RCAF reserve as a second job

[TT1900]

While Air Canada may not have wanted you, there are several smaller operators who had you had the qualifications might have looked at you. Just like the CF attitude, not a lot of operators want x military guys. The Canadian military and flying are severely disconnected. Maybe one day we can all just get along as pilots not civilian or military pilot....(cf pilots are like cops, they have been told they are special) There are lots of jobs that the military takes real world qualifications, like a Dr, preacher, lawyer etc... I know x rcaf guys who fly part time for the CF and full time at AC. I did my time in the CF, not as a pilot... I am glad I never flew for them... with mottos like “if it’s stupid but it works, it’s not stupid”. Most also barely touch the controls, they are lucky if they fly 300h a year. This is also why they are told they are special, they are very inexperienced as they never have their but in the seat. The attitude that Oozes from most of these guys should be more then enough to keep you away. Your experience would be a threat to these guys and they would treat you that way too. If they hired civilian pilots they would have to change too much and they could never handle that.

Lol. So, how long ago did you wash out?

Please define “at the controls”? Confirm that you believe experience is solely a function of seat time? Never heard that “motto”.

I thought all pilots were told they were special. You must be doing it wrong.

I will agree that the odd guy has an attitude problem, but that’s certainly not unique to the military. I think most are cognizant and respectful of other skill-sets. After all, the RCAF does contract several flying courses to civilian companies - helicopter mountain flying for example.

At the end of the day I don’t really care what you fly or how you fly it. It’s just a job and there’s way more to life.

[TT1900]

I can clearly see that our field of aviation can easily descend into childishness. There always seem to be people who cannot respect people for who they are, but what they fly, or who they fly for. Some of us just want to fly; nothing more really. This original poster thought the same thing.

Too true. Contrary to what was posted above, most if not all of my former co-workers would have been happy to welcome a part-timer with civilian background into the mix.

[Kejidog]

You may as well give up on the cadet program. This summer’s training is cancelled. No gliding in the fall. And next year’s programs will more than likely be chopped too. My son got his glider wings las summer and had the ppl scholarship awarded to him only to have everything end. And anything we’ve heard is nothing is going to be done for them. Funny 17 year olds can work at tims or wally world but it’s too unsafe to get together for 8weeks and fly. Another shit show courtesy of fear and bureaucracy.

I wonder what they are going to do With the allocated money? Some kids were. Counting on this training to Jump start a university degree.

[Tanker299]

In order to wash out one must first apply. Being a pilot in the CF is secondary to to being an officer. I have a CD, jump wings and do not wish to be a pointy head but thanks. Time at the controls means just that, actual logable time. If you have 20 years and 2000 hours your about as skilled as a PPL pilot. Most guys I know rarely have over 5000 hours. 20-30 years and 5000h..... that is not a lot of flight experience. But it's the place that owns the planes and the type of planes that matters, actual experience that's not required. The civil training is function of cost and because they can't retain people. The experience well is not very deep. You should go to the enlisted folk and ask them. If your a pointy head I can see how you have been excluded from that conversation.

[AuxBatOn]

In order to wash out one must first apply. Being a pilot in the CF is secondary to to being an officer. I have a CD, jump wings and do not wish to be a pointy head but thanks. Time at the controls means just that, actual logable time. If you have 20 years and 2000 hours your about as skilled as a PPL pilot. Most guys I know rarely have over 5000 hours. 20-30 years and 5000h..... that is not a lot of flight experience. But it's the place that owns the planes and the type of planes that matters, actual experience that's not required. The civil training is function of cost and because they can't retain people. The experience well is not very deep. You should go to the enlisted folk and ask them. If your a pointy head I can see how you have been excluded from that conversation.

It would be entertaining seeing a PPL lead a multi-national mission of 30+ aircraft overseas employing tons of different weapons on targets with high collateral damage hazard safely.

It would be entertaining seeing a PPL lead a formation of Chinooks and Griffon approach a hot LZ in high density altitude while being shot at with a heavy load.

I’ll take quality over quantity anytime.

