Nanchang CJ-6 down in Victoria BC

[Human Factor]

https://www.cheknews.ca/vintage-plane-c ... rt-708529/

201010-CHEK-Nanchung-Plane-Landing-YYJ-1024x576.jpg (132.47 KiB) Viewed 4181 times

[co-joe]

Is that the one from Nanaimo?

[J31]

https://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/saf-sec-sur/2/ ... hSimp.aspx

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/9887670

Private Nanchang CJ6A based in Victoria.

[co-joe]

Thanks J31, what a beautiful aeroplane. Looks like a good landing to me.

[2R]

Looks like a cheap Yak knock off

[Human Factor]

With Made-In-China landing gear, apparently.

[AirFrame]

Looks like a cheap Yak knock off

It may be a knock-off, but it was a lot more sucessful than the original Yak. At least, based on the numbers of them you see flying today.

The Yak was designed to land gear-up as well. I guess Russian and Chinese students are no different in forgetting to extend the gear from time to time... (not that that's what happened here... In this case it was a failure of the gear mechanism, not the pilot).

[North Shore]

Just to be clear, this wasn't a case of forgetting to lower the gear!

[PilotDAR]

Just to be clear, this wasn't a case of forgetting to lower the gear!

That's what I was thinking, having met this pilot, and appreciated his professionalism.

[Pratt X 3]

The pilot of a privately registered Nanchang CJ6A from Victoria, BC (CYYJ) to Victoria, BC (CYYJ) reported that they were unable to extend their landing gear. The Aircraft Rescue and Fire Fighting (ARFF) unit was put on standby. The aircraft landed on Runway 21 with the landing gear retracted and slid off the end of the runway. ARFF responded. An inbound de Havilland DHC-8-400 aircraft was extended on the approach in order to accommodate the landing.

CADORS: Report

[2R]

Landing gear up ,I would take a runway over dirt . If you catch an edge or something digs in hard into the dirt, or find a ditch you can cause more damage to the aircraft and the you may experience side loaded rotational g forces that will snap your neck .
If the gear does not come down on my aircraft ,it now belongs to the insurance company and I will do everything to get as low an energy landing as possible onto a hard surface where I can dissipate the energy straight ahead and minimize any injuries to me or my pax . Wings level , ball centered as long as possible Catching a wing tip can cause side loads that can kill .
Let the skid plates on the belly do their job . Metal is cheaper to fix than flesh and blood . You can replace skid plates cheaper than a bent spar .
As low an energy touchdown as the wind will allow will keeping control for a stable approach . The toughest gear problem landing would be any two down and one up . In that case I would get the gear up and find a long runway preferable one with crash fire rescue service ready to rescue me or the pax .
Do not hesitate to call for the CFR equipment, your future self will thank you

[airway]

Although the pilot did a great job getting the plane on the ground with minimal damage and no injuries, the fact that the aircraft slid off the end of the runway caught my eye on this one. I don't know what this pilot did, but this is what I would be thinking about if I was in this situation.

First off, I would hope there was some reason he chose to land on R/W 21 (5000'), rather than R/W 27/09 (7000'). I can think of a few off the top of my head: crosswind, runway condition/closure, obstacles on short final or end/side of the runway, R/W shortened by notam.

Second, I would hope that he was in the flare, at Vref (or equivalent), full flaps (if possible), at some point before the threshold. With the reduced drag from not having the gear down, I'm guessing this aircraft would float at least 2 times as far as normal, probably more. Maybe I would try a low and over in the landing configuration to see if I could get an idea how much longer the float would be.

I once witnessed a light twin do a gear up landing and talked to the pilot after about how it went and what he would have done differently. At about 200' the pilot shut down, feathered, and hit the starter button to get the props horizontal on both engines. There was lots of discussion whether or not this was a good Idea. No chance of a go-around, doing all this in the flare, aerodynamic changes on short final, etc. I suppose it would be a personal decision.

So, after he has done this, he flares at the threshold (I don't know how fast he was going), and proceeds to float halfway down the 6000' runway, until he just nosed down and forced it on, and slid to a stop about 1000' short of the end of the runway. No injuries or fire, just scraped the belly. He told me he probably could have floated down the whole runway if he wanted.




