Trudeau Throne Speech.. any comprehensive support for aviation?

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McKinley
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Trudeau Throne Speech.. any comprehensive support for aviation?

Post by McKinley »

Hey,

I didn’t watch the hour long speech...did the aviation sector receive any support in line with other developed countries? Or have we been relegated to fly solo so to speak... ?

I don’t want to get into the ticket refund debate...

Thanks in advance..

Be well...
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3down&loct
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Re: Trudeau Throne Speech.. any comprehensive support for aviation?

Post by 3down&loct »

Do not hold your breath for numb nuts to help out. F*^king clueless idiot.
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Inverted2
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Re: Trudeau Throne Speech.. any comprehensive support for aviation?

Post by Inverted2 »

He’s giving a casino company 200 million but nothing for airlines. :shock:

https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-s ... 663-4-.htm
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Zaibatsu
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Re: Trudeau Throne Speech.. any comprehensive support for aviation?

Post by Zaibatsu »

Flying sector? I doubt he knows it even exists.
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schnitzel2k3
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Re: Trudeau Throne Speech.. any comprehensive support for aviation?

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

Hmmm, has the airline industry fully reimbursed its passengers that had their flying cancelled? I know in Europe they are required to, at which point the various governments supoorted the airline industry.

Real world example of a person I ran into last week.

Pre-covid, booked flight for 6500 to Cancun with his family. This was a package offered on Westjet's website. Westjet issued a credit due to covid as they were unable to travel. This credit can only be used at a maximum amount of 312.00 PER TRIP with a 70.00 reservation fee on top of this. This is 6500.00 dollars of this small business owners money Westjet is holding captive.

I feel horrible for my fellow flight crew, but the management has shown no good faith other than wanting handouts to continue to operate the way they are. Do you really think they are going to throttle right back up once that billion dollar cheque is cut?

That's c-suite bonus money. And like all good Canadian handouts will vanish faster than a fart in the wind.
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twa22
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Re: Trudeau Throne Speech.. any comprehensive support for aviation?

Post by twa22 »

schnitzel2k3 wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:20 am Hmmm, has the airline industry fully reimbursed its passengers that had their flying cancelled? I know in Europe they are required to, at which point the various governments supoorted the airline industry.

Real world example of a person I ran into last week.

Pre-covid, booked flight for 6500 to Cancun with his family. This was a package offered on Westjet's website. Westjet issued a credit due to covid as they were unable to travel. This credit can only be used at a maximum amount of 312.00 PER TRIP with a 70.00 reservation fee on top of this. This is 6500.00 dollars of this small business owners money Westjet is holding captive.

I feel horrible for my fellow flight crew, but the management has shown no good faith other than wanting handouts to continue to operate the way they are. Do you really think they are going to throttle right back up once that billion dollar cheque is cut?

That's c-suite bonus money. And like all good Canadian handouts will vanish faster than a fart in the wind.
Yes, but... I don't know the situation regarding refunds in Europe, but most of the majors have gotten bailouts. So logically, that would allow a company more breathing room to give back full refunds. That said, some family from Europe was supposed to come visit this summer and they were supposed to fly with Lufthansa. As far as I know, they weren't given their money back. They were given up to end of the year to rebook their flights for travel within a specified window in the future, so I don't how much of that refunds happening in Europe is true.

I guess it's one of those give and take things, both parties have to help/compromise, but the utter lack of interest of even raising a finger to help the airline industry here is truly appalling... and CEWS for employees doesn't count because that was given to everyone, not just the airlines
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Mach1
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Re: Trudeau Throne Speech.. any comprehensive support for aviation?

Post by Mach1 »

Zaibatsu wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:43 am Flying sector? I doubt he knows it even exists.
He has a free (taxpayer funded) private airplane he's made more use of in his first year in office than the previous government did in 4 years... why would he care if the filthy masses have access to travel? Better if they don't.
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Last edited by Mach1 on Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm going to knock this up a notch with my spice weasle. Bam!
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Re: Trudeau Throne Speech.. any comprehensive support for aviation?

Post by '97 Tercel »

JT has an amazing ability to talk for awhile but really say nothing at all.