[TT1900]

In order to wash out one must first apply. Being a pilot in the CF is secondary to to being an officer. I have a CD, jump wings and do not wish to be a pointy head but thanks. Time at the controls means just that, actual logable time. If you have 20 years and 2000 hours your about as skilled as a PPL pilot. Most guys I know rarely have over 5000 hours. 20-30 years and 5000h..... that is not a lot of flight experience. But it's the place that owns the planes and the type of planes that matters, actual experience that's not required. The civil training is function of cost and because they can't retain people. The experience well is not very deep. You should go to the enlisted folk and ask them. If your a pointy head I can see how you have been excluded from that conversation.

You certainly offer one definition of experience and time at the controls.

I’d suggest “experience” is much more than just an hours total. I also don’t view time at the controls and logable time as the same.

It’s kind of like jump wings and a CD. You could have been an army cadet who did two weeks in Trenton followed by 12 years CIC. Or, you could have been with CSOR throughout the past decade. Nothing wrong with the former, but a vastly different experience despite the same quals on paper.

[SAR_YQQ]

You should go to the enlisted folk and ask them. If your a pointy head I can see how you have been excluded from that conversation.

I don’t see how a conversation with a non-flyer is pertinent to how I do my job. I’ll grab the next crunchie I see at Timmies and ask him his thoughts about my mad skillz. No doubt he/she will give the normal deer in the headlights look, mumble a few words and say nothing else. All the enlisted folk that I fly with currently have an excellent relationship with me both in and out of the plane - we call each other out and respect each other’s aviator skill set.

Nobody cares about flying hours - except those who don’t have the bare minimum for an ATPL. The Korean Airlines crew that smashed into the seawall at KSFO had over 10k hours for each seat.

[Zaibatsu]

It would be entertaining seeing a PPL lead a multi-national mission of 30+ aircraft overseas employing tons of different weapons on targets with high collateral damage hazard safely.

It would be entertaining seeing a PPL lead a formation of Chinooks and Griffon approach a hot LZ in high density altitude while being shot at with a heavy load.

I’ll take quality over quantity anytime.

There are 2000 hour PPLs out there who are capable of things you never will be. One with decades of experience but low hours? You’d be surprised. A PPL-H with R-22 time would think he’d have died and gone to heaven with such ridiculously overpowered machines like the Chinook and Griffin.

The biggest risk of any of those activities are the pilots themselves. Come on, the RCAF hasn’t faced an equivalent adversary since WWII. When was the last time an RCAF plane was even hit by enemy fire? More pilots get the clap than are shot at.

And is there any sort of QC for military activities? I lived near Cold Lake for years and knew lots of people on base and the fuckups that were spoke of that would result in immediate firing in the civilian world were almost unbelievable. Who cares if the bombs miss. The USAF has made friendly fire a national pastime. We simply don’t drop enough bombs for it to matter.

You can’t train experience. You can’t simulate experience. And without experience you are rigidly clinging to SOPs until the ink runs dry and then you are panicking and overreacting. Your 20 year 2000 hour PPL will be like that and so will your 20 year 2000 hour military pilot. I was in Cold Lake in 2008 when that Hawk trainer crashed in MJ and got the inside scoop. Couldn’t do a real forced approach right over the airport when the instructor was supposed to be training the student for a forced approach. The accident investigation reads like I describe. Clinging to SOPs and then rushing out where angels fear to tread throwing all the rules out the window as he kept panicking and changing his mind rather than committing to an action and injuring his unprepared student in an low altitude ejection when he realized he screwed up.

You need quantity to have quality.

[iflyforpie]

BS.

I flew 200 hours a year for years. The experience I gained has proven invaluable to my career.

I lost my engine on takeoff at 500 hours total time and made it back to the airport. It was because of the superior training by ex-military pilots that allowed me to do so.

There’s far more to experience than hours and not all hours are equal.

Like SAR-YQQ says, after you have your licenses, who cares? 10,000 hours on autopilot, what are you going to learn from that?

