At least somebody is starting to do something......even if it's not much right now. Lets just hope it builds slow and the rug doesn't come out from under us.
Sunwing has welcomed back its first passengers since the early days of the pandemic, with guests arriving in Cancun and Montego Bay for some fun in the sun this past weekend.
Andrew Dawson, President of Tour Operations for Sunwing, welcomed the news and anticipates travellers making their way to the tropics in the fall and winter seasons.
The tour operator will be offering a limited schedule in September with service from Toronto to Cancun, Varadero, Cayo Coco, Punta Cana and Montego Bay, as well as from Montreal to Cancun, Punta Cana, Varadero and Cayo Coco.
Looks great, except these were Sunwing vacations operated on Air Canada aircraft, not Sunwing aircraft.
The Sunwing Tour Group and Sunwing Vacations are still active, but it looks like they're using other carrier's to get their passengers down south while the airline remains grounded.
DHC-1 Jockey wrote: ↑Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:44 am
Looks great, except these were Sunwing vacations operated on Air Canada aircraft, not Sunwing aircraft.
The Sunwing Tour Group and Sunwing Vacations are still active, but it looks like they're using other carrier's to get their passengers down south while the airline remains grounded.
Glad to hear things are starting up, hope it won't lead to a knee jerk reaction of closing everything down again when infection numbers start to rise.
It's not exactly a win for the Sunwing pilots since we are still sitting on our tails. Technically we are employed by WG, under the CEWS program and are all listed as "OFL" or offline - except for management. CEWS is basically a slightly scaled down year 1 F/O wage with no benefits but is company wide for the pilots. It's better than CERB but not as good as being back to work. Bringing even a few senior pilots back to go through sims, get requalified etc would start the ball rolling. I have no idea (other than money) as to why they (WG management) have not recalled even a few people. The current CBA doesn't have any provision (scope clause) for this situation. Who would have predicted an all pilot layoff scenario?
Assuming there is no radcal Aussie style shutdown due to a second wave, and assuming that Justin removes the 14 day quarantine then things may just come roaring back. Good luck ploughing everyone through sim in October if that happens.
The fact that travel is re-starting is a good thing I agree. Pity it's not the WG pilots doing the flying.
DHC-1 Jockey wrote: ↑Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:44 am
Looks great, except these were Sunwing vacations operated on Air Canada aircraft, not Sunwing aircraft.
The Sunwing Tour Group and Sunwing Vacations are still active, but it looks like they're using other carrier's to get their passengers down south while the airline remains grounded.
All true - but I for one am just giddy something has started happening. At this stage in the game - I'm not going to rake anyone over the coals for using other companies for different things. If we can all work together to keep each other going - we will all get through it, and we can go back to our friendly roasting of each other on a daily basis.
mijbil wrote: ↑Fri Aug 07, 2020 12:57 pm
That's a win-win-win for everyone involved!
Glad to hear things are starting up, hope it won't lead to a knee jerk reaction of closing everything down again when infection numbers start to rise.
It's not exactly a win for the Sunwing pilots since we are still sitting on our tails. Technically we are employed by WG, under the CEWS program and are all listed as "OFL" or offline - except for management. CEWS is basically a slightly scaled down year 1 F/O wage with no benefits but is company wide for the pilots. It's better than CERB but not as good as being back to work. Bringing even a few senior pilots back to go through sims, get requalified etc would start the ball rolling. I have no idea (other than money) as to why they (WG management) have not recalled even a few people. The current CBA doesn't have any provision (scope clause) for this situation. Who would have predicted an all pilot layoff scenario?
Assuming there is no radcal Aussie style shutdown due to a second wave, and assuming that Justin removes the 14 day quarantine then things may just come roaring back. Good luck ploughing everyone through sim in October if that happens.
The fact that travel is re-starting is a good thing I agree. Pity it's not the WG pilots doing the flying.
Really? The amount it would cost to re-train even a few and pull a couple of aircraft out of storage would be huge compared to what gains we would get out of it. I doubt that the number of people on those flights even filled an A320. You probably had WG,AC,TS, selloff vacations customers in there. I highly doubt that at this stage any one company has enough people to do this...so its more of a i'll scratch your back - you scratch mine kind of deal. What happens to our west coast passengers? Maybe we fly 1 plane once a week between YVR and YYZ - right now we probably couldn't fill that either. So with AC and WJ flying right now - it makes perfect sense to use one carrier to move everyone's passengers until it picks up to the point you could fill a couple of planes with people.
At least it's money coming in that can keep us afloat a little while longer, and if these people have little to no problems - it will just encourage more people to go.