IMO, he's an airy-fairy rainbow unicorn sprinkling nothing but targeted vote-buying dollars.
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Re: Trudeau Throne Speech.. any comprehensive support for aviation?

Post by rigpiggy »

Inverted2 wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:27 pm He’s giving a casino company 200 million but nothing for airlines. :shock:

https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-s ... 663-4-.htm
Well it is in PQ
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Old fella
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Re: Trudeau Throne Speech.. any comprehensive support for aviation?

Post by Old fella »

schnitzel2k3 wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:20 am Hmmm, has the airline industry fully reimbursed its passengers that had their flying cancelled? I know in Europe they are required to, at which point the various governments supoorted the airline industry.

Real world example of a person I ran into last week.

Pre-covid, booked flight for 6500 to Cancun with his family. This was a package offered on Westjet's website. Westjet issued a credit due to covid as they were unable to travel. This credit can only be used at a maximum amount of 312.00 PER TRIP with a 70.00 reservation fee on top of this. This is 6500.00 dollars of this small business owners money Westjet is holding captive.

I feel horrible for my fellow flight crew, but the management has shown no good faith other than wanting handouts to continue to operate the way they are. Do you really think they are going to throttle right back up once that billion dollar cheque is cut?

That's c-suite bonus money. And like all good Canadian handouts will vanish faster than a fart in the wind.
I have been hearing and reading that many who unfortunately were in circumstances as you noted were successful in getting refunds through their credit card providers under the “ services not rendered “ clause. If one has a Premium Card success rate is even better as a family member(sister’s daughter)told me who works at CIBC. You have to supply required documentation and it varies with different CC providers, wait time for reverse charges could be a few weeks to couple of months. It’s on an individual basis and amount in question that sets the time frame. Again, success rates are better than many believe. If I was in that situation and succeeded in getting reverse charges, it would be a long time before I set foot on WJ.
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Re: Trudeau Throne Speech.. any comprehensive support for aviation?

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

Old fella wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:14 pm
schnitzel2k3 wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:20 am Hmmm, has the airline industry fully reimbursed its passengers that had their flying cancelled? I know in Europe they are required to, at which point the various governments supoorted the airline industry.

Real world example of a person I ran into last week.

Pre-covid, booked flight for 6500 to Cancun with his family. This was a package offered on Westjet's website. Westjet issued a credit due to covid as they were unable to travel. This credit can only be used at a maximum amount of 312.00 PER TRIP with a 70.00 reservation fee on top of this. This is 6500.00 dollars of this small business owners money Westjet is holding captive.

I feel horrible for my fellow flight crew, but the management has shown no good faith other than wanting handouts to continue to operate the way they are. Do you really think they are going to throttle right back up once that billion dollar cheque is cut?

That's c-suite bonus money. And like all good Canadian handouts will vanish faster than a fart in the wind.
I have been hearing and reading that many who unfortunately were in circumstances as you noted were successful in getting refunds through their credit card providers under the “ services not rendered “ clause. If one has a Premium Card success rate is even better as a family member(sister’s daughter)told me who works at CIBC. You have to supply required documentation and it varies with different CC providers, wait time for reverse charges could be a few weeks to couple of months. It’s on an individual basis and amount in question that sets the time frame. Again, success rates are better than many believe. If I was in that situation and succeeded in getting reverse charges, it would be a long time before I set foot on WJ.
Agreed, I'll check back in with him this week and let him know to push a little harder for a refund with his CC.

I think he is relying too much on WS to do the right thing.
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Re: Trudeau Throne Speech.. any comprehensive support for aviation?

Post by digits_ »

twa22 wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:59 pm and CEWS for employees doesn't count because that was given to everyone, not just the airlines

Say what now? If anything, CEWS is extremely good for aviation employers, as it allows them to retain highly trained workers at a subsidized rate.

If every company would, hypothetically, get a loan valued at 20% of their previous year's revenue, would you not be happy because it's not just the airlines who get it?
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Re: Trudeau Throne Speech.. any comprehensive support for aviation?

Post by Launchpad1 »

Say what now? If anything, CEWS is extremely good for aviation employers, as it allows them to retain highly trained workers at a subsidized rate.
Exactly! It is a subsidy for the airlines (just happens to not be unique to the airlines). It also helps Pilots very much as the amount is enough to survive off for awhile. Try getting another job in a time like this with Pilot on your resume.
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Re: Trudeau Throne Speech.. any comprehensive support for aviation?