You’re also pretty disrespectful to our men and women in uniform. Nobody knows what they will face in combat or where they will go. That’s why our military needs the best.

No, a PPL couldn’t do a military job. You want to hear the equivalent? Go watch a CASARA exercise or a fly in. It’s a dog’s breakfast. I make it a point to avoid airports and airspace with those activities going on. The worst are PPLs who think they are gods gift to flying but are worse than student pilots.

Everywhere I’ve been the military have been top notch. Not perfect but nobody is. Way better than almost any PPL could ever hope to be.

[AuxBatOn]

It would be entertaining seeing a PPL lead a multi-national mission of 30+ aircraft overseas employing tons of different weapons on targets with high collateral damage hazard safely.

It would be entertaining seeing a PPL lead a formation of Chinooks and Griffon approach a hot LZ in high density altitude while being shot at with a heavy load.

I’ll take quality over quantity anytime.

There are 2000 hour PPLs out there who are capable of things you never will be. One with decades of experience but low hours? You’d be surprised. A PPL-H with R-22 time would think he’d have died and gone to heaven with such ridiculously overpowered machines like the Chinook and Griffin.

The biggest risk of any of those activities are the pilots themselves. Come on, the RCAF hasn’t faced an equivalent adversary since WWII. When was the last time an RCAF plane was even hit by enemy fire? More pilots get the clap than are shot at.

And is there any sort of QC for military activities? I lived near Cold Lake for years and knew lots of people on base and the fuckups that were spoke of that would result in immediate firing in the civilian world were almost unbelievable. Who cares if the bombs miss. The USAF has made friendly fire a national pastime. We simply don’t drop enough bombs for it to matter.

You can’t train experience. You can’t simulate experience. And without experience you are rigidly clinging to SOPs until the ink runs dry and then you are panicking and overreacting. Your 20 year 2000 hour PPL will be like that and so will your 20 year 2000 hour military pilot. I was in Cold Lake in 2008 when that Hawk trainer crashed in MJ and got the inside scoop. Couldn’t do a real forced approach right over the airport when the instructor was supposed to be training the student for a forced approach. The accident investigation reads like I describe. Clinging to SOPs and then rushing out where angels fear to tread throwing all the rules out the window as he kept panicking and changing his mind rather than committing to an action and injuring his unprepared student in an low altitude ejection when he realized he screwed up.

You need quantity to have quality.

We lost a Chinook to enemy fire in Afghanistan. Herc guys get routinely shot at and I was shot at more than my fair share.

A weapon missing its target is not necessarily the pilot’s @#$! up. There are weapons failures, software malfunctions, etc.

The QC is through thorough debriefs from IPs (a typical 1.5 hr sortie will yield a 2-hour debrief, going into the minutia of every aspects of the flight), multiple standards rides from standards pilots (there are at least 3 per year), our flight safety system, etc.

I would be curious to hear what the fuckups that would get you fired at a civilian company and from who you heard them.

[TT1900]

It would be entertaining seeing a PPL lead a multi-national mission of 30+ aircraft overseas employing tons of different weapons on targets with high collateral damage hazard safely.

It would be entertaining seeing a PPL lead a formation of Chinooks and Griffon approach a hot LZ in high density altitude while being shot at with a heavy load.

I’ll take quality over quantity anytime.

There are 2000 hour PPLs out there who are capable of things you never will be. One with decades of experience but low hours? You’d be surprised. A PPL-H with R-22 time would think he’d have died and gone to heaven with such ridiculously overpowered machines like the Chinook and Griffin.

The biggest risk of any of those activities are the pilots themselves. Come on, the RCAF hasn’t faced an equivalent adversary since WWII. When was the last time an RCAF plane was even hit by enemy fire? More pilots get the clap than are shot at.

And is there any sort of QC for military activities? I lived near Cold Lake for years and knew lots of people on base and the fuckups that were spoke of that would result in immediate firing in the civilian world were almost unbelievable. Who cares if the bombs miss. The USAF has made friendly fire a national pastime. We simply don’t drop enough bombs for it to matter.