We do need to get rid of the 14 day quarantine after coming home. If we can get the safe corridors set up, or when the 14 day restriction is lifted, or if more people say "screw it" and just start travelling - I'm sure business will take off and we will get back to flying, but until then - it's foolish to try.
I still don't know why your not getting basic benefits though
I run an airbnb. I am starting to see some travel return.This month is way better than last month. It will be interesting to see what the shoulder season brings (ie what will travel be like in September once school returns).
I also employ a cohost. He's American, young and still single. He decided to take a Mexican vacation this week. I think this is more due to quarantine fatigue than anything else. Unemployment in Canada peaked at 13.7% but if you flip that on its head, 86% of people still have jobs. I'm still hesitant to travel but obviously not everyone is.
boeingboy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:23 pm
Really? The amount it would cost to re-train even a few and pull a couple of aircraft out of storage would be huge compared to what gains we would get out of it. I doubt that the number of people on those flights even filled an A320.
I have heard that AC did a Sunwing vacations trip to Montego Bay last week and it was full. These flights could be done by Sunwing crews who are still current.
I was really happy to see AT flying again, and am delighted that Sunwing is seeing signs of life as well. This is a human problem, competitive sentiment takes a backseat in my book to getting the whole world back on its feet in a controlled manner.
There won’t be big increases until the 14 day quarantine is lifted. Right now for a 1 week vacation south you need 3 weeks off. (if you still have a job that is)
Arnie Pye wrote: ↑Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:55 pm
I run an airbnb. I am starting to see some travel return.This month is way better than last month. It will be interesting to see what the shoulder season brings (ie what will travel be like in September once school returns).
I also employ a cohost. He's American, young and still single. He decided to take a Mexican vacation this week. I think this is more due to quarantine fatigue than anything else. Unemployment in Canada peaked at 13.7% but if you flip that on its head, 86% of people still have jobs. I'm still hesitant to travel but obviously not everyone is.
You can't flip the 14%. If you're not working for 3 weeks roughly they consider you the same as retired.
DHC-1 Jockey wrote: ↑Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:44 am
Looks great, except these were Sunwing vacations operated on Air Canada aircraft, not Sunwing aircraft.
The Sunwing Tour Group and Sunwing Vacations are still active, but it looks like they're using other carrier's to get their passengers down south while the airline remains grounded.
Glad to hear things are starting up, hope it won't lead to a knee jerk reaction of closing everything down again when infection numbers start to rise.
I don’t know if I’d consider it a win for the sunwing pilots. With the decimation of the travel/hospitality industry the Sunwing group has/is obviously going to be looking at major cost reductions, while Air Canada is going to be very open to any negotiations that could lead to additional business. If this current agreement they have works out, it would not be surprising to see the Sunwing group dump the Airline part of their business in order to protect their main interests.
DHC-1 Jockey wrote: ↑Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:44 am
Looks great, except these were Sunwing vacations operated on Air Canada aircraft, not Sunwing aircraft.
The Sunwing Tour Group and Sunwing Vacations are still active, but it looks like they're using other carrier's to get their passengers down south while the airline remains grounded.
Glad to hear things are starting up, hope it won't lead to a knee jerk reaction of closing everything down again when infection numbers start to rise.
I don’t know if I’d consider it a win for the sunwing pilots. With the decimation of the travel/hospitality industry the Sunwing group has/is obviously going to be looking at major cost reductions, while Air Canada is going to be very open to any negotiations that could lead to additional business. If this current agreement they have works out, it would not be surprising to see the Sunwing group dump the Airline part of their business in order to protect their main interests.
I don't think they will drop the airline portion of it. If they exclusively used AC, that would drive vacation packages cost up making it harder to sell packages at a competitive cost. If they chartered a hand full wet lease operators, that would cause reliability issues. The wet lease Eastern Airlines operation due to the MAX grounding last summer proved that. Relying on another airline to staff, provide aircraft, and maintenance them is a logistical pain in the butt. That's why SWG group created the airline in the first place. Sunwing as a strong customer base out of its Canadian gateways. Its not a company that sells packages from random gateways where they have to buy a dozen or so seats on others carries that serves that city. The only time Sunwing does this is if they are experimenting with a new market and don't know if they can dedicate an entire aircraft to it because of load uncertainties or if there is a little extra demand out of a city they fly to, but not so much that it requires another ones of its own planes.
Demand is low right now because of covid fears and restrictions. It doesn't makes sense to dedicate a few airplanes that are less than half full to a few destination down south. The pilots need to understand that.
