Question about Transport Canada recordkeeping

[mckenziepiping]

Does anyone know whether Transport Canada keeps track of FTU's when granting licenses to new pilots? For example, when someone obtains a CPL or ATPL, is this intrinsically linked to the FTU the pilot attended?

The reason I ask if because I'm sending a Freedom of Information request to Transport Canada and I just wanted to make sure the record I'm asking for actually exists. The FOI request is for the number of pilots who obtained a CPL and/or ATPL in 2016 from a particular FTU.

[digits_]

Does anyone know whether Transport Canada keeps track of FTU's when granting licenses to new pilots? For example, when someone obtains a CPL or ATPL, is this intrinsically linked to the FTU the pilot attended?

The reason I ask if because I'm sending a Freedom of Information request to Transport Canada and I just wanted to make sure the record I'm asking for actually exists. The FOI request is for the number of pilots who obtained a CPL and/or ATPL in 2016 from a particular FTU.

The eximantion form has a field for the FTU code (or AOC code or something similar). I don't know if they actively keep track of it though. Might just be something so they know who to contact if there are ever issues.

[LifeAt90Kts]

I had heard from an examiner that they track the FTU’s and examiners to make sure the pass / fail ratio is within norms. I don’t know that they can filter pilots who attended a specific FTU who went on to achieve an ATPL. Won’t know till you ask! I don’t know if any one is even in the TC offices right now, but if you can get a hold of someone they might be able to tell you if that information exists.

[photofly]

Does anyone know whether Transport Canada keeps track of FTU's when granting licenses to new pilots? For example, when someone obtains a CPL or ATPL, is this intrinsically linked to the FTU the pilot attended?

Yes for CPL flight tests, but not ATPL, which has no specific test and is not linked to any training unit.

The reason I ask if because I'm sending a Freedom of Information request to Transport Canada and I just wanted to make sure the record I'm asking for actually exists. The FOI request is for the number of pilots who obtained a CPL and/or ATPL in 2016 from a particular FTU.

I have already asked, and they will not tell you. They are not obliged to reveal information of a commercially sensitive nature, which this is, as in any other data linked to a specific FTU.

[photofly]

Double post

[A Regulator]

If you submit an ATIP request with the specific information they have to provide it. The request will be sent to the regionaloffice that provides oversight. The information is searched and reviewed some may be redacted. If you called and asked over the phone they wont provide it.

[photofly]

They absolutely don’t have to provide it, if it’s covered by any of a dozen exemptions. And this is.

It’s all laid out in the Access to Information Act. Section 20(1)(c) in this case.

[A Regulator]

It’s in the details but Transport Canada regional TCC’s have to search and release the ATIP to the ATIP office. They are not the ones who do the redacting. Many many years ago they did, but there is a ATIP release form that is completed and signed off regarding what is suggested to be released. The form and documents are then sent to the ATIP office and they review and redact information accordingly. Depending on what information is requested at times if the request contains specific company information like financial etc the company is called to advise them and depending on what it is could be redacted. I don’t have that information on hand but ATIP request was the one item that I did not like signing as it said ALL information has been found. There was no way I could be guaranteed that and even a genuine mistake can’t be tolerated by the ATIP office to the regional ADO who would need to explain that in many emails to the Regional Director General and the ATIP department head

[photofly]

It doesn't matter who does the redacting. I have made several ATI requests of Transport Canada, and each time, information that identified individual FTUs and their pass rates, or numbers of examinees, or anything else, was not released.

The OP will not get TC to tell him what he wants to know.

[A Regulator]

All i can tell you is that If TC has the documents they have to release them ( i worked there for over 30 years) and had to release a lot of ATIP requests that applied to my group, but remember you need to be specific in your request and that the flight tests most likely had and are being done by authorized persons. If you ask about pass/fail on a FTU, TC most likely will not have that info as we always reviewed the authorized persons records. (That stuff was done years ago and probably it is not being done anymore).

[photofly]

TC absolutely has all the pass/fail information on any test where the FTU field on the examiners score sheet is completed. Which is all flight tests authorized by an instructor working for an FTU.

But they will not give you data identifiable by FTU because it is commercial information.

I know this because I was given that data for every FTU in the country, following my A2I request, with all FTU-identifying information redacted.

[mckenziepiping]

Ok great, thanks for all the input.

Without naming anyone, essentially what I'm trying to do is validate some fishy graduation rates that were reported to the Ministry of Colleges & Universities. I attended a particular program and I recall that by the 3rd year, there were less than 40% of us remaining. Less than 20% actually finished the 4th year and graduated (which I know because I personally knew everyone in the program). However, the records held by the Ministry of Colleges & Universities indicate a 53% graduation rate for my year, which is totally impossible.

Again, without naming anyone or identifying any particular institutions on this forum (due to the sensitive nature of this matter) I'm trying to obtain records from Transport Canada showing the number of pilots who obtained a CPL from this particular FTU. For the purposes of comparison and identifying any contradictions between records held by TC and the Ministry, a list of names would be even better but I highly doubt they'll release that.

[455tt]

Why don't you contact the news media? They are very good at investigative reporting and digging out the facts. Try W5 or CBC Marketplace. See what they recommend. Phony graduation rates to get more students - wow. Sounds like a great story idea to me.

[mckenziepiping]

That's not a bad idea. I'll wait to see what my request to TC reveals before resorting to such measures.

[Heliian]

Did you send an email to the governing body about these shenanigans? They might throw that on the pile to look at but then is there any real legal issue here?

For example, that "53%" might include other programs or maybe 53% that were still enrolled by the end passed.

They wouldn't count dropouts in there nor should they.

[photofly]

A 47% failure rate in flight training isn't much to boast about, anyway. Instructors get put into special measures if their student failure rate is 30%.

[mckenziepiping]

Did you send an email to the governing body about these shenanigans? They might throw that on the pile to look at but then is there any real legal issue here?

For example, that "53%" might include other programs or maybe 53% that were still enrolled by the end passed.

They wouldn't count dropouts in there nor should they.

I can see why you'd say dropouts shouldn't be counted but in cases where the student may have withdrawn because they were moving into the upper years of the program without having received the corresponding quals and/or hours (in those cases where subsidized FTU's aren't able to honour their deliverables within the timeframe of the program) then dropouts would actually be a fairly powerful indicator.

[mckenziepiping]

Did you send an email to the governing body about these shenanigans? They might throw that on the pile to look at but then is there any real legal issue here?

For example, that "53%" might include other programs or maybe 53% that were still enrolled by the end passed.

They wouldn't count dropouts in there nor should they.

53% was specifically reported for a specific year of the Aviation program

[mckenziepiping]

A 47% failure rate in flight training isn't much to boast about, anyway. Instructors get put into special measures if their student failure rate is 30%.

True but these rates aren't linked to a particular instruction. They are linked to the entire FTU. A 53% graduation rate is much more appealing for prospective students than a 20% graduate rate.

[mckenziepiping]

Turns out the record doesn't exist. TC got back to me and said that while submissions for licensing (flight test reports) do indicate the name of the FTU, TC does not extract and compile this information. Therefore, it would not be possible to generate the type of statistic I was seeking.

[photofly]

That’s 100% bullshit.

Transport Canada routinely provides individual flight test performance statistics to every FTU at every Process Validation Inspection and requires underperforming FTUs to improve their test pass rates. It’s the only way TC monitors FTU teaching standards.

I even have a table of flight test statistics indexed by FTU (as a response to an A2I request) with the names and IDs of all the FTUs redacted so you can’t work out which statistics refer to which school. But the information exists.

Whoever told you they don’t have the data is mistaken.