Open the door, no thanks

[Loon-A-Tic]

I'm thinking that access along the 49th parallel should stay closed for another little while given this intell.

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/this-map-sho ... -1.5012933

[Launchpad1]

That picture shows it very clearly, the difference between the US and Canada is huge! I agree, no way should the border re-open at the moment.

[HavaJava]

As with all data, the reality is much more nuanced than a simple twitter post can show.

Here’s the reality:

- the mortality rate in the US is plummeting. Nationally, it has been in the 0.5% range for a week.

- New York, New Jersey, and Massachusetts were the basket cases of the US. They made horrible decisions in the beginning (such as sending sick patients back into long term care facilities) that led to a criminally large death rate. Their case rate is dropping, but their mortality rate is still up to 10 times higher than the rest of the nation.

- the media loves to paint states like Texas and Florida as a bunch of redneck idiots that can’t follow directions, however one thing that they are not mentioning is that their death rates are incredibly low. They are lower than Canada (94 and 176 per million respectively compared to 230 per million in Canada. On top of that, their death rate for the last week is in the 0.25% range. Even without correcting for unaccounted cases (up to 10x more), that puts COVID exactly in the seasonal flu mortality rate range.

So, there are really 2 ways to account for this. Either the Southern states are actually managing and treating the virus incredibly well or the virus is mutating into a much weaker form. Personally, I believe that as long as it is kept out of long term care homes (which New York, New Jersey, Ontario and Quebec so utterly failed at) it is a virus that is completely manageable and treatable.

So, let’s keep the border closed...not because of those dirty diseased Americans...but because of Canadian incompetence and our inability to learn the important lessons the Southern States are teaching us.

[Rooster69]

Where did you get the mortality rate numbers?

Most of the information that I can find about Canadian numbers is just the infection rates. I can’t find death rates of the infected, nor the hospitalizations of those infected. Canadian information is scarce vie a vie secondary heath issues.

[photofly]

So, let’s keep the border closed...not because of those dirty diseased Americans...but because of Canadian incompetence and our inability to learn the important lessons the Southern States are teaching us.

I’m sorry... I had a fantasy that you started your post talking about “nuance”...

[AirFrame]

As with all data, the reality is much more nuanced than a simple twitter post can show.

Right. Total deaths to date: US - 130,310, Can - 8,748. It doesn't get much more "nuanced" than that.

So, let’s keep the border closed...not because of those dirty diseased Americans...but because of Canadian incompetence and our inability to learn the important lessons the Southern States are teaching us.

Sure... They're teaching us that anti-vaxxers are right, that all you have to do is force all the sick people together, build immunity through transmission, and accept a high attrition rate in the interim.

[stef]

Was this map pulled from social media by chance? At a glance, looks like Norway House, Nakina and La Grande are among our hotspots.

[lownslow]

Was this map pulled from social media by chance? At a glance, looks like Norway House, Nakina and La Grande are among our hotspots.

Per capita, maybe? Or just made up.

[photofly]

I actually couldn’t find on a chart any evidence of human habitation close to where that red spot in Quebec is located. Must be a secret government site, visible only from those special COVID-19 detecting satellites Bill Gates created.

[Loon-A-Tic]

HavaJava, please offer a bit more on this thought, I quote

"So, let’s keep the border closed...not because of those dirty diseased Americans...but because of Canadian incompetence and our inability to learn the important lessons the Southern States are teaching us."

Are you saying Canada needs to follow the America approach to managing the Coivd19 pandemic !!!

[mbav8r]

Where did you get the mortality rate numbers?

Most of the information that I can find about Canadian numbers is just the infection rates. I can’t find death rates of the infected, nor the hospitalizations of those infected. Canadian information is scarce vie a vie secondary heath issues.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
I’ve been watching this site, not sure where they get the information, I believe it mentions the WHO as the source, at any rate it shows the US having a death rate twice of Canada’s per million.
You can also view individual states stats as well.

[BTD]

I believe worldometer and most places are getting their information from John Hopkins University.

[HavaJava]

Where did you get the mortality rate numbers?

Most of the information that I can find about Canadian numbers is just the infection rates. I can’t find death rates of the infected, nor the hospitalizations of those infected. Canadian information is scarce vie a vie secondary heath issues.

Worldometer seems to be an accurate compiler of stats. They breakdown the US by states but unfortunately they don’t breakdown Canada by province.

