Corona Virus

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corethatthermal
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by corethatthermal »

BTW, Dr. Tam Tam , Providing FALSE deceiving information or outright lies that cause illness, injury or multiple deaths, to me , constitutes mass murder !
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Rockie
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Rockie »

It’s astounding to me the number of pilots who think they’re smarter than the people who actually look after their collective health for a living. You rightfully wouldn’t tolerate an infectious disease expert coming up front to question your fuel choices, yet you have the lethal combination of ignorance and arrogance to effectively do the same to them. You also somehow fail to imagine that the entire professional apparatus doesn’t constantly re-evaluate their own recommendations against actual scientific evidence every single day.

Jesus, sometimes my colleagues in this business discourage me....
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rookiepilot
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by rookiepilot »

I dare Pelmet to post his "wisdom" on a medical professional's forum....I'd enjoy watching the shredding........

If he or anyone else feels that strongly, post it on a forum of ER / ICU doctors ---
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Last edited by rookiepilot on Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
doiwannabeapilot
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by doiwannabeapilot »

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/nation ... the-virus/

Read the full article and tell me you don't want to throw up.

To blindly say follow the experts......how many flip flops can they do ?
not transmitted by human contact
travel restrictions don't help
the risk is low

I just hope in 15 or 20 years at the next outbreak;
DAY 1 !!!!!! We close travel to China IMMEDIATELY.
Anyone there for work or pleasure; I'm sorry, that's a risk you take.....you're stuck there for a few months.
END OF STORY.

I WHOLEHEARTEDLY trust the scientists working on a vaccine, the professionals in a hospital. Yes, they are experts.
I don't trust the WHO or the UN or FIFA or the IOCC or TAM as far as i can throw them.

I was shocked that the NBA was the first to close up shop. Someone there had balls and integrity.
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A346Dude
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by A346Dude »

I don't necessarily agree with Pelmet's plan, but he's not wrong for asking questions and nobody has the right to tell him he can't. The current plan, which some have signed up for so wholeheartedly, isn't really a plan at all as it has no exit strategy. Shutting down the world economy for 6-18 months is untenable, and will fail.

Given the track record of our experts thus far, I refuse to blindly trust them until I see an actual, viable plan.
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Rockie
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Rockie »

A346Dude wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:06 am The current plan, which some have signed up for so wholeheartedly, isn't really a plan at all as it has no exit strategy.
Save lives and give the health services a fighting chance, that's the plan right now. Exit strategy is constantly being evaluated and will be put in place when the first two objectives are assured. Economic strategies (drastic ones at that) have been put in place and will similarly be constantly re-evaluated. Surely you've noticed?
A346Dude wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:06 am Given the track record of our experts thus far, I refuse to blindly trust them until I see an actual, viable plan.
As an A346 Dude I submit you're not qualified to tell if a plan is viable or not unless you're hiding some kind of health and economic expertise we don't know about. But you can trust or not trust as you like, as long as you adhere to the measures in place.
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ayseven
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by ayseven »

I would urge those who think they know more than the thousands of scientists who study this for a living, to inform themselves on the scientific method (I think Francis Bacon was the first to propose it officially (thank you internet)). People used to think things were only "an act of God", and to an extent they are, but we have learned ways to verify, and act accordingly, that can actually help us, instead of throwing ourselves out in front of buses, and hoping for the best.

I would argue that another point of view, one proposing ignoring the isolations orders, is more dangerous than some on here believe right now. I have no idea where this distrust of certain scientific authorities comes from, but I for one, find it baffling (actually I do know - easier to just say "things are so, just believe me" rather than look at indisputable facts). Is it so hard to admit that there are those that know more than we do?

Having said all that, alternative ideas are most certainly welcome in the right environment, but we are not well placed enough to argue each point that has been presented. We all want this over as soon as possible.

https://imgflip.com/i/3uq4zt
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pelmet
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by pelmet »

Rockie wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:24 am It’s astounding to me the number of pilots who think they’re smarter than the people who actually look after their collective health for a living. You rightfully wouldn’t tolerate an infectious disease expert coming up front to question your fuel choices, yet you have the lethal combination of ignorance and arrogance to effectively do the same to them. You also somehow fail to imagine that the entire professional apparatus doesn’t constantly re-evaluate their own recommendations against actual scientific evidence every single day.

Jesus, sometimes my colleagues in this business discourage me....
If our infectious disease experts are so smart. how come this pilot beat our leader to state that masks should be used. They have been doing it for decades in her home country. Maybe if a few infectious disease experts(or anybody else who saw the obvious) had told some pilots over the years not to land in thunderstorms, thousands would be alive who are not. It is called common sense.
rookiepilot wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:29 am I dare Pelmet to post his "wisdom" on a medical professional's forum....I'd enjoy watching the shredding........
If he or anyone else feels that strongly, post it on a forum of ER / ICU doctors ---
Here is my wisdom...
1. Wear masks even if asymptomatic while in public as you may cough for various other reasons and spread the virus. The experts...just figuring it out.
2. Don't trust China. They lied during the SARS epidemic and they are lying now. If America closes their border to China, we should do the same. The experts like WHO thought differently.
3. Human to human contact is obviously the way this is spread just like all the other flu type viruses that come out of China. The WHO....no human to human spread.
4. It is not nearly as high a death rate as you are saying...."On Mar. 3, the World Health Organization said the mortality rate for the virus had increased to 3.4 per cent." Guess what WHO.....there are all kinds of people without symptoms or few symptoms who never got tested. The mortality rate is much lower than estimates because so many people have few symptoms.