Post by twa22 »

digits_ wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:37 pm
twa22 wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:59 pm and CEWS for employees doesn't count because that was given to everyone, not just the airlines

Say what now? If anything, CEWS is extremely good for aviation employers, as it allows them to retain highly trained workers at a subsidized rate.

If every company would, hypothetically, get a loan valued at 20% of their previous year's revenue, would you not be happy because it's not just the airlines who get it?
I didn't say it wasn't good, where did I write that? I said it doesn't count as an airline specific bailout. CEWS pays for aviation employers to keep employees on payroll, it doesn't pay for parked planes that are hemorrhaging money, or close to empty pax flights which are likely losing a ton of money, unless they have enough cargo in the belly to compensate...Unless i'm missing something and CEWS covers that, but then it wouldn't be called "Canadian Emergency Wage Subsidy" now would it?

For all those who are saying that airlines shouldn't get bailouts, what do you suggest? Let them burn, go bankrupt? Let half the pilot workforce be permanently unemployed? I don't get it, we're all pilots here, we should all be joining forces and petitioning the government for help, which some good folk are trying to do. Even if you're not an airline pilot, the airline sector has a tremendous effect on every sector in this business... airlines go, and the aviation sector declines, we're all screwed.... cargo is likely the only thing that's not affected in this scenario, but they seem to be doing just fine nowadays
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Re: Trudeau Throne Speech.. any comprehensive support for aviation?

Post by FL320 »

Launchpad1 wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:39 pm It also helps Pilots very much as the amount is enough to survive off for awhile.
Yeahhh...when you were making 5500$ per week (on which you were giving 2000$ back to the government) which in return gives you 847$...enough you say? It’s just unfair!
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Re: Trudeau Throne Speech.. any comprehensive support for aviation?

Post by altiplano »

Canada is the only G7 country not offering support to their Airlines.

Why is that? Are we somehow smarter than Germany or Japan or Britain or France? Letting our airlines fail is good policy?

Fact is we have a dolt in the Front Office of this country. Not only is there no support, we have among the most Draconian restrictions to travel even within our own borders.

Enough is enough.
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Re: Trudeau Throne Speech.. any comprehensive support for aviation?

Post by Air.Field »

wasn't there suppose to be some rally in Ottawa by those in the aviation industry on the 23rd? Haven't seen anything about it in the news. If there was, certainly shows the impact it had :roll:
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Re: Trudeau Throne Speech.. any comprehensive support for aviation?

Post by Inverted2 »

altiplano wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:18 am Canada is the only G7 country not offering support to their Airlines.

Why is that? Are we somehow smarter than Germany or Japan or Britain or France? Letting our airlines fail is good policy?

Fact is we have a dolt in the Front Office of this country. Not only is there no support, we have among the most Draconian restrictions to travel even within our own borders.

Enough is enough.
+1

Castreau wants to see airlines go under. It’s part of his green agenda. He doesn’t have to worry about airline travel so he doesn’t care.
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Re: Trudeau Throne Speech.. any comprehensive support for aviation?

Post by twa22 »

Air.Field wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:41 am wasn't there suppose to be some rally in Ottawa by those in the aviation industry on the 23rd? Haven't seen anything about it in the news. If there was, certainly shows the impact it had :roll:
As far as I know it was postponed so even more people can be gathered
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Re: Trudeau Throne Speech.. any comprehensive support for aviation?

Post by altiplano »

Inverted2 wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:46 am
altiplano wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:18 am Canada is the only G7 country not offering support to their Airlines.

Why is that? Are we somehow smarter than Germany or Japan or Britain or France? Letting our airlines fail is good policy?

Fact is we have a dolt in the Front Office of this country. Not only is there no support, we have among the most Draconian restrictions to travel even within our own borders.

Enough is enough.
+1

Castreau wants to see airlines go under. It’s part of his green agenda. He doesn’t have to worry about airline travel so he doesn’t care.
Right? He flies private anyway and has a trust fund to keep him comfortable his whole life... doesn't mean shit to him.
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