Coronavirus Numbers

[Rockie]

Common sense, basic memory and this article it make it explicitly clear world hunger predates the pandemic. The prime concerns right now are money and keeping the supply chains open.

Keeping supply chains open during this pandemic is a preoccupation for governments everywhere and they are for the most part succeeding. My grocery store isn’t short of anything but flour and yeast. Keeping supply chains open in the developing world while more challenging for many reasons having nothing to do with the pandemic, is not impossible during the pandemic and with the health measures in place. As far as money goes that is a question more of priorities than availability which has always been and always will be the case. Pandemic or not.

[schnitzel2k3]

Common sense, basic memory and this article it make it explicitly clear world hunger predates the pandemic. The prime concerns right now are money and keeping the supply chains open.

Keeping supply chains open during this pandemic is a preoccupation for governments everywhere and they are for the most part succeeding. My grocery store isn’t short of anything but flour and yeast. Keeping supply chains open in the developing world while more challenging for many reasons having nothing to do with the pandemic, is not impossible during the pandemic and with the health measures in place. As far as money goes that is a question more of priorities than availability which has always been and always will be the case. Pandemic or not.

Everyone's baking fancy breads - thanks social media

[RippleRock]

Even if you stick to the actual numbers showing up in hospitals, we are at only a fraction of the "best case" scenario projected overall.

Who would have thunk that the elderly in "close proximity long term care facilities" would produce the largest mortality numbers, and the most overall cases as a percentage of sub-groups?

Unreal. My 6 year old could have foreseen this before the Trudeau Government did. They are good at "reacting", that's about it.

Is anyone truly surprised?

WTF does Trudeau have to do with your argument? Scheer, Singh and all the other leaders have mostly been in support of how the Liberals have handled this. And that’s something that never happens in politics. I didn’t vote for Trudeau (also not for Scheer) but I would argue that the Liberals (and the other parties in support) have done a decent job of handling this. This is uncharted territory for everyone, including the government. Everyone is learning as they go.

One of the reasons the conservatives lost the last two elections is the Trudeau-hate gets so out of control that it’s hard to take you guys seriously. Somehow absolutely everything becomes his fault.

Maybe the reason that we are only at a fraction of the scary numbers is because this issue has been handled relatively well in our country. We don’t need to look any further than our neighbours to the south to see what happens when you don’t have real leadership.

Sure the media dramatizes everything. So do politicians. I’m happy to let the doctors take the lead on this one. Pretty sure they know more than your 6 year old

When we are seeing numbers that are a --fraction-- of the "best case scenario", that means the approach was too overbearing. Justin led that approach = he is responsible. We will take --years-- to build up "herd immunity" at this rate, since a vaccine is still the better part of a year off.

Unless you haven't noticed the Economy is a very fragile entity. Shutting down "everything non-essential" is an over-reach. This cost jobs, and puts us further into negative territory. We are falling FAST down the wrong side of a slippery slope. It's Justin's responsibility to --at minimum-- slow that slide. He should be working very hard to identify and open as many "low risk" businesses and manufacturing facilities that he possibly can, as fast as he can.

The numbers show that the elderly and infirm are --by far-- the highest risk demographic. There should have been an --immediate concentrated effort-- to isolate them from the virus. They constitute 95% of the fatalities, and over 80% of the serious cases. He patently failed in this regard.

Businesses and manufacturing facilities that --don't have-- the "at risk demographic", or patronage, should be --open for business-- with safety procedures in place.

JT is the Prime Minister, meaning he holds the reigns. He has everything to do with it.

[TheStig]

As someone said, "The cure is worse than the disease".

ALL CAPS. The POTUS tweeted on March 22nd.


Donald J. Trump
✔
@realDonaldTrump

WE CANNOT LET THE CURE BE WORSE THAN THE PROBLEM ITSELF. AT THE END OF THE 15 DAY PERIOD, WE WILL MAKE A DECISION AS TO WHICH WAY WE WANT TO GO!
323K
11:50 PM - Mar 22, 2020

[Rockie]

He should be working very hard to identify and open as many "low risk" businesses and manufacturing facilities that he possibly can, as fast as he can.

Don't worry RippleRock, I'm sure that very topic keeps him awake at night since he has no desire to see the world end either. Don't take the fact he doesn't consult you on it as evidence he's not doing exactly as you suggest, even if he didn't it's probable somebody in his office thought of this before you did.

[BTD]

When we are seeing numbers that are a --fraction-- of the "best case scenario", that means the approach was too overbearing.

Wtf?

Best case scenario is not a target like that. If you do miss it on the good side by doing what is recommended, that is a good thing not bad. The models were built on incomplete data and assumptions. That is part of the reason they are given a range. They are not a decree that this is what will happen if x y z is done.

With that argument you would be happier if we had all these restrictions in place, but more people were dying.

I do think an argument could be made that the approach was too overbearing. But the above barely even registers as an argument.