Shred away experts.

Time to get the young people infected while getting the economy going while older people are quarantined.
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Last edited by pelmet on Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
ayseven
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by ayseven »

You know, Mr Pelmet, some of us actually have science degrees, I for one, an MSc. You are wrong.
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pelmet
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by pelmet »

ayseven wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:27 am You know, Mr Pelmet, some of us actually have science degrees, I for one, an MSc. You are wrong.
Wow...for an MSc, your reasoning for me being wrong as spelled out by you after telling me that I was wrong is not very convincing.

I don't have a problem being proven wrong(all I want is the harsh truth), but you have to actually make your case. I would assume that is how one gets an MSc.
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pelmet
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by pelmet »

doiwannabeapilot wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:44 am https://edmontonjournal.com/news/nation ... the-virus/

Read the full article and tell me you don't want to throw up.
What a surprise. Just like I suspected. Political correctness is by far the first priority and no doubt part of trudeaus's choice. I challenge someone to fully read this article by our medical expert. OK, keep it short and start at chapter 2....

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/ ... ystem.html

Now you know why China was not cut off and we were all told how racist we are. Sorry folks, but after the news came out in January, I said to myself that I would not go into Asian market stores in cities with Asian flights. Why? Because on layovers, that is where the flight crews and foreign passengers go to get their food. Trust me...I know. If it had been the same for some other group, I would have done the same.

Poor racist me.

I guess I fall into this category....as tweeted by the Doctor....

Jan. 29: Dr. Theresa Tam, Canada’s chief public health officer, on Twitter: “I am concerned about the growing number of reports of racism and stigmatizing comments on social media directed to people of Chinese and Asian descent related to 2019-nCoV coronavirus… Racism, discrimination and stigmatizing language are unacceptable and very hurtful… Everyone has a part to play in preventing the spread of the virus. The Chinese community and all travellers from affected areas are a key part of these efforts….Racism, discrimination and stigmatizing language are unacceptable and very hurtful. These actions create a divide of Us Vs Them. Canada is a country built on the deep-rooted values of respect, diversity and inclusion.”
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BTD
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by BTD »

pelmet wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:06 am
Rockie wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:24 am It’s astounding to me the number of pilots who think they’re smarter than the people who actually look after their collective health for a living. You rightfully wouldn’t tolerate an infectious disease expert coming up front to question your fuel choices, yet you have the lethal combination of ignorance and arrogance to effectively do the same to them. You also somehow fail to imagine that the entire professional apparatus doesn’t constantly re-evaluate their own recommendations against actual scientific evidence every single day.

Jesus, sometimes my colleagues in this business discourage me....
If our infectious disease experts are so smart. how come this pilot beat our leader to state that masks should be used. They have been doing it for decades in her home country. Maybe if a few infectious disease experts(or anybody else who saw the obvious) had told some pilots over the years not to land in thunderstorms, thousands would be alive who are not. It is called common sense.
rookiepilot wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:29 am I dare Pelmet to post his "wisdom" on a medical professional's forum....I'd enjoy watching the shredding........
If he or anyone else feels that strongly, post it on a forum of ER / ICU doctors ---
Here is my wisdom...
1. Wear masks even if asymptomatic while in public as you may cough for various other reasons and spread the virus. The experts...just figuring it out.
2. Don't trust China. They lied during the SARS epidemic and they are lying now. If America closes their border to China, we should do the same. The experts like WHO thought differently.
3. Human to human contact is obviously the way this is spread just like all the other flu type viruses that come out of China. The WHO....no human to human spread.
4. It is not nearly as high a death rate as you are saying...."On Mar. 3, the World Health Organization said the mortality rate for the virus had increased to 3.4 per cent." Guess what WHO.....there are all kinds of people without symptoms or few symptoms who never got tested. The mortality rate is much lower than estimates because so many people have few symptoms.

Shred away experts.

Time to get the young people infected while getting the economy going while older people are quarantined.
While I agree there is an argument to be made perhaps a good one perhaps not, your positions above are only valid in hindsight. You are right by luck.

If I say a coin will land on heads, and then it does, does that mean you should believe any prediction I make? No. I got lucky.

Vigorous debate should be had by those that have the expertise and those that can adequately educate themselves on epedimeology and statistics. Unless one were already well versed in these ahead of time, I doubt 3 weeks of internet review has brought someone up to speed on the intricacies.