[HavaJava]

Where did you get the mortality rate numbers?

Most of the information that I can find about Canadian numbers is just the infection rates. I can’t find death rates of the infected, nor the hospitalizations of those infected. Canadian information is scarce vie a vie secondary heath issues.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
I’ve been watching this site, not sure where they get the information, I believe it mentions the WHO as the source, at any rate it shows the US having a death rate twice of Canada’s per million.
You can also view individual states stats as well.

Yes, but the US’s death rate was heavily skewed by the brutal job the Northeastern states did in April/May. Since June the death rate is similar to Canada. If you look at just the southern states, it is much better than Canada.

[HavaJava]

HavaJava, please offer a bit more on this thought, I quote

"So, let’s keep the border closed...not because of those dirty diseased Americans...but because of Canadian incompetence and our inability to learn the important lessons the Southern States are teaching us."

Are you saying Canada needs to follow the America approach to managing the Coivd19 pandemic !!!

Yup, the southern states have done an amazing job of managing and treating the virus. Time to learn how to live with Covid instead of the fools game of trying to eradicate it.

[Heliian]

As with all data, the reality is much more nuanced than a simple twitter post can show.

Here’s the reality:

- the mortality rate in the US is plummeting. Nationally, it has been in the 0.5% range for a week.

- New York, New Jersey, and Massachusetts were the basket cases of the US. They made horrible decisions in the beginning (such as sending sick patients back into long term care facilities) that led to a criminally large death rate. Their case rate is dropping, but their mortality rate is still up to 10 times higher than the rest of the nation.

- the media loves to paint states like Texas and Florida as a bunch of redneck idiots that can’t follow directions, however one thing that they are not mentioning is that their death rates are incredibly low. They are lower than Canada (94 and 176 per million respectively compared to 230 per million in Canada. On top of that, their death rate for the last week is in the 0.25% range. Even without correcting for unaccounted cases (up to 10x more), that puts COVID exactly in the seasonal flu mortality rate range.

So, there are really 2 ways to account for this. Either the Southern states are actually managing and treating the virus incredibly well or the virus is mutating into a much weaker form. Personally, I believe that as long as it is kept out of long term care homes (which New York, New Jersey, Ontario and Quebec so utterly failed at) it is a virus that is completely manageable and treatable.

So, let’s keep the border closed...not because of those dirty diseased Americans...but because of Canadian incompetence and our inability to learn the important lessons the Southern States are teaching us.

Your numbers are not real numbers of anything. The overall infected death rate is almost 5%

Per capita, the usa has 60% more deaths than us

Interestingly, our overall infected death rate is almost 8%, this I believe can be attributed to clusters of cases in the nursing homes.

Our numbers are dropping, we're doing well, keep up with the measures put in place and we'll be alright.

My numbers are from the WHO daily situation report #168

[flyguy73]

HavaJava, please offer a bit more on this thought, I quote

"So, let’s keep the border closed...not because of those dirty diseased Americans...but because of Canadian incompetence and our inability to learn the important lessons the Southern States are teaching us."

Are you saying Canada needs to follow the America approach to managing the Coivd19 pandemic !!!

Yup, the southern states have done an amazing job of managing and treating the virus. Time to learn how to live with Covid instead of the fools game of trying to eradicate it.

Unfortunately, in many cases, deaths are not attributed to COVID-19, but rather to underlying reasons such as diabetes or heart disease. This is a new reporting technique in order to make it appear that mortality is not as bad as it really is.

Do you really think the Southern USA has a mortality that is 10% that of Germany? It is curious to note that the countries that are leading the way in terms of numbers of infections (USA, Brazil, Russia, India), have somehow managed to reduce the mortality markedly compared to other countries. What else is common among these countries?

[goldeneagle]

Yes, but the US’s death rate was heavily skewed by the brutal job the Northeastern states did in April/May. Since June the death rate is similar to Canada. If you look at just the southern states, it is much better than Canada.

Well, if we are going to start cherry picking data, then for the Canadian numbers, if you exclude Ontario and Quebec, then numbers in Canada will once again look far better than those southern states you think are doing so well.

Numbers can tell a lot, and you can make them say anything you want when you start cherry picking data points.

[Rockie]

HavaJava, please offer a bit more on this thought, I quote

"So, let’s keep the border closed...not because of those dirty diseased Americans...but because of Canadian incompetence and our inability to learn the important lessons the Southern States are teaching us."

