Is the 4 year flat pay worth it?

[780Pilot]

I know everyone complains about it with a family and kids etc. But what if your single and have no responsibility like that? Sure you take a cut coming from for example Jazz (or anywhere lol) but after its over your home free and getting a pretty decent chunk o change. Just wondering for myself one day as that would be my ideal situation if I chose to go for it. And YES I know COVID 19, no ones hiring, blah blah blah. Put that aside for now.

Just looking for perspective.
Thx Guys

[lownslow]

Someone once said that even if you get into debt during the flat pay it’s just another loan for your own future, like you might have done for school.

[780Pilot]

Someone once said that even if you get into debt during the flat pay it’s just another loan for your own future, like you might have done for school.

I am lucky enough and have zero flt training debt or any debt for that matter. But yea I if you view it that way.... not as bad.

[porcsord]

I don't have a horse in this race, airlines are not my thing for my own reasons. That being said, I would say: yes, yes it is. No where else in aviation (with the exception of very few corporate positions) will you have the earning potential of Big Red. Even with Covid, I suspect AC is still one of the more stable jobs for all but the most junior of pilots.

Ultimately though, it's really up to you. I never need to make 300k a year to do everything I want in my life or retire when I want to retire. Yah, I won't have my own -2T in retirement or a 50' yacht, but I don't need either of those to be happy. The nice thing about this career is that you can make what you want of it. If you don't like cities, you can can avoid them, if you want to travel on rotation, you can do that, if you like large paychecks and the jetsetter life style, you can do that, if you want to be home every night, you can do that. Find what makes you happy, and do that.

[danield]

Grossed 113k my first year with a little.help from my Jazz FIP. My AC T4 indicated just under 100k.
Subsequent years on flat pay were all over 100k with overtime(15-20k of per diems on top of that)...

Once off flat pay as an FO you can expect 140k (A320) to 210k (777) and everything in between..
Upgrades have been happening in under 3 years... Before this social experiment began of course, who knows what it will look like after the dust has settled... However I'm optimistic..

So short answer YES flat pay is worth it. Make a sacrifice and go into a bit of debt during those 4 years OR do some overtime and still make a decent living... Your earning power after those 4 years does not compare to anything else we have in Canada. For anyone under 55 it is an absolute no brainer..

[ToolShed]

AC 4 year flat play is actually higher than my 2 year flat pay plus my 2 year A320 formula pay.

See Below.

Year one $32675 Flat pay at 78 hours Guaranteed + Zippo OT
Year two $47645 Flat Pay at 78 hours Guaranteed + Some OT
Year three $73400 A320 FO Level 3 + Some OT
Year four $103000 A320 FO Level 4 + Some OT
Total $256720

Current 4 Year Flat Pay (All at only 75 hours Guaranteed) as of April 2nd, 2020
(All numbers without OT)
Year one $55135
Year two $60280
Year three $68705
Year four $76930
Total $261050

Its actually more for less work now.
75 credit vs the old 78 credit.

It is better than it was.

I knew what i signed up for.

LONG TERM EMPLOYMENT, with short term pains.

[FL-280]

In what year? Please include inflation.
After inflation, flat pay is SLIGHTLY better.... but 4 instead of 2 is a bid deal

[ToolShed]

In what year? Please include inflation.
After inflation, flat pay is SLIGHTLY better.... but 4 instead of 2 is a bid deal

Inflation and you'll still be sad.

MY FLAT Pay after inflation
Year One $38015
Year two $54013
Formula Pay After Inflation
Year three $82193
Year four $114000

New total $288211 With OT so over 85 hour months

Now To be fair I have to Inflate and add the extra 3 credits per month to the current 4 year flat pay.
Everyone forgets this missing 36/year or 144 extra credits over the 4 years.

https://www.bankofcanada.ca/rates/relat ... alculator/

Lets say you started 4 years ago (2016)

Year one $50940+36 credit(2037)= 52978 X inflation = $57271
Year two $56808+36 credit(2272) =59080 X inflation = $62587
Year three $66033 +36 credit(2641) = 68674 X inflation = $71214
Year four $75420 +36 credits(3017) = 78437 X inflation = $80128

Total $271500 at AT 78 hours and no OVERTIME

Do you want me to show you 85 hours...and no OT for the Flat pay with inflation?

You wont like the answer.

[vermont]

Why are Canadians so quick to defend ourselves being exploited?

[altiplano]

You think a job that exceeds the median household income in this country and moves you into top 5% of income earners in a hurry, and then surely after that moves you into the very top percentile is being exploited?

Don't get me wrong, we don't get paid enough, but exploited we are not.

[vermont]

You think a job that exceeds the median household income in this country and moves you into top 5% of income earners in a hurry, and then surely after that moves you into the very top percentile is being exploited?

Don't get me wrong, we don't get paid enough, but exploited we are not.

How many people make it there?

How many who are in this industry make below the poverty line in a major city as instructor? Or ramp up north for years? (Some never getting the chance to actually fly after ramping) What professional other jobs can put you on call at 7am and ring you at 5pm until recently and expect you to go from Vancouver to Japan? (And not pay you until the parking brake is off)

[ayseven]

This is an Air Canada thread Vermont. It doesn't sound like that is the place for you!

[vermont]

This is an Air Canada thread Vermont. It doesn't sound like that is the place for you!

Yeah, I'm a bit too wise to beg to be exploited

[Kaykay]

This is an Air Canada thread Vermont. It doesn't sound like that is the place for you!

Yeah, I'm a bit too wise to beg to be exploited

If you think aviation is the only industry that does this, you need to reevaluate. Every industry and every profession has their own variety of “work ramp up north for poverty wages for years first”.

[vermont]

This is an Air Canada thread Vermont. It doesn't sound like that is the place for you!

Yeah, I'm a bit too wise to beg to be exploited

If you think aviation is the only industry that does this, you need to reevaluate. Every industry and every profession has their own variety of “work ramp up north for poverty wages for years first”.

I agree lots of industries have a "do your time phase" but I can't think of any professional careers with such spiteful individuals AND that also requires you to move up north while paying poverty wages.

[Kaykay]

Yeah, I'm a bit too wise to beg to be exploited

If you think aviation is the only industry that does this, you need to reevaluate. Every industry and every profession has their own variety of “work ramp up north for poverty wages for years first”.

I agree lots of industries have a "do your time phase" but I can't think of any professional careers with such spiteful individuals AND that also requires you to move up north while paying poverty wages.

There’s lots and I’ve experienced a couple other than aviation that were undoubtedly worse.

[vermont]

If you think aviation is the only industry that does this, you need to reevaluate. Every industry and every profession has their own variety of “work ramp up north for poverty wages for years first”.

I agree lots of industries have a "do your time phase" but I can't think of any professional careers with such spiteful individuals AND that also requires you to move up north while paying poverty wages.

There’s lots and I’ve experienced a couple other than aviation that were undoubtedly worse.

List a few for us slow people? I think the fact people grown up wanting to do this job makes us especially vulnerable (and at times foolish)

[altiplano]

You're on a thread hijack. The question was first 4 years AC, and it's not exploitation.

[780Pilot]

You're on a thread hijack. The question was first 4 years AC, and it's not exploitation.

+1

[shimmydampner]

Don't discourage his fresh-out-of-flight school insights. They're so valuable. As he pointed out, he's so very wise.