Working ATC overseas

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outflying8
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Working ATC overseas

Post by outflying8 »

Not sure if this belongs in the General ATS question forum or the NavCanada Hiring forum.

My question is, once you have tenure with Nav and/or eligible for retirement, if you wanted to go work ATC in another country for a new experience (liked the looks of Dubai for example), is there programs to do this? I haven't been able to find much in a brief 20 minute google search.

Thanks
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Lotro
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Re: Working ATC overseas

Post by Lotro »

Serco provides Air Traffic Services in other parts of the world and there are a handful of Canadian controllers who have gone to work for them in retirement or under other circumstances. They are the ones who hire for the middle east jobs. I've not done it, but I've heard stories about it, some good, some bad - as with everything caveat emptor.

https://www.serco.com/

Check the requirements though, licensed at a Grade 1 tower in Canada isn't of particular interest internationally...
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Mcwheely
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Re: Working ATC overseas

Post by Mcwheely »

I work in Dubai. Worked for Nav Canada for 18 years. And have worked in Bahrain also. Approach and Enroute. Have been overseas 9 of the last 12 years. Yes you can do it and its not just serco. If you work in TML then you can apply to DANS. Dubai Air Navigation Services. For the Tower here you can PM me and I will give details. You will need for approach to have worked at a place with at least 500 moments a day, YVR, YYC, YYZ, YUL. They are getting more flexible now as we are short of guys so even other places are ok. The pay is great as you pay now tax here. A business class ticket home each year paid in cash so you can use it for whatever you want. And a 1 month basic salary bonus a year. Schooling paid for up to 2 kids. Medical insurance is paid by the company and is first rate. For example you want to se a specialist for anything, usual a 1 day wait, not 1 year like at home, You need an MRI, 1 day and sometimes the same day. You will be able to save money here like you have never done before in your life, travel is cheap and easy all over the world. So all in without schooling which is direct paid is $314,000 CDN take home no deductions. Like making Aprox $434000CDN before taxes, so over double you would make in Canada. And I work no overtime here. You have to save for your own retirement, but that's not a problem. And when you leave the give you a retirement bonus depending on how many years you work here. It is substantial
You get 6 cycles of leave a year, so if you take 1 at a time that's 3 months. We work a 6,4. It can be a busy place but if you can work in any of the above places its no problem
Of course it is the middle east and takes so time getting used to but I love it. Every place has its good and bad things, its just how you view your life i guess
Everyone has to do what is best for them and what they are comfortable with. But there is so much more to see in this world.
If I was in my 30's i would move here in a minute. You can easily retire by 50 and a couple of the younger guys (in there 30's ) will probably be be done by 45.
Any questions just PM me
And no I do not get paid to recruit anyone. Just want more Canadians here!
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sneeringrye
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Re: Working ATC overseas

Post by sneeringrye »

Lotro wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:26 am Serco provides Air Traffic Services in other parts of the world and there are a handful of Canadian controllers who have gone to work for them in retirement or under other circumstances. They are the ones who hire for the middle east jobs. I've not done it, but I've heard stories about it, some good, some bad - as with everything caveat emptor.

https://www.serco.com/

Check the requirements though, licensed at a Grade 1 tower in Canada isn't of particular interest internationally...
My concern is if there are opportunities to work in ATC in a different nation after gaining Nav experience and/or being eligible for retirement. For instance, I think Dubai would be a cool place to check out. In 20 minutes of googling, I came up with nothing useful. Several former Canadian air traffic controllers now work for Serco, which offers Air Traffic Services in foreign countries, either out of retirement or for other reasons. In other words, they are the ones throughout charge of filling positions in the Middle East. I haven't tried it myself, but I have heard both positive and negative accounts; buyer beware and all that.
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wordstwice
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Re: Working ATC overseas

Post by wordstwice »

What’s the mandatory retirement age in Dubai if there is one?
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Eric Janson
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Re: Working ATC overseas

Post by Eric Janson »

This is a number of years ago - not sure how this works.

There used to be an American working in Lisbon ATC - was a surprise to hear an American accent in the Lisbon FIR. When he was working everyone was cleared direct to the exit points.

The story I heard was that he retired in Portugal and liked to keep his hand in.

There was a Welshman working in the tower at Schiphol - spoke fluent Dutch. I had to listen very carefully to pick up a trace of accent. Met him a few times back when visits were still allowed.

Just like experienced Pilots I'm sure that there is a demand for experienced Controllers. Especially native English speakers.