You can’t train experience. You can’t simulate experience. And without experience you are rigidly clinging to SOPs until the ink runs dry and then you are panicking and overreacting. Your 20 year 2000 hour PPL will be like that and so will your 20 year 2000 hour military pilot. I was in Cold Lake in 2008 when that Hawk trainer crashed in MJ and got the inside scoop. Couldn’t do a real forced approach right over the airport when the instructor was supposed to be training the student for a forced approach. The accident investigation reads like I describe. Clinging to SOPs and then rushing out where angels fear to tread throwing all the rules out the window as he kept panicking and changing his mind rather than committing to an action and injuring his unprepared student in an low altitude ejection when he realized he screwed up.

You need quantity to have quality.

Korea wasn’t peer adversary? You sure? May want to read a book or two.

You should ask some Tac-hel guys about Afghanistan, Iraq, and Mali. Turns out there are lots of people living in those places with guns that don’t like helicopters. I’m sure they’re nice people though, so do the civilized thing and just file noise complaints. While you’re at it, compliment the Griffon pilots on their hideously overpowered machines. I’m sure they’ll agree.

So being near a military base gave you the “insider scoop” (Hint: there isn’t one. Report is public) to a crash at another base? Sounds legit. Yes, mistakes were made, but last I checked tens of thousands of hours doesn’t stop such things; SFO sea-wall, Air France into the drink, Air Canada in Halifax, and those were all flyable machines too, unlike that Hawk.

My sisters, brother in law’s, third-cousin’s, uncle’s, house-keeper told me the AC-Transat deal will go through, btw.

While 99% of your post was ignorant BS, I do agree that experience can not be trained nor simulated. Pilots are only as good as the mental toolbox they possess whether they have 200hrs, 2000hrs, or 20000hrs. Quality of hours is equally, if not more, important than quantity in developing those skills.

[DanJ]

Even CIC seems to be a problem to get in to. My brother in law started volunteering with a local air cadet sqn a couple years ago, ahead of his daughter's 12 birthday, when she planned to join. He was an air cadet growing up and joined the CIC (then called the CIL), and was in for 8 years. (As an aside, he wanted to join the regular Air Force, but his eyes weren't up to snuff, but one of his buddies did, and just retired last year after commanding the Snowbirds a few years ago). He did 8 years before he decided on a career to settle down in and get married and whatever. So he left the CIC.

When he started volunteering, I casually mentioned if he could join again, to which he didn't know. Then a couple months later, he posts a picture at the Remembrance Day parade and commented "With the sqn at Remembrance Day, hopefully back in uniform for next year's parade". That was 2018, and even though he has gone through the process, done the testing, and they dug up his old records and confirming his service time, he still hasn't got back in. His squadron has a position for him as well. Now with COVID, everything seems to have stopped. Like any other youth program, getting adults involved is always a tough time anymore, I'm surprised cadets is so slow with this.

[mijbil]

A grand total of 9 pilots have rejoined the RCAF. 5 reservists and 4 as reg force. Either it's the admin/recruiting that's a problem (that's my guess) and more are in the pipeline or no-one wants a 100K+ job in these times or it's something else. For those considering it, perhaps give someone who has just left a call and see what it is that causes people to leave before age 60. It might be 'something else' after all. It is the case for me since I know I won't we doing a thing for at least a year. Having a DB pension has certainly influenced my decision but I know of others who left (pre pandemic) with no pension.
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/p ... r-BB18Lt6b

[Ash Ketchum]

Does anyone know if the RCAF is currently hiring new regular force pilots? I am seriously considering leaving commercial aviation and would love the stability of a RCAF job. I have applied a few months ago but have heard nothing yet.

