A220 cruising altitude

Discuss topics relating to airlines.

Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, North Shore

palebird
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 265
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:17 am

Re: A220 cruising altitude

Post by palebird »

Typical Bombardier product.
---------- ADS -----------
 
goldeneagle
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1177
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 3:28 pm

Re: A220 cruising altitude

Post by goldeneagle »

palebird wrote: Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:49 pm Typical Bombardier product.
Didn't the engine come from Pratt ?
---------- ADS -----------
 
notwhoyouthinkIam
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 514
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:49 am

Re: A220 cruising altitude

Post by notwhoyouthinkIam »

goldeneagle wrote: Fri Mar 20, 2020 4:06 pm
palebird wrote: Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:49 pm Typical Bombardier product.
Didn't the engine come from Pratt ?
Shh.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
telex
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 634
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:05 pm

Re: A220 cruising altitude

Post by telex »

---------- ADS -----------
 
Liberalism itself as a religion where its tenets cannot be proven, but provides a sense of moral rectitude at no real cost.
User avatar
Daniel Cooper
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 335
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:38 am
Location: Unknown

Re: A220 cruising altitude

Post by Daniel Cooper »

Wow it's caused by resonance. Some engineer is getting fired.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Fanblade
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1693
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:50 pm

Re: A220 cruising altitude

Post by Fanblade »

Inverted2 wrote: Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:17 pm Just like modern appliances. High tech and efficient but don’t last very long.
Lol,

That sounds exactly like the critics of the “plastic A320” over 30 years ago. It will never last!

All new tech has growing pains. These new geared engines are a huge leap. Give it time.

Maintaince nicknamed the A320 the A360 back in the day. It would go out and need a computer reset. Back to the gate. Reset and leave.

They nicknamed the E190 the E180. It left the gate and needed a computer reset. Back to the gate and stayed.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Gino Under
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 833
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 12:06 pm

Re: A220 cruising altitude

Post by Gino Under »

It’s not an Auto Throttle issue.
It’s an engine issue.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
telex
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 634
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:05 pm

Re: A220 cruising altitude

Post by telex »

Gino Under wrote: Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:36 am It’s not an Auto Throttle issue.
It’s an engine issue.
Software...
---------- ADS -----------
 
Liberalism itself as a religion where its tenets cannot be proven, but provides a sense of moral rectitude at no real cost.
BMLtech
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 150
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:37 pm

Re: A220 cruising altitude

Post by BMLtech »

Not a really a software issue, engines are blowing due to internal resonance and vibration. Problem can be addressed by a software load that will prevent the fadec from operating in the range that the resonance occurs.
https://www.flightglobal.com/safety/a22 ... 58.article
---------- ADS -----------
 
Gino Under
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 833
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 12:06 pm

Re: A220 cruising altitude

Post by Gino Under »

But, it’s software that regulates the engine core speeds causing the engine resonance and vibration issue through the FADEC/EEC which are software dependent. The rest is just a bunch of metal bits whizzing around at great speed under high temperature extremes. And it does so very quietly, I might add.
So far, it looks like just the Swiss who’ve had IFSDs on their 300s.
Better safe than sorry.
Are we throwing bombardier under the bus for this one? I noticed some like to, that’s all.
Airbus anyone?

Cheers
:partyman:
Gino Under
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
telex
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 634
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:05 pm

Re: A220 cruising altitude

Post by telex »

---------- ADS -----------
 
Liberalism itself as a religion where its tenets cannot be proven, but provides a sense of moral rectitude at no real cost.
co-joe
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4562
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 2:33 am
Location: YYC 230 degree radial at about 10 DME

Re: A220 cruising altitude

Post by co-joe »

This post intentionally left blank.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Last edited by co-joe on Thu May 07, 2020 9:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
BMLtech
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 150
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:37 pm

Re: A220 cruising altitude

Post by BMLtech »

https://www.flightglobal.com/safety/a22 ... 69.article

Often when they try to correct an issue with a software load, it ends up causing a new unforeseen issue.
---------- ADS -----------
 
teacher
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2450
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 3:25 pm

Re: A220 cruising altitude

Post by teacher »

Seems to be happening to new engines only. These engines are built to such tight tolerances that anything slightly out can cause an issue. Once the engines seem to get some time on them and “loosen up” they seem ok.

It’s a combination software and hardware fix. Word is maybe the fix will be approved by next spring. There is a procedure to climb above FL290 but most companies have decided the risks are not worth the reward.

As for costs, well, at FL290 the burn is similar to an E190 but with 39 more seats and lots more cargo room.
---------- ADS -----------
 
https://eresonatemedia.com/
https://bambaits.ca/
https://youtube.com/channel/UCWit8N8YCJSvSaiSw5EWWeQ
User avatar
telex
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 634
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:05 pm

Re: A220 cruising altitude

Post by telex »

teacher wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:04 pm Seems to be happening to new engines only. These engines are built to such tight tolerances that anything slightly out can cause an issue. Once the engines seem to get some time on them and “loosen up” they seem ok.

It’s a combination software and hardware fix. Word is maybe the fix will be approved by next spring. There is a procedure to climb above FL290 but most companies have decided the risks are not worth the reward.

As for costs, well, at FL290 the burn is similar to an E190 but with 39 more seats and lots more cargo room.
What companies are those? Disengaging the A/T is too great a risk?
---------- ADS -----------
 
Liberalism itself as a religion where its tenets cannot be proven, but provides a sense of moral rectitude at no real cost.
ZBBYLW
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 571
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:28 am

Re: A220 cruising altitude

Post by ZBBYLW »

telex wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:10 pm
teacher wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:04 pm Seems to be happening to new engines only. These engines are built to such tight tolerances that anything slightly out can cause an issue. Once the engines seem to get some time on them and “loosen up” they seem ok.

It’s a combination software and hardware fix. Word is maybe the fix will be approved by next spring. There is a procedure to climb above FL290 but most companies have decided the risks are not worth the reward.

As for costs, well, at FL290 the burn is similar to an E190 but with 39 more seats and lots more cargo room.
What companies are those? Disengaging the A/T is too great a risk?
They probably aren't afraid of the pilots flying around without AutoThrust. AC encourages it, but if the tolerances are exceeded that will be several million dollars. Best burn a bit more fuel than blow up an engine.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Blue42
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue May 30, 2017 11:33 am

Re: A220 cruising altitude

Post by Blue42 »

telex wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:10 pm
teacher wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:04 pm Seems to be happening to new engines only. These engines are built to such tight tolerances that anything slightly out can cause an issue. Once the engines seem to get some time on them and “loosen up” they seem ok.

It’s a combination software and hardware fix. Word is maybe the fix will be approved by next spring. There is a procedure to climb above FL290 but most companies have decided the risks are not worth the reward.

As for costs, well, at FL290 the burn is similar to an E190 but with 39 more seats and lots more cargo room.
What companies are those? Disengaging the A/T is too great a risk?


Air Baltic is the only one that operates the 300s above FL290
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “General Airline Industry Comments”