AC and TRZ Agree to Terminate Arrangement

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Fanblade
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Shar

Post by Fanblade »

aerodude wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:48 pm
Sharklasers wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:30 pm Let me get this straight, In your magical fairy land fantasy acpa just gives up and dies on all our scope protections and cede all our leisure flying to you. Air Canada will recall all the Transat pilots and then staple on all the laid off Mainline pilots? Forgetting the fact that it won’t happen show me the part where “ Everyone are all getting fuckked.” as you say?
You haven't experienced FOS yet I guess.
:rolleyes:

Your starting to behave like a troll.

Your suggesting CR wants to go to war with his pilots.

During the AC/CDN merger AC kept running Canadian regionals f28’s. Every AC pilot got a nice chunk of change for the scope violation.

I still remember an F28 taxing from left to right in front on me after the release of the arbitration. They were given 6 weeks to cease and desist. The window open, arm extended, finger up.

If AC mainline shrinks. Everything shrinks. CR will be sorting out the ramifications of that fact as he comes up with a go forward strategy.

Our Contract is closed to scope changes until 2025.
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Localizer
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by Localizer »

That's what LOU's are for ...
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Fanblade
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by Fanblade »

Localizer wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:23 pm That's what LOU's are for ...
:lol: What’s the last letter in LOU stand for? There won’t be any voluntary “understanding” to allow the pain of job loss to be disproportionately placed on AC pilots at mainline.

The whole point of the language in the ACPA CBA is proportional growth/shrink.

No one had a problem with proportional growth. They shouldn’t have a problem with proportional shrink.

With that said we both know ACPA pilots will be considered tyrants once again. It just seems to come with the territory.

I mention ACPA’s scope regarding growth/shrink for two reasons. 1) Suggestions of disproportionate pain on the AC pilot side is contractually protected from happening. 2) The growth/Shrink language will have a material impact on the options AC has with regard to integrating Transat or running it as a subsidiary.

The latter seems to be lost on most. They either don’t realize the language exists or haven’t stopped to consider the languages implications. I doubt even CR has put much thought to it. First a fleet plan is required for mainline. Then and only then can it be determined what size entities such as regionals or a leisure carrier can be.
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by Localizer »

I wasn’t implying they’ll use an LOU to take what they want .. but LOU to make some potential gains from the situation.
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Fanblade
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by Fanblade »

Localizer wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:46 pm I wasn’t implying they’ll use an LOU to take what they want .. but LOU to make some potential gains from the situation.
Are you suggesting I jumped to conclusions about your comment? :oops:
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altiplano
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by altiplano »

DanWEC wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:12 pm
FL-280 wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:58 pm Lets see if all those conditions and approvals are met lol... you know AC can exit the deal on the pandemic basis alone right? If ac doesnt want ac wont buy it
Actually false, and completely the opposite. There is a pandemic clause in the contract that prevents it.
Where is the pandemic clause?

I don't see "pandemic" mentioned once if I search the agreement.

Or is it only in the French version?
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by DanWEC »

DanWEC wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:00 pm
altiplano wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:51 pm
DanWEC wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:12 pm

Actually false, and completely the opposite. There is a pandemic clause in the contract that prevents it.

Where is the pandemic clause?

I don't see "pandemic" mentioned once if I search the agreement.

Or is it only in the French version?
Sorry I was typing quickly. You know what part I was referring to. Exclusions to adverse affect under Sec 1.1.
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Last edited by DanWEC on Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
altiplano
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by altiplano »

DanWEC wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:00 pm
altiplano wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:51 pm
DanWEC wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:12 pm

Actually false, and completely the opposite. There is a pandemic clause in the contract that prevents it.
Where is the pandemic clause?

I don't see "pandemic" mentioned once if I search the agreement.

Or is it only in the French version?
Sorry I was typing quickly. You know what part I was referring to. Mentioned earlier.
No I don't know. I have seen people mention it, but I just searched through the agreement and there isn't any mention of "pandemic" so maybe you can repost what clause you mean here?
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DanWEC
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by DanWEC »

altiplano wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:09 pm
DanWEC wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:00 pm
altiplano wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:51 pm

Where is the pandemic clause?