Are you saying Canada needs to follow the America approach to managing the Coivd19 pandemic !!!

Yup, the southern states have done an amazing job of managing and treating the virus. Time to learn how to live with Covid instead of the fools game of trying to eradicate it.

Can you point to any medical or government source stating an intent, or even a faint hope of “eradicating” Covid 19? It’s called “managing”, something one half of the United States flatly refuses to do and now are paying for it. As for the mortality rate in the US, wait for it.

[HavaJava]

HavaJava, please offer a bit more on this thought, I quote

"So, let’s keep the border closed...not because of those dirty diseased Americans...but because of Canadian incompetence and our inability to learn the important lessons the Southern States are teaching us."

Are you saying Canada needs to follow the America approach to managing the Coivd19 pandemic !!!

Yup, the southern states have done an amazing job of managing and treating the virus. Time to learn how to live with Covid instead of the fools game of trying to eradicate it.

Can you point to any medical or government source stating an intent, or even a faint hope of “eradicating” Covid 19? It’s called “managing”, something one half of the United States flatly refuses to do and now are paying for it. As for the mortality rate in the US, wait for it.

Ok...let’s wait 2 weeks for your doomsday to happen. When it doesn’t, will you admit that you were wrong?

Yeah, that’s what I thought...

I’m done arguing or even debating with people who are so ignorant to the facts and so obviously don’t give a damn about the medium to long term health/societal/economic impact in Canada.

For those that believe there is a better way forward in living with Covid, please don’t give up, even in the face of massive ignorance, arrogance, and fear.

[Canuck1988]

Yup, the southern states have done an amazing job of managing and treating the virus. Time to learn how to live with Covid instead of the fools game of trying to eradicate it.

Can you point to any medical or government source stating an intent, or even a faint hope of “eradicating” Covid 19? It’s called “managing”, something one half of the United States flatly refuses to do and now are paying for it. As for the mortality rate in the US, wait for it.

Ok...let’s wait 2 weeks for your doomsday to happen. When it doesn’t, will you admit that you were wrong?

Yeah, that’s what I thought...

I’m done arguing or even debating with people who are so ignorant to the facts and so obviously don’t give a damn about the medium to long term health/societal/economic impact in Canada.

For those that believe there is a better way forward in living with Covid, please don’t give up, even in the face of massive ignorance, arrogance, and fear.

I get what you are saying HavaJava with your numbers, but I also agree with the "wait for it". Florida and Texas' larger scaled out breaks are still relatively young. Their hospitals are just reaching capacity now, which means they are going to have to start making tough decisions on who gets ICU beds and who doesn't - that's when the mortality rate in those states will (probably) start climbing.

I hope you are right.

[Rockie]

Ok...let’s wait 2 weeks for your doomsday to happen. When it doesn’t, will you admit that you were wrong?

A couple of weeks ago they predicted a massive increase in numbers of infections thanks to premature opening that defied medical and even US federal guidelines. And lo...there they are. Did you admit when you were wrong? Fauci is predicting 100,000 new cases per day by the end of July, and when the infections progress from the young healthy party goers to elderly Floridians the death rate will go up. Will you admit you were wrong when it does?

[Canuck1988]

Was this map pulled from social media by chance? At a glance, looks like Norway House, Nakina and La Grande are among our hotspots.

I actually couldn’t find on a chart any evidence of human habitation close to where that red spot in Quebec is located. Must be a secret government site, visible only from those special COVID-19 detecting satellites Bill Gates created.

It's from John Hopkins University. It's due to the type of map. I don't know if the type has a name. The hotspots are placed in the centre of a geographic region - in Canada's case the provinces/territories. In the US, it is each individual county. The size represents the amount of cases, hence why it looks like there are huge outbreaks in random northern communities in Canada.

[photofly]

Clearly.

But if you matched the US style of graphing, you would find a bunch of red dots all around the GTA, for example, with no real distinction between north and south of the border. And the absence of any red dots significantly north of the US Canada border, and the absence of cases there, is because of the absence of people there.

It’s inappropriate to use this map to make any point at all about US vs Canadian infection rates or policies.

[Loon-A-Tic]

It was likely only presented as a "indicator" by CTV and not the gospel, apparently that is being written by The Donald, he has all the answers just ask him he's usually very happy to give his expert "opinion"