AC and TRZ Agree to Terminate Arrangement

[Thorjones]

For all those AC peeps cheering for this deal to tank...

Maybe buy some trz stock? If the deal goes through you're making a pretty penny

If the deal tanks you keep the Trz guys off your list....for now


Win-win

[Daniel Cooper]

Or buy AC stock. Deal goes through it goes up. Deal doesn't go through it goes up. Win-Win-Win

[160tonoaha]

Rovinescu has already said he will honour ACPAs agreement.

And Transat does not have a billion dollars...

We'll see what happens. No way the deal goes through as was drafted.

Actually altiplano, yes they do.

Just shy of 600 million in liquid cash, and 400 some
Million in cash reserves for non liquid transactions.

At 18/share AC is still getting money back for buying transat.

As for your comment about what Cr said, that was all pre covid 19. If you want to make the assertion that pre covid 19 commitments are being re drafted such as the agreed upon price, I suppose consistency would dictate that so could his versed commitment to his pilot group.

Back to my question, what leg do you have to stand on if he doesn’t follow what he promises ?

[altiplano]

Article 1 of an 80+ year collective agreement. AC Pilots own AC flying, if the corporation violates scope, they will lose, they will pay, and CR knows it, and he isn't going to do it.

I think it's funny you seem to be chomping at the bit to go scabbing and get AC flying transferred to you after your own airline has shut down. Assuming the transaction happens, why wouldn't you just want to negotiate/arbitrate a fair SLI?

[NotDirty!]

For the ones saying Calin will respect scope. What happens if he doesn’t? It’s not like AC pilots can strike. You’ll have to grieve it and sort it out in court while transat operates.

Honestly, what leg do you have to stand on if Calin doesn’t follow your agreement? Anything you do will take years to solve by selling your strike rights away.

There is industrial action short of a strike that can be taken, not to mention I wouldn’t write off the potential to strike for ACPA, should the collective agreement be opened in such a way.

[Sharklasers]

Actually altiplano, yes they do.

Just shy of 600 million in liquid cash, and 400 some
Million in cash reserves for non liquid transactions.

At 18/share AC is still getting money back for buying transat.

As for your comment about what Cr said, that was all pre covid 19. If you want to make the assertion that pre covid 19 commitments are being re drafted such as the agreed upon price, I suppose consistency would dictate that so could his versed commitment to his pilot group.

Back to my question, what leg do you have to stand on if he doesn’t follow what he promises ?

Only if you don’t count all the liabilities? Like the 809 million liability for presold tickets or 700 in lease liability or 400 million in ‘other payables’ you can’t just cherry pick one line in the financial report and base your argument on that that. But your a smart guy who knows that, I’m assuming you know how to read a balance sheet. The accounts payable don’t just go away in the sale.
Pre-covid TRZ had about 2.6 B in assets (the value of their fleet, investments and cash reserves have dropped) and and about 2.3 billion in liabilities and equity financing. If completely dissolved the operation there would be 300 million left. Anything paid on top of that is for the brand.


Further why do you guys act like the Transat purchase agreement is so air tight and unalterable that Jesus Christ himself from down off the cross the couldn’t change it but the ACPA employment contract is just something anyone can tear up and throw away? Either a contract is a contract or everything is up in the air right now.

[rudder]

The only scenario that the AC pilots need fear is some situational manipulation that forces their CBA open and exposes them to potential government intervention in the bargaining process that would allow for legislatively imposed binding arbitration in areas of their CBA that are otherwise off limits.

Apart from that, the AC pilots have the strongest leg to stand on in terms of what AC can and cannot do operationally if it consummates the acquisition of TRZ.

Either way, nobody should lose sight of the immediate crisis. TS flight operations are shuttered. No guidance in when that will change. AC flight operations reduced by 85-90%. Quick recovery unlikely.

There is still lots of bad news and upheaval pending for anybody that relies on passenger commercial aviation for their income.

[Sharklasers]

..

[FL-280]

Actually altiplano, yes they do.

Just shy of 600 million in liquid cash, and 400 some
Million in cash reserves for non liquid transactions.

At 18/share AC is still getting money back for buying transat.

As for your comment about what Cr said, that was all pre covid 19. If you want to make the assertion that pre covid 19 commitments are being re drafted such as the agreed upon price, I suppose consistency would dictate that so could his versed commitment to his pilot group.

Back to my question, what leg do you have to stand on if he doesn’t follow what he promises ?

Only if you don’t count all the liabilities? Like the 809 million liability for presold tickets or 700 in lease liability or 400 million in ‘other payables’ you can’t just cherry pick one line in the financial report and base your argument on that that. But your a smart guy who knows that, I’m assuming you know how to read a balance sheet. The accounts payable don’t just go away in the sale.
Pre-covid TRZ had about 2.6 B in assets (the value of their fleet, investments and cash reserves have dropped) and and about 2.3 billion in liabilities and equity financing. If completely dissolved the operation there would be 300 million left. Anything paid on top of that is for the brand.