I don't see "pandemic" mentioned once if I search the agreement.

Or is it only in the French version?
Sorry I was typing quickly. You know what part I was referring to. Mentioned earlier.
No I don't know. I have seen people mention it, but I just searched through the agreement and there isn't any mention of "pandemic" so maybe you can repost what clause you mean here?

Ah, I edited my post as you responded. Sec 1.1. Page 11. Exclusions to Material Adverse Affect.
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altiplano
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by altiplano »

DanWEC wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:11 pm
altiplano wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:09 pm
DanWEC wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:00 pm Sorry I was typing quickly. You know what part I was referring to. Mentioned earlier.
No I don't know. I have seen people mention it, but I just searched through the agreement and there isn't any mention of "pandemic" so maybe you can repost what clause you mean here?
Ah, I edited my post as you responded. Sec 1.1. Page 11. Exclusions to Material Adverse Affect.
Here's the definition from pages 11 and 12, please point out where a "pandemic" is excluded from triggering the MAE clause in the contract.
"Material Adverse Effect" means any change, event, occurrence, effect, state of facts and/or circumstance that, individually or in the aggregate with other such changes, events, occurrences, effects, states of facts or circumstances is or would reasonably be expected to be material and adverse to the business, operations, results of operations, assets, properties,
financial condition, liabilities (contingent or otherwise) of the Corporation and its Subsidiaries, taken as a whole, except any such change, event, occurrence, effect, state of facts or
circumstance resulting from or arising in connection with:

(a) any change, event, occurrence, effect, state of facts or circumstance affecting generally the airline industry or the segments of the travel, hotel and tourism industries in which the Corporation and its Subsidiaries operate;

(b) changes, events or occurrences in general economic, political, or financial conditions in any jurisdiction in which the Corporation or its Subsidiaries operate, including changes in currency exchange rates;

(c) any change in Law, IFRS (including with respect to the implementation of IFRS 16) or changes in regulatory accounting or tax requirements, or in the interpretation, application or non-application of the foregoing by any Governmental Entity;

(d) increases in the price of fuel (it being understood that the causes underlying such increase may, to the extent not otherwise excluded from the definition of Material Adverse Effect, be taken into account in determining whether a Material Adverse
Effect has occurred);

(e) any natural disasters, acts of war (whether declared), uprisings and civil unrest, acts of terrorism or sabotage and outbreaks of disease, including in each of the aforementioned cases, any escalation or worsening thereof;

(f) any action taken (or omitted to be taken) by the Corporation or any of its Subsidiaries to the extent required by this Agreement (it being understood that the causes underlying any action permitted under Section 4.1(1)(c) and (e), may to the extent not otherwise excluded from the definition of Material Adverse Effect, be taken into account in determining whether a Material Adverse Effect has occurred) or with the prior written consent or at the written direction of the Purchaser;

(g) any change in the market price or trading volume of the Shares (it being understood that the causes underlying such change in market price or trading volume may, to the extent not otherwise excluded from the definition of Material Adverse Effect, be taken
into account in determining whether a Material Adverse Effect has occurred);

(h) any failure by the Corporation to meet any internal forecasts, projections or earnings guidance or expectations, or any external forecasts, projections or earnings guidance or expectations provided or publicly released by the Corporation or equity analysts for any period (it being understood that the causes underlying such matters may, to the extent not otherwise excluded from the definition of Material Adverse Effect, be taken into account in determining whether a Material Adverse Effect has occurred);

(i) any Proceeding or threatened Proceeding relating to this Agreement or the Arrangement; or