[GoHomeLeg]

A grand total of 9 pilots have rejoined the RCAF. 5 reservists and 4 as reg force. Either it's the admin/recruiting that's a problem (that's my guess) and more are in the pipeline or no-one wants a 100K+ job in these times or it's something else. For those considering it, perhaps give someone who has just left a call and see what it is that causes people to leave before age 60. It might be 'something else' after all. It is the case for me since I know I won't we doing a thing for at least a year. Having a DB pension has certainly influenced my decision but I know of others who left (pre pandemic) with no pension.
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/p ... r-BB18Lt6b

Unlike many airbases in the US where you can live in or close to a decent size city, Canadian airbases are all out in the middle of nowhere.

https://youtu.be/XvHOLKy5iVI

[ZoomZoom147]

Does anyone know if the RCAF is currently hiring new regular force pilots? I am seriously considering leaving commercial aviation and would love the stability of a RCAF job. I have applied a few months ago but have heard nothing yet.

Their focus is on re-enrolling pilots. A first time application could take upwards of a year, since the trade is technically not in demand. They're not hurting so much for pilots, but rather experienced military aviators.

Just remember, you'll be a RCAF officer first, pilot second.

[AuxBatOn]

A grand total of 9 pilots have rejoined the RCAF. 5 reservists and 4 as reg force. Either it's the admin/recruiting that's a problem (that's my guess) and more are in the pipeline or no-one wants a 100K+ job in these times or it's something else. For those considering it, perhaps give someone who has just left a call and see what it is that causes people to leave before age 60. It might be 'something else' after all. It is the case for me since I know I won't we doing a thing for at least a year. Having a DB pension has certainly influenced my decision but I know of others who left (pre pandemic) with no pension.
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/p ... r-BB18Lt6b

Unlike many airbases in the US where you can live in or close to a decent size city, Canadian airbases are all out in the middle of nowhere.

https://youtu.be/XvHOLKy5iVI

Shearwater, Bagotville, Ottawa, Trenton, Winnipeg, Moose Jaw, Victoria and Comox are all in or nearby decent sized cities (ie: within 1 hour). The only ones that are really remote are Goose Bay, Greenwood, Cold Lake and Yellowknife.

[ZoomZoom147]

A grand total of 9 pilots have rejoined the RCAF. 5 reservists and 4 as reg force. Either it's the admin/recruiting that's a problem (that's my guess) and more are in the pipeline or no-one wants a 100K+ job in these times or it's something else. For those considering it, perhaps give someone who has just left a call and see what it is that causes people to leave before age 60. It might be 'something else' after all. It is the case for me since I know I won't we doing a thing for at least a year. Having a DB pension has certainly influenced my decision but I know of others who left (pre pandemic) with no pension.
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/p ... r-BB18Lt6b

It's a 4-6 month process to re-enrol. My guess is that there'll be more applications as the impacts of COVID continue. I'm sure many more have expressed interest, and are just waiting until the time is right to make such a decision.

The RCAF recognizes that it has a retention problem and has implemented various initiatives under Op Experience and Op Talent.

https://rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/servic ... itiative16

Definitely a step in the right direction.

[AuxBatOn]

A grand total of 9 pilots have rejoined the RCAF. 5 reservists and 4 as reg force. Either it's the admin/recruiting that's a problem (that's my guess) and more are in the pipeline or no-one wants a 100K+ job in these times or it's something else. For those considering it, perhaps give someone who has just left a call and see what it is that causes people to leave before age 60. It might be 'something else' after all. It is the case for me since I know I won't we doing a thing for at least a year. Having a DB pension has certainly influenced my decision but I know of others who left (pre pandemic) with no pension.
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/p ... r-BB18Lt6b

It's a 4-6 month process to re-enrol. My guess is that there'll be more applications as the impacts of COVID continue. I'm sure many more have expressed interest, and are just waiting until the time is right to make such a decision.

The RCAF recognizes that it has a retention problem and has implemented various initiatives under Op Experience and Op Talent.

https://rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/servic ... itiative16

Definitely a step in the right direction.

A friend re-enrolled within 1 month. As for the initiatives described at the link, few have actually been implemented, despite being a long time in the making...