Further why do you guys act like the Transat purchase agreement is so air tight and unalterable that Jesus Christ himself from down off the cross the couldn’t change it but the ACPA employment contract is just something anyone can tear up and throw away? Either a contract is a contract or everything is up in the air right now.

Hahahaha. Exactly, And not to forget. The TS guys acting like they are not the ones getting bought out

[CFM Symphony]

https://www.flightglobal.com/strategy/c ... 89.article

[DanWEC]

I agree, TS isn't worth a billion.
As for comparing contracts... Union contracts have a different set of language, environment and precedents. At the risk of generalizing, one could say they are 'easier" to break and are worded so as not to entirely handcuff and strangle the company. But that's certainly not a blanket statement. It's its own field of labour law and one I'm pretty green on admittedly.

Regardless I sadly do believe the bottom TS pilots will be the last to be called back.

Hey FL-280? What is that even supposed to mean? Why don't you tell the TS Pilots exactly how they're supposed to act? That's just number 100 of your pointless antagonistic comments. Quite a resume of "contribution" looking back.
I took a quick gander through a few relevant threads and EVERY single comment by a TS pilot regarding AC was in defence of something immature and disparaging said to them first. It's one hell of an obvious pattern.
I'm just glad there are only 2 or 3 of you guys out of the thousands that we will eventually become a family with.

This ponderously circular thread is about 10 pages too long just because of those.

I'd be curious to see some more actual experts weigh in for a mature discussion. I'll do my part by not responding to anything antagonistic, it'll be ignored just like any other whining kid.

Moving on....

Interesting about PGL and Condor. Sounds like since it was just announced in Jan they may have been somewhere early in the agreement, and looked like more of a bailout/rescue. I wonder what their conditions were?

[The Raven]

Air Transat shares are currently trading at $8.30. That’s telling me the smart money (investors) is betting this deal is not going to get done. Am I wrong?

[altiplano]

I think that statement may be a little hyperbolous and antagonistic on its own Dan.

"AC Pilots started it..."

Fact is there has been a lot of insult thrown around here, but you are being willfully blind if that's what you believe. I think some pretty inflammatory and insulting stuff has been posted just because someone had an opinion on the market or share price that someone else didn't like. A lot of taking it personal because someone else didn't like the deal. Isn't that someone's right?

We'll see what happens... time will tell.

[altiplano]

Air Transat shares are currently trading at $8.30. That’s telling me the smart money (investors) is betting this deal is not going to get done. Am I wrong?

Careful... that's apparently an insult to say the market is pricing the risk that the deal won't happen!

[FL320]

Air Transat shares are currently trading at $8.30. That’s telling me the smart money (investors) is betting this deal is not going to get done. Am I wrong?

Careful... that's apparently an insult to say the market is pricing the risk that the deal won't happen!

Yeah few days ago they were at 5.88 and now at 8.30; that just mean investors have no clue. But in few days you will see 18$.
If you guys trust investors, you will never be rich..

[FL-280]

I agree, TS isn't worth a billion.
As for comparing contracts... Union contracts have a different set of language, environment and precedents. At the risk of generalizing, one could say they are 'easier" to break and are worded so as not to entirely handcuff and strangle the company. But that's certainly not a blanket statement. It's its own field of labour law and one I'm pretty green on admittedly.

Regardless I sadly do believe the bottom TS pilots will be the last to be called back.

Hey FL-280? What is that even supposed to mean? Why don't you tell the TS Pilots exactly how they're supposed to act? That's just number 100 of your pointless antagonistic comments. Quite a resume of "contribution" looking back.
I took a quick gander through a few relevant threads and EVERY single comment by a TS pilot regarding AC was in defence of something immature and disparaging said to them first. It's one hell of an obvious pattern.
I'm just glad there are only 2 or 3 of you guys out of the thousands that we will eventually become a family with.

This ponderously circular thread is about 10 pages too long just because of those.

I'd be curious to see some more actual experts weigh in for a mature discussion. I'll do my part by not responding to anything antagonistic, it'll be ignored just like any other whining kid.

Moving on....

Interesting about PGL and Condor. Sounds like since it was just announced in Jan they may have been somewhere early in the agreement, and looked like more of a bailout/rescue. I wonder what their conditions were?

I agree man. I am decent human being and work colleague. I believe I am fun to work with and get along with my peers. But, as an avcanada poster I “let some steam off” for sure. Do I really believe what I am posting? Deep down yes....

For the answer to your post, you are playing the TS card mon ami. That card is the victim card, portraying ac pilots as tyrants. We all lose in this potential merger, everyone one of us. Some things you value, you will lose. But ac pilots lose more. Thats why I believe hell yes at pilots should have a seniority penalty.

I am sure this deal wont happen, and thats not just me hoping. The market thinks the same as I do...

[FL320]

I am sure this deal wont happen, and thats not just me hoping. The market thinks the same as I do...