(j) the execution, announcement or performance of this Agreement or the Arrangement or the implementation of the Arrangement, including any loss or threatened loss of, or
adverse change or threatened adverse change in, the relationship of the Corporation or any of its Subsidiaries with any Governmental Entity or any of its or their current or
prospective employees, customers, Securityholders, financing sources, vendors, distributors, suppliers, partners, licensors or lessors;

but, in the case of clauses (a) through to and including (e) above, only to the extent that any such change, event, occurrence, effect, state of facts or circumstances does not have a materially disproportionate effect on the Corporation and its Subsidiaries, taken as a whole, relative to other entities operating in the airline industry or the segments of the travel, hotel and tourism industries in which the Corporation and its Subsidiaries operate; and references in certain sections of this Agreement to dollar amounts are not intended to be, and shall not be deemed to be, illustrative or interpretative for purposes of determining whether a Material Adverse Effect has occurred.
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DanWEC
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by DanWEC »

altiplano wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:20 pm
DanWEC wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:11 pm
altiplano wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:09 pm

No I don't know. I have seen people mention it, but I just searched through the agreement and there isn't any mention of "pandemic" so maybe you can repost what clause you mean here?
Ah, I edited my post as you responded. Sec 1.1. Page 11. Exclusions to Material Adverse Affect.
Here's the definition from pages 11 and 12, please point out where a "pandemic" is excluded from triggering the MAE clause in the contract.
...
As I mentioned, sorry, I was typing quickly, while driving, and drinking, without a seat belt on, on my way to a tightly packed room filled with moist talkers, and responding with a few of the posts above in my mind that incorrectly referenced the pandemic so I just spit out the term. Moistly.

Here is the relevant language:
"Material Adverse Effect" means any change, event, occurrence, effect, state of facts and/or circumstance that, individually or in the aggregate with other such changes, events, occurrences, effects, states of facts or circumstances is or would reasonably be expected to be material and adverse to the business, operations, results of operations, assets, properties,
financial condition, liabilities (contingent or otherwise) of the Corporation and its Subsidiaries, taken as a whole, except any such change, event, occurrence, effect, state of facts or circumstance resulting from or arising in connection with:

(e) any natural disasters, acts of war (whether declared), uprisings and civil unrest, acts of terrorism or sabotage and outbreaks of disease, including in each of the aforementioned cases, any escalation or worsening thereof;

but, in the case of clauses (a) through to and including (e) above, only to the extent that any such change, event, occurrence, effect, state of facts or circumstances does not have a materially disproportionate effect on the Corporation and its Subsidiaries, taken as a whole, relative to other entities operating in the airline industry or the segments of the travel, hotel and tourism industries in which the Corporation and its Subsidiaries operate; and references in certain sections of this Agreement to dollar amounts are not intended to be, and shall not be deemed to be, illustrative or interpretative for purposes of determining whether a Material Adverse Effect has occurred.
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altiplano
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by altiplano »

Is a pandemic the same an outbreak of disease?
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DanWEC
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by DanWEC »

Was it an outbreak of muppets??

One thing is for sure, I think pilots acting like lawyers is just as bad as a lawyer trying to land a 777. My expertise ends with lsat study and traffic court.

It's about the company merger, and pilots are just a small, small factor. None of this is about pleasing us.
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JoeyBarton
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by JoeyBarton »

The truth lies in what Fanblade has said. Mainline shrinks, LLC and regionals shrink.
CR also mentions it will be completed second half of 2020. Is Transat still going to be around in 6 months? In what shape?
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altiplano
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by altiplano »

You mentioned it - the pandemic clause. But there isn't a pandemic clause.

That argument over interpretations aside though, the MAE clause certainly seems applicable if perhaps open to interpretation.

The lawyers will no doubt have to sort it out.
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FL320
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by FL320 »

JoeyBarton wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:03 pm Is Transat still going to be around in 6 months? In what shape?
Yes - in the same shape as today; except it will be property of Air Canada. We will become a big family pretty soon! just watch
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by FL-280 »

altiplano wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:51 pm
DanWEC wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:12 pm
FL-280 wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:58 pm Lets see if all those conditions and approvals are met lol... you know AC can exit the deal on the pandemic basis alone right? If ac doesnt want ac wont buy it
Actually false, and completely the opposite. There is a pandemic clause in the contract that prevents it.
Where is the pandemic clause?

I don't see "pandemic" mentioned once if I search the agreement.