[altiplano]

When we are seeing numbers that are a --fraction-- of the "best case scenario", that means the approach was too overbearing.

Wtf?

Best case scenario is not a target like that. If you do miss it on the good side by doing what is recommended, that is a good thing not bad. The models were built on incomplete data and assumptions. That is part of the reason they are given a range. They are not a decree that this is what will happen if x y z is done.

With that argument you would be happier if we had all these restrictions in place, but more people were dying.

I do think an argument could be made that the approach was too overbearing. But the above barely even registers as an argument.

I don't think an argument needs to be made. The projection v. reality speaks for itself.

It's clear that the expert forecast was way off and that projection was what drove policy. We are well under the deaths and cases that were projected. Those big numbers were designed to scare people and justify the overbearing response.

Even with all the good news on the trajectory of this situation, the politicians won't even put forth a plan for what the recovery will look like, let alone tell their bylaw/enforcement minions to back off of their power trips.

I saw my neighbours get reported a couple days ago... Bylaw and fire showed up to put out their BBQ with what appeared to be 5 or 6 30-something adults. Enough is enough.

Meanwhile, in Sweden, where they simply informed their population and ASKED for best practices from their citizens and refused to legislate authoritarian measures against personal rights, or completely close the economy, businesses, schools, they have flattened the curve, not overwhelmed their health care, and are in a better position to rebound off this than the rest of Europe.

[2R]

The lack of infections in the leadership of the source country is suspicious , maybe they already have been vaccinated

[RippleRock]

He should be working very hard to identify and open as many "low risk" businesses and manufacturing facilities that he possibly can, as fast as he can.

Don't worry RippleRock, I'm sure that very topic keeps him awake at night since he has no desire to see the world end either. Don't take the fact he doesn't consult you on it as evidence he's not doing exactly as you suggest, even if he didn't it's probable somebody in his office thought of this before you did.

I know who you are.

Some of us aren't retired. You're likely feeling little inconvenience other than passing on a golf game or two.

I and my contemporaries will be paying for this long after you're gone.

[TG]

Connection issues. Triple post!

[TG]

double post

[TG]

I don't think an argument needs to be made. The projection v. reality speaks for itself.

It's clear that the expert forecast was way off and that projection was what drove policy. We are well under the deaths and cases that were projected. Those big numbers were designed to scare people and justify the overbearing response.

Even with all the good news on the trajectory of this situation, the politicians won't even put forth a plan for what the recovery will look like, let alone tell their bylaw/enforcement minions to back off of their power trips.

I saw my neighbours get reported a couple days ago... Bylaw and fire showed up to put out their BBQ with what appeared to be 5 or 6 30-something adults. Enough is enough.

Meanwhile, in Sweden, where they simply informed their population and ASKED for best practices from their citizens and refused to legislate authoritarian measures against personal rights, or completely close the economy, businesses, schools, they have flattened the curve, not overwhelmed their health care, and are in a better position to rebound off this than the rest of Europe.

Swedens are way more disciplined than Latins! They will follow government's recommendations without the need of implementing a massive lockdown.

And speaking about "expert forecast" Projections has to be tempered by lockdowns effects so no surprise that reality seems better.

Kind of like why such a difference between Italie and Greece for example.
Greece was very quick taking its decision (no real choices, old population and ruined down health care) The Greek followed suit with no problem, their respect towards elders probably helped.
Hence their "in control" low number.


I think....

[hamstandard]

He should be working very hard to identify and open as many "low risk" businesses and manufacturing facilities that he possibly can, as fast as he can.

Don't worry RippleRock, I'm sure that very topic keeps him awake at night since he has no desire to see the world end either. Don't take the fact he doesn't consult you on it as evidence he's not doing exactly as you suggest, even if he didn't it's probable somebody in his office thought of this before you did.

I know who you are.

Some of us aren't retired. You're likely feeling little inconvenience other than passing on a golf game or two.

I and my contemporaries will be paying for this long after you're gone.

Are you telling us that Rockie is retired. No wonder he is not worried about job losses. And no wonder he wants the lockdown to continue.

Save the older folks with a QUARANTINE while the rest get working.

[Rockie]

I know who you are.

Some of us aren't retired. You're likely feeling little inconvenience other than passing on a golf game or two.

I and my contemporaries will be paying for this long after you're gone.

re you telling us that Rockie is retired. No wonder he is not worried about job losses. And no wonder he wants the lockdown to continue.

Save the older folks with a QUARANTINE while the rest get working.

You guys have such narrow thinking. It's somehow beyond you to understand that these measures effect retired people too, or that those retired people may have loved ones still working...maybe even in this industry. Or that retired people may give a shit about people like you. Or that retired people may have a brain in their heads and are capable of thinking beyond the immediate consequences right in front of their faces.

Kids....

[ayseven]

Decisions have been made based on information available at the time. I went to Europe in February, and I thought it was pretty much safe. I came back in a half empty airplane, and it didn't feel so safe then. The virus was out there the whole time.