The market is like you; sure of nothing because nothing is official yet except the fact that the deal is still in progress. AC would have already announced if this would have changed. Just read the last memos from your CEO, they will acquire AT, it couldn’t be more clear but you probably don’t speak the same language?

I am decent human being and work colleague. I believe I am fun to work with and get along with my peers

I look forward to fly with you, I am pretty sure you’re an exceptional FO

[FL-280]

I am sure this deal wont happen, and thats not just me hoping. The market thinks the same as I do...

The market is like you; sure of nothing because nothing is official yet except the fact that the deal is still in progress. AC would have already announced if this would have changed. Just read the last memos from your CEO, they will acquire AT, it couldn’t be more clear but you probably don’t speak the same language?

I am decent human being and work colleague. I believe I am fun to work with and get along with my peers

I look forward to fly with you, I am pretty sure you’re an exceptional FO

What are you talking about? My CBA says you are going bottom of the list...

[altiplano]

I look forward to fly with you, I am pretty sure you’re an exceptional FO

You see? Coments like this have no place in a civil discussion. It's a dick thing to say ie. "I'm coming to take your job." You have zero respect for the difficult situation people are put in. I know it's not AC only, I know TRZ guys liked their deal too, although your deal has fallen apart unfortunately and it's probably not coming back from it, so you're fortunate if this AC acwuisition goes through. Can't you at least see that and respect that we're all taking a hit? And it is AC guys moreso? Particularly now?

Regarding Rovinescu comments. You must not speak "market insider."

He said only exactly what a CEO insider could say, a very measured comment based on what is already official and public knowledge. No more no less. Anything more would have brought the regulators down in him. When it changes it will be a timed press release and the exchange will be notified in advance.

Right now he can wait and see, he doesn't have to say or do anything until the approvals and conditions are met. Although no doubt your management are trying to lock down some more certainty from Rovinescu and perhaps he's seeing what they might offer up to get that. I think he's wait and see what the industry and market and government does while he waits for the rest of the things to play out.

If you think he's just going to let things happen as written I think you're delusional. Things will change to some degree.

[Jmitr]

I am sure this deal wont happen, and thats not just me hoping. The market thinks the same as I do...

The market is like you; sure of nothing because nothing is official yet except the fact that the deal is still in progress. AC would have already announced if this would have changed. Just read the last memos from your CEO, they will acquire AT, it couldn’t be more clear but you probably don’t speak the same language?

I am decent human being and work colleague. I believe I am fun to work with and get along with my peers

I look forward to fly with you, I am pretty sure you’re an exceptional FO

What are you talking about? My CBA says you are going bottom of the list...

With all due respect, what are you talking about?

If you are a fellow AC Pilot, no, our CBA does NOT say that. If it did, why would we need a merger committee?

As I stated in my interview for that committee, the most important thing to remember is at the end of the day we will ALL be Air Canada Pilots. We have to remember that and treat each other with the respect and professionalism that truth deserves. At the end of the day, the real negotiations will not be against fellow Pilots but the Company.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

This thread reminds me of a film I saw years ago. It takes place in Africa around 1915 at the border of French and German colonies who live peacefully side by side. The war has been waging in Europe for months when the white French colonists find out about it. The white French forcefully enlist and arm black Africans on their side to go attack the German side, whose soldiers are also enlisted Africans, all fighting for their respective motherlands in Europe. Over several skirmishes, African enlisted-men die on both sides.
It all ends when other African troops, these fighting for Great Britain, attack the German colony in a different location and defeat it.......
Of course, not a single white man dies in combat.........

In reality, at the end of WW-I, all the defeated German colonies became French or British colonies, but the Africans remained colonized, just by a different master.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_and_White_in_Color

What I am trying to say, is by all means, lets discuss the war in Europe, let us defend our interests, but lets not fight the white man's war for them while they watch us rip each other apart..........

[timeflies]

delete(endless debate)

[Hangry]

I am sure this deal wont happen, and thats not just me hoping. The market thinks the same as I do...

The market is like you; sure of nothing because nothing is official yet except the fact that the deal is still in progress. AC would have already announced if this would have changed. Just read the last memos from your CEO, they will acquire AT, it couldn’t be more clear but you probably don’t speak the same language?

I am decent human being and work colleague. I believe I am fun to work with and get along with my peers

I look forward to fly with you, I am pretty sure you’re an exceptional FO

Gross

[FL320]

You see? Coments like this have no place in a civil discussion. It's a dick thing to say ie. "I'm coming to take your job." You have zero respect for the difficult situation people are put in.

It’s your own interpretation and you turn it negatively. I don’t see anything insulting in my words (plus I don’t want to take his job ...).

Do you have any idea why WS is now laying off 1700 pilots even with the CEWS?

[JoeyBarton]

No do you?
They keep some flights they layoff almost everybody.
You guys have cancelled and recalled everybody back.
I must have not understood something somewhere