Or is it only in the French version?
You dont see pandemic because it aint covered. The WHO defines very clearly the difference between outbreak, epidemic, pandemic. The question lies with “ worsening thereof” ... who the hell knows.
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Last edited by FL-280 on Tue Apr 14, 2020 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
FL-280
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by FL-280 »

FL320 wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:46 pm
JoeyBarton wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:03 pm Is Transat still going to be around in 6 months? In what shape?
Yes - in the same shape as today; except it will be property of Air Canada. We will become a big family pretty soon! just watch
After 4 - 5 years of arbitration, sure.
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timeflies
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by timeflies »

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Last edited by timeflies on Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
Bornaflyer
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by Bornaflyer »

CEWS will only delay the inevitable : once funds are depleted, and unless the govt extends the program, Transat will not have enough money to survive one month of operating with 0 flights. Bankruptcy will prevail. They will then owe AC the fee by bailing out as they will have declared bankruptcy, and the transaction will not be able to go through. Why do you think CR mentions midway through next year? Fully planning on scalpelling what's left of the fleet. The memo is clearly dated weeks ago if not in February as there is NO mention of covid 19, and of new routes they will be recently starting
Seriously ??.
I wouldn't put much weight into it .
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160tonoaha
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by 160tonoaha »

Bornaflyer wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:13 pm CEWS will only delay the inevitable : once funds are depleted, and unless the govt extends the program, Transat will not have enough money to survive one month of operating with 0 flights. Bankruptcy will prevail. They will then owe AC the fee by bailing out as they will have declared bankruptcy, and the transaction will not be able to go through. Why do you think CR mentions midway through next year? Fully planning on scalpelling what's left of the fleet. The memo is clearly dated weeks ago if not in February as there is NO mention of covid 19, and of new routes they will be recently starting
Seriously ??.
I wouldn't put much weight into it .
I sure as hell hope I never board a flight you’re operating.

Next year? Second half of 2020 is hardly next year. Let me guess, you fly heading 360 when given a turn to heading 160 right? Hope you’re not on the CANUC4 for the 8’s during imc.

Transat has a billion dollars in cash. They will be around for a while at a burn rate of 30 million per month.

Don’t worry you will all be fist bumping each other in honour of S.R. when you say bye at Viscount.

For the ones saying Calin will respect scope. What happens if he doesn’t? It’s not like AC pilots can strike. You’ll have to grieve it and sort it out in court while transat operates.

Honestly, what leg do you have to stand on if Calin doesn’t follow your agreement? Anything you do will take years to solve by selling your strike rights away.
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altiplano
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by altiplano »

Rovinescu has already said he will honour ACPAs agreement.

And Transat does not have a billion dollars...

We'll see what happens. No way the deal goes through as was drafted.
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FL320
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by FL320 »

Bornaflyer wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:13 pm CEWS will only delay the inevitable : once funds are depleted, and unless the govt extends the program, Transat will not have enough money to survive one month of operating with 0 flights. Bankruptcy will prevail. They will then owe AC the fee by bailing out as they will have declared bankruptcy, and the transaction will not be able to go through. Why do you think CR mentions midway through next year? Fully planning on scalpelling what's left of the fleet. The memo is clearly dated weeks ago if not in February as there is NO mention of covid 19, and of new routes they will be recently starting
Seriously ??.
I wouldn't put much weight into it .
Don’t be pessimistic; the deal will go through. Furthermore Transat/AC as a team will also get all the money they need from the government -to be announced soon- to survive (like Trump did yesterday with their airlines) 👍
People do not want AT to go bankrupt, AT does not want to go bankrupt, government does not want AT to go bankrupt: AT won’t go bankrupt; so C.R wants AT.
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Last edited by FL320 on Wed Apr 15, 2020 4:55 am, edited 12 times in total.
indieadventurer
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by indieadventurer »

timeflies wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 8:32 pm can someone post the actual statement by CR?
CR wrote
If all approvals are obtained and conditions met, we expect the transaction to close in the second half of 2020.
That’s what’s got some people very worked up.
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172cptn
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by 172cptn »

Hopefully lube will be easier to find than hand sanitizer....
👌👈🍍
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