime. The day reserve captains get called out everyday though so I try my best to avoid day reserve.