[ZoomZoom147]

A grand total of 9 pilots have rejoined the RCAF. 5 reservists and 4 as reg force. Either it's the admin/recruiting that's a problem (that's my guess) and more are in the pipeline or no-one wants a 100K+ job in these times or it's something else. For those considering it, perhaps give someone who has just left a call and see what it is that causes people to leave before age 60. It might be 'something else' after all. It is the case for me since I know I won't we doing a thing for at least a year. Having a DB pension has certainly influenced my decision but I know of others who left (pre pandemic) with no pension.
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/p ... r-BB18Lt6b

It's a 4-6 month process to re-enrol. My guess is that there'll be more applications as the impacts of COVID continue. I'm sure many more have expressed interest, and are just waiting until the time is right to make such a decision.

The RCAF recognizes that it has a retention problem and has implemented various initiatives under Op Experience and Op Talent.

https://rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/servic ... itiative16

Definitely a step in the right direction.

A friend re-enrolled within 1 month. As for the initiatives described at the link, few have actually been implemented, despite being a long time in the making...

The 1 month re-enrolment was an anomaly for a high visibility position. Most will be 4-6 months, which is fairly quick in my opinion.

Some short-term initiatives have been implemented, but most will take 5-7 years to be implemented, as with any government organization. I think their intent is genuine though.

[pilotpark]

You may as well give up on the cadet program. This summer’s training is cancelled. No gliding in the fall. And next year’s programs will more than likely be chopped too. My son got his glider wings las summer and had the ppl scholarship awarded to him only to have everything end. And anything we’ve heard is nothing is going to be done for them. Funny 17 year olds can work at tims or wally world but it’s too unsafe to get together for 8weeks and fly. Another shit show courtesy of fear and bureaucracy.

I wonder what they are going to do With the allocated money? Some kids were. Counting on this training to Jump start a university degree.

They did fairly well during the summer with the cancellations of summer training, with virtual online training. This years training will continue but at 50% of the normal years training, with possible in-house training nights beginning as of Oct 1.It's unfortunate that your son didn't end up with his power/glider, but it is a reminder that this industry is volatile and cost heavy. It's not really "another' shit show courtesy of fear and bureaucracy, its an unprecedented pandemic that nobody was prepared to deal with. Everyone is dealing with it the same way in every sector and industry, and its going to be a shit show till a vaccine comes out.

[iflyforpie]

The only thing unprecedented about this pandemic is the way the media is covering it and how the politicians are reacting to it. It’s a negative feedback loop that’s only moderated by how many people are ignoring it for how ridiculous it is, and the realization that you can’t actually shut everything down (eg: grocery stores).

This is a flu which kills less than 0.5% of those infected and of those 0.5%.. 94% have comorbidities (which either means we are double dipping causes of death.. or things like bacterial pneumonia, COPD, and renal failure will show near miraculous reductions in mortality). Each seasonal flu did the same thing every year for years but nobody cared.

Both my kids have had no physical Cadet activities for 6 months now. My son in particular was supposed to be a staff cadet this summer. It’s time to stop pretending that this is a disease worth the very damaging cure.. all while the deaths that haven’t materialized (which means the curve has flattened) have moved to cases that are still materializing but doing hardly anything outside of an old folks home or extended care unit.

[tsgarp]

In order to wash out one must first apply. Being a pilot in the CF is secondary to to being an officer. I have a CD, jump wings and do not wish to be a pointy head but thanks. Time at the controls means just that, actual logable time. If you have 20 years and 2000 hours your about as skilled as a PPL pilot. Most guys I know rarely have over 5000 hours. 20-30 years and 5000h..... that is not a lot of flight experience. But it's the place that owns the planes and the type of planes that matters, actual experience that's not required. The civil training is function of cost and because they can't retain people. The experience well is not very deep. You should go to the enlisted folk and ask them. If your a pointy head I can see how you have been excluded from that conversation.

Not all logable time is created equal.

With regard to the OP. Getting a flying position in the reserves without first being in the Reg F is very rare, but not unheard of. If you have time on type, and someone in the Sqn pulling for you, it can be done. Without those two items, I’m sorry but you’re out of luck.