I don’t know if I’d consider it a win for the sunwing pilots. With the decimation of the travel/hospitality industry the Sunwing group has/is obviously going to be looking at major cost reductions, while Air Canada is going to be very open to any negotiations that could lead to additional business. If this current agreement they have works out, it would not be surprising to see the Sunwing group dump the Airline part of their business in order to protect their main interests.
Will NEVER happen. Sunwing the Airline is only there to serve the Sunwing travel group. They only fly to destinations that we have hotels in. You would never be able to buy enough block space on other carriers to effectively move the people to where they need to go.
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Last edited by boeingboy on Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I don’t know if I’d consider it a win for the sunwing pilots. With the decimation of the travel/hospitality industry the Sunwing group has/is obviously going to be looking at major cost reductions, while Air Canada is going to be very open to any negotiations that could lead to additional business. If this current agreement they have works out, it would not be surprising to see the Sunwing group dump the Airline part of their business in order to protect their main interests.
Will NEVER happen. Sunwing the Airline is only there to serve the Sunwing travel group. They only fly to destinations that we have hotels in. You would never be able to buy enough block space on other carriers to effectively move the people to where they need to go.
I don’t know if I’d consider it a win for the sunwing pilots. With the decimation of the travel/hospitality industry the Sunwing group has/is obviously going to be looking at major cost reductions, while Air Canada is going to be very open to any negotiations that could lead to additional business. If this current agreement they have works out, it would not be surprising to see the Sunwing group dump the Airline part of their business in order to protect their main interests.
Will NEVER happen. Sunwing the Airline is only there to serve the Sunwing travel group. They only fly to destinations that we have hotels in. You would never be able to buy enough block space on other carriers to effectively move the people to where they need to go.
6 months ago that was true. Now there is more than enough capacity to cover all of sunwings lift if they wanted to charter it out.
Not much to see here. Sunwing is selling packages until there’s enough demand to fire up their own planes. This was the plan from the beginning. I can guarantee the full AC flights weren’t full of WG pax. And thank you to AC for flying peeps down to our hotels. Get some revenue going.
WG is still taking deliveries of Max’s. 2 in August. The airline isn’t going anywhere. I’m happy we’re not flying empty planes around burning cash.
And no Thunder Bay mustang 5.0 LX we’re not going to be flairs saving grace. Your welcome for the farm workers we gave up in the spring. Won’t be happening again in the fall.
whipline wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 5:32 pm
Not much to see here. Sunwing is selling packages until there’s enough demand to fire up their own planes. This was the plan from the beginning. I can guarantee the full AC flights weren’t full of WG pax. And thank you to AC for flying peeps down to our hotels. Get some revenue going.
WG is still taking deliveries of Max’s. 2 in August. The airline isn’t going anywhere. I’m happy we’re not flying empty planes around burning cash.
And no Thunder Bay mustang 5.0 LX we’re not going to be flairs saving grace. Your welcome for the farm workers we gave up in the spring. Won’t be happening again in the fall.
I have many close friends at SWG I don't want the airline to go anywhere. We don't have the aircraft availability to do any charter work right now, though it was good to get a few charters in the spring, it was never a saving grace. Our focus is domestic sched service, not charter or vacation work. That's a crowded space and not something we're pursuing. Hope you guys are back up in the air shortly.
WG is still taking deliveries of Max’s. 2 in August.
I don't know what your talking about. We haven't taken delivery of any Max aircraft....nobody has.
The last one we got was AXD, and that was delivered the day before the grounding. XE and XF are still at Boeing waiting for delivery after they are re-certified.
whipline wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 5:32 pm
Not much to see here. Sunwing is selling packages until there’s enough demand to fire up their own planes. This was the plan from the beginning. I can guarantee the full AC flights weren’t full of WG pax. And thank you to AC for flying peeps down to our hotels. Get some revenue going.
WG is still taking deliveries of Max’s. 2 in August. The airline isn’t going anywhere. I’m happy we’re not flying empty planes around burning cash.
And no Thunder Bay mustang 5.0 LX we’re not going to be flairs saving grace. Your welcome for the farm workers we gave up in the spring. Won’t be happening again in the fall.
I have many close friends at SWG I don't want the airline to go anywhere. We don't have the aircraft availability to do any charter work right now, though it was good to get a few charters in the spring, it was never a saving grace. Our focus is domestic sched service, not charter or vacation work. That's a crowded space and not something we're pursuing. Hope you guys are back up in the air shortly.
How is flair doing right now? I know from our end Swoop is full, WJ mainline isn't, can't speak about encore. Its going to be a loooong road to recovery. This is the first time in my career we're all in the same glass house, the same very real possibility of CCAA or worse - 911 was nothing compared to this.
I'm preparing for a non aviation plan B, but hope it doesn't come to that.
Good luck to all.
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