Nice to know who will throw us under the bus just to justify their own aims. This affects everyone, children. And as I have said about 3 times already: very old people are looked after by younger people - you can't vacuum wrap them.

There are no simple solutions, and I wish people would stop pretending there are, when they have no idea what they are talking about. Do the experts know everything? NO, but they know MORE THAN YOU.

These are hard times right now. But they won't last. Life experience basically teaches us that we can put up with almost anything.

[hamstandard]

I know who you are.

Some of us aren't retired. You're likely feeling little inconvenience other than passing on a golf game or two.

I and my contemporaries will be paying for this long after you're gone.

re you telling us that Rockie is retired. No wonder he is not worried about job losses. And no wonder he wants the lockdown to continue.

Save the older folks with a QUARANTINE while the rest get working.

Or that retired people may have a brain in their heads and are capable of thinking beyond the immediate consequences right in front of their faces.

Kids....

Looks like we have one retired guy that isn't thinking too much:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/in ... spartandhp

"The coronavirus pandemic has brought hunger to millions of people around the world. National lockdowns and social distancing measures are drying up work and incomes, and are likely to disrupt agricultural production and supply routes — leaving millions to worry how they will get enough to eat."

Time to get the world economy going. Rockie can isolate for the rest of his life.

That is what thinking beyond immediate consequences does. THE CURE IS WORSE THAN THE DISEASE.

[Rockie]

Really? You're quoting Trump?

There are very well publicized conditions that have to be met before opening up the economy can be considered safe. Why don't you devote your energies to expediting those conditions instead of agitating for premature re-opening?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2 ... rc=nl_most

['97 Tercel]

Kids....

[Rockie]

Kids....

Some of us aren't retired. You're likely feeling little inconvenience other than passing on a golf game or two.

Indeed.

[ayseven]

Not true. Investments are also way down.

[hamstandard]

Kids....

Some of us aren't retired. You're likely feeling little inconvenience other than passing on a golf game or two.

Indeed.

Hey, why worry about a few hundred million people in the third world when one can say they really made a sacrifice of the back nine.

THE CURE IS WORSE THAN THE DISEASE.

Quarantine the ones who need it and start the economy.

[Rockie]

THE CURE IS WORSE THAN THE DISEASE.

Quarantine the ones who need it and start the economy.

The ones who need it will be quarantined until there is a vaccine. The economy will re-start but it will be done in a controlled manner (except for portions of the United States). What that means is this:

1. The infected numbers must come down. Not level off...come down.

2. The health services must be protected and their work load has to come down to sustainable levels (see #1). This is also so that medical needs besides Covid 19 can be taken care of which is not happening now.

3. There must be sufficient testing and contact tracing in place to handle the inevitable number of new cases that will result because...the virus MUST BE CONTAINED.

4. People are going to have to be smart and continue with sensible precautions like masks and social distancing as much as possible. No sweaty, saliva filled orgies until there is a vaccine.

All of this will need to be closely monitored constantly. Only if it works can more of the economy be set loose, but if it makes the situation worse then it must be more restrictive. That's just the way it is.

This is all according to the experts who we must place our trust in.

[rxl]

Some of us aren't retired. You're likely feeling little inconvenience other than passing on a golf game or two.

I and my contemporaries will be paying for this long after you're gone.

Guess what? Retired people pay taxes and are an integral part of the economy JUST LIKE YOU.

Retired people are your family, friends and neighbours who actually do a lot of volunteer work that’s of great value to society. They’ve contributed and continue to contribute their share, and in many cases, more than their share.

Before you know it, you’ll be retired too.

[ayseven]

And more importantly right now, they MIX with you whippersnappers, who think you can put old people away and have them do everything for themselves. Sorry to upset people with that one, but that is not what happens. I don't think this disease is much fun for anybody who gets it, I don't want it, and don't want my neighbours kids to get it either, thank you. So quite whining, and stay in. You think you are the only one having problems with this situation? Well, you are not.

[Eric Janson]

I think the public won’t put up staying home for much longer. It goes against your civil rights to tell you how many people can gather within your own home.
The prolonged affect of isolation will cause more damage than being infected. We live on an economic planet.
The economy needs to keep moving forward to prevent more severe consequences.

Captain Kirk

Well this is good opportunity for you (and others) to learn something about our Economy.

Start by typing "Money as Debt" into a search engine and watch the video.

If you want more information "Fractional Reserve Banking" will also bring up some very interesting articles.

Then do some research into "Derivatives" - and find out that there is a Quadrillion Dollars (I had to look it up - a 1 with 15 zeroes) of unfunded liabilities out there (about 15 times Global GDP).

Then type in "Bank of Canada" and learn how it's not the Government but a private banking cartel that controls the money in Canada.

Do some research on the Rothschilds.

It's possible the Corona Virus is the trigger that will collapse the entire Financial System (just a bit earlier than what would have happened anyway imho).