As a starting point I would suggest a holiday in the location that interests you - try to meet up with some colleagues. They can give you good information, show you around and introduce you to the appropriate people.
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Mcwheely
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Re: Working ATC overseas

Post by Mcwheely »

The retirement age is 60. But can be extended to 65 but don't count on it. Also if you are 50 or over they will not take you. Take your commuted at 49.
Also its 26 C here today , this is our winter.
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husky
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Re: Working ATC overseas

Post by husky »

So what's the bad? I've been to the Emirates so I'm familiar with some of the downsides of the country itself, but what about the downsides of the job there? I'm getting a bit fed up with the situation with our employer here in Canada...
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Mcwheely
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Re: Working ATC overseas

Post by Mcwheely »

The bad is its hot in the summer lol (50C +). Also they have the usual crap that comes with the job. No different from home. Work is work. If you want to pm me for contact info go ahead. I guess it depends on what you think is bad. If you come here constantly comparing things with Canada it might not be for you. There are many positives to living here. I am retiring in 4 years and will be staying here probably 6 to 7 months a year (in the winter of course) Cost of living overall is now cheaper here than in Canada. Very safe, tons of travel options, and no snow or cold. Very multi cultural but that is no different from Canada now. Life is easy here. You never have to worry paycheque to paycheck. You can spend as little or as much as you want. And save a ton of money. Very little overtime ( I worked 1 last year) but you don't need it to live here like home. And things are becoming more and more western. They dropped the 30% alcohol tax Jan 1/23.
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Haibara23
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Re: Working ATC overseas

Post by Haibara23 »

Lotro wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:26 am Serco provides Air Traffic Services in other parts of the world and there are a handful of Canadian controllers who have gone to work for them in retirement or under other circumstances. They are the ones who hire for the middle east jobs. I've not done it, but I've heard stories about it, some good, some bad - as with everything caveat emptor.

https://www.serco.com/

Check the requirements though, licensed at a Grade 1 tower in Canada isn't of particular interest internationally...
Has anyone in this room worked in air traffic in another nation or knows of someone who has? I'm a CTI student right now, and I want to work abroad very badly. In order to determine whether this is a good alternative, I'd like to comprehend the procedure. Any knowledge would be much appreciated!
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thenoflyzone
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Re: Working ATC overseas

Post by thenoflyzone »

Mcwheely wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:05 am I work in Dubai. Worked for Nav Canada for 18 years. And have worked in Bahrain also. Approach and Enroute. Have been overseas 9 of the last 12 years. Yes you can do it and its not just serco. If you work in TML then you can apply to DANS. Dubai Air Navigation Services. For the Tower here you can PM me and I will give details. You will need for approach to have worked at a place with at least 500 moments a day, YVR, YYC, YYZ, YUL. They are getting more flexible now as we are short of guys so even other places are ok. The pay is great as you pay now tax here. A business class ticket home each year paid in cash so you can use it for whatever you want. And a 1 month basic salary bonus a year. Schooling paid for up to 2 kids. Medical insurance is paid by the company and is first rate. For example you want to se a specialist for anything, usual a 1 day wait, not 1 year like at home, You need an MRI, 1 day and sometimes the same day. You will be able to save money here like you have never done before in your life, travel is cheap and easy all over the world. So all in without schooling which is direct paid is $314,000 CDN take home no deductions. Like making Aprox $434000CDN before taxes, so over double you would make in Canada. And I work no overtime here. You have to save for your own retirement, but that's not a problem. And when you leave the give you a retirement bonus depending on how many years you work here. It is substantial
You get 6 cycles of leave a year, so if you take 1 at a time that's 3 months. We work a 6,4. It can be a busy place but if you can work in any of the above places its no problem
Of course it is the middle east and takes so time getting used to but I love it. Every place has its good and bad things, its just how you view your life i guess
Everyone has to do what is best for them and what they are comfortable with. But there is so much more to see in this world.
If I was in my 30's i would move here in a minute. You can easily retire by 50 and a couple of the younger guys (in there 30's ) will probably be be done by 45.
Any questions just PM me
And no I do not get paid to recruit anyone. Just want more Canadians here!
I have always been interested with Dubai, so I contacted the Serco talent acquisition specialist for Dubai and had a phone interview with her for the DXB tower position. Don't know if the pay at DXB TWR is lower than at APP control (I asked her, but it wasn't clear), but the conditions are nowhere near as good as you describe it.

First off, the salary (excluding schooling) isn't 314,000$ CDN. It's 250,000$. (57,400 dirhams/21,270$ CDN per month). And this is only once you check out. (During training, you're only paid 45,500 dirhams/16,900$ CDN a month.) There was no bonus monthly salary mentioned.

Child education benefit is around 22,000$CDN per year per child (max 2 children), so a total of 44,000$ CDN per year.

The airfare benefit is for an economy class ticket (not business) back home for you and the family once a year (again, max 2 children only).

Medical coverage doesn't include dental or optical, so far from first rate.

As for the relocation allowance, its a meager 16,700$ CDN (45,000 dirhams). That's not a lot. And if you dont check out, they want that money back.

Considering the cost of living in Dubai has skyrocketed since the Ukraine/Russia war, due to Russian influx, those are not really attractive numbers, especially with wife/kids in tow.

If I was doing the move alone, it might be worth it. But definately not with a family, and definitely not with living expenses having almost doubled in the last 2 years.
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