Before any recommendations or strategies can be put forth on a national scale they need to be supported by evidence, otherwise it is just making sh*t up on the fly.
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Capt. Underpants
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Capt. Underpants »

pelmet wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:06 am
They have been doing it for decades in her home country.
Her home country is Canada.
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Trematode
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Trematode »

Taken in the context of the political climate at the time, I think it was naive to think that banning Chinese flights would have been that effective.

We have the stark examples of the US and Italy being some of the earliest nations to do just that, yet they are some of the hardest hit nations. I think the Science was there to say it would not have helped, and perhaps hindered efforts to track spread (as passengers and airlines connected through other countries), and hindered efforts of Canadian citizens to come home.

I don't think anybody would have argued that an immediate halt to all international flying wouldn't have helped. Or if the international community came together to basically quarantine Chinese flights altogether -- but again, taken in the context of the political climate no nation on earth was prepared to do this due to the obvious and immediate economic repercussions in the face of a threat that was still doubted by those outside of the scientific communities.

What we have happening now, is that the same people who royally fucked up the response to this (the trump administration), and the people who were utterly and completely wrong about the severity of the threat (the alt-right, anti-science, anti-intellectual, anti-authority whackjobs of the world) trying to save face. They are now engaged in playing the blame game to our collective detriment.

What we need is to shut the @#$! up, stay home, and listen to the doctors and scientists -- and save the ideological bullshit for the economic recovery where it sadly still has a leg to stand on.

When it comes to the science of this disease, we know what works and what doesn't. We don't need the political bullshit muddying the waters right now.
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pelmet
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by pelmet »

Trematode wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:21 pm What we have happening now, is that the same people who royally fucked up the response to this (the trump administration), and the people who were utterly and completely wrong about the severity of the threat (the alt-right, anti-science, anti-intellectual, anti-authority whackjobs of the world) trying to save face. They are now engaged in playing the blame game to our collective detriment.
The only people with credibility on that issue are the ones wiling to admit that both sides were wrong. Trump and NYC mayor de Blasio were wrong that it was not a concern. Trudeau and Dems were wrong that it was all about racism. At least one of the group is ready to start up the economy soon(I guess he is not saying how wonderful it is these days that there are less carbon emissions.

I have a few suggestions for him as already outlined above.

25% of the population can be temporarily quarantined and they probably represent a much lower percentage of the workforce.
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Trematode
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Trematode »

Pelmet.

You are part of the problem.

Stop.
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A346Dude
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by A346Dude »

Just so I have this clear... the response from the "pro-science" camp is: we are right, you are wrong, stop talking. No evidence, no admission that some of the talking points from mere weeks ago were 100% contrary to the current rules and advice.

But we're sure we're on the right path now.

OK then.
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pelmet
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by pelmet »

Capt. Underpants wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:14 pm
pelmet wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:06 am
They have been doing it for decades in her home country.
Her home country is Canada.
Sorry, I forgot momentarily how important political correctness is when it comes to this whole disaster. I will re-arrange my priorities and admit my privilege.
Trematode wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:44 pm Pelmet.

You are part of the problem.

Stop.
Which problem...the economic one, the health one, or the one that looks for ideas to save the economy and protect lives at the same time.
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Last edited by pelmet on Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rockie
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Rockie »

pelmet wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:06 am
4. It is not nearly as high a death rate as you are saying...."On Mar. 3, the World Health Organization said the mortality rate for the virus had increased to 3.4 per cent." Guess what WHO.....there are all kinds of people without symptoms or few symptoms who never got tested. The mortality rate is much lower than estimates because so many people have few symptoms.

Shred away experts.

Time to get the young people infected while getting the economy going while older people are quarantined.
Actually as of April 6th the number of worldwide confirmed cases reported to the WHO is 1,210,244 with the number of related deaths standing at 67,583. Now there are a several caveats to go along with those numbers but to save you the trouble of doing the math yourseelf that equals a 5.58% mortality rate.

But what are stats and medical expertise against the awe inspiring mental powers of Professor Pelmet? We should all bow...
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pelmet
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by pelmet »

Rockie wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:58 pm
pelmet wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:06 am
4. It is not nearly as high a death rate as you are saying...."On Mar. 3, the World Health Organization said the mortality rate for the virus had increased to 3.4 per cent." Guess what WHO.....there are all kinds of people without symptoms or few symptoms who never got tested. The mortality rate is much lower than estimates because so many people have few symptoms.

Shred away experts.

Time to get the young people infected while getting the economy going while older people are quarantined.
Actually as of April 6th the number of worldwide confirmed cases reported to the WHO is 1,210,244 with the number of related deaths standing at 67,583. Now there are a several caveats to go along with those numbers but to save you the trouble of doing the math yourseelf that equals a 5.58% mortality rate.

But what are stats and medical expertise against the awe inspiring mental powers of Professor Pelmet? We should all bow...
Start bowing. Anybody stupid enough to not realize that there are millions of unconfirmed cases should do nothing less. :prayer:

https://www.newsweek.com/wuhan-coronavi ... 19-1493201
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Last edited by pelmet on Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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