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[challenger_nami]

The winds were Slightly favouring RWY 21, by about only 20 degrees. See the attached METAR from CYYJ at the time of incident at around 1900 ZULU.


Maybe he also chose RWY 21 as a courtesy to Victoria International (CYYJ) to reduce the possibility of impact on the airport operation.

Had he chosen to land on RWY 27/09, if things went sideways and the aircraft broke up on landing and there was debris everywhere, the whole Victoria International Airport’s 3 runways could have been potentially shut down for hours. Have a look at the attached airport diagram for CYYJ.

By landing on RWY 21 and touching down past 27/09, he minimized the potential impact on RWY 27/09 operation.

He did not have to do that, but if what I said was his intention, he deserves credit.
Then again, if things did not work as well as they did here, he would be criticized for not choosing the longest runway, if the wind was not the deciding factor,

Airport Diagram and METAR attached.

[L39Guy]

Looks like a cheap Yak knock off

Actually, it is an upgraded Yak-18 - Wikipedia CJ6https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanchang_CJ-6.

There are no hydraulics, only pneumatics a normal system and an emergency system both of which would be used to get the landing gear down. It's a pretty simple system and a pretty simple aircraft. I have had one for a year and love it.

[airway]

The winds were Slightly favouring RWY 21, by about only 20 degrees. See the attached METAR from CYYJ at the time of incident at around 1900 ZULU.


Maybe he also chose RWY 21 as a courtesy to Victoria International (CYYJ) to reduce the possibility of impact on the airport operation.

Had he chosen to land on RWY 27/09, if things went sideways and the aircraft broke up on landing and there was debris everywhere, the whole Victoria International Airport’s 3 runways could have been potentially shut down for hours. Have a look at the attached airport diagram for CYYJ.

By landing on RWY 21 and touching down past 27/09, he minimized the potential impact on RWY 27/09 operation.

He did not have to do that, but if what I said was his intention, he deserves credit.
Then again, if things did not work as well as they did here, he would be criticized for not choosing the longest runway, if the wind was not the deciding factor,

Airport Diagram and METAR attached.

Did he actually touch down past 27/09?





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[challenger_nami]

the fact that the aircraft slid off the end of the runway caught my eye on this one.

Did he actually touch down past 27/09?

I don’t know for a fact, PURE SPECULATION. But if he slid off the end of 21, I don’t think he touched down at/before 27/09 if he approached on the proper Ref speed.

I could be wrong, if he came in too fast, he maybe he could have sled the whole length of the 5000’ runway.

Does anyone else know for a fact where he touched down?

[jakeandelwood]

maybe he veered off to the right of 21? that looks like Nicholson manfacturing on the right by the open door of the firetruck.

[AirFrame]

I heard yesterday that the only damage was to the propellor and the tail skid. I guess that means the flaps weren't lowered either.

As for aiming for the threshold... No. He shut the engine down to be sure it wasn't damaged, so probably aimed 1/3 down the runway to be sure he had a buffer in case his timing was off. As someone pointed out, with no drag from the gear, and likely no drag from the flap, he floated farther than expected and ended up touching down somewhere within the last 1000' of the runway and sliding off the end.

There's no way he touched down north of the east-west runway and slid that far without power.

[trey kule]

. Does anyone else know for a fact where he touched down?

Does it really matter? Minimal damage. No one hurt.
Picking it apart Is a bit unnecessary.

If I had to skid my plane in, I would be more than a little put out to read all the computer Captains sitting, back, relaxing, and second guessing me.

Looks to me that he did a darn good job after finding himself in a bad situation.

[challenger_nami]

. Does anyone else know for a fact where he touched down?

Does it really matter? Minimal damage. No one hurt.
Picking it apart Is a bit unnecessary.

If I had to skid my plane in, I would be more than a little put out to read all the computer Captains sitting, back, relaxing, and second guessing me.

Looks to me that he did a darn good job after finding himself in a bad situation.

Buddy,
No one is second guessing the pilot here. He did a superb job in landing the plane, and we realize that,

If you actually took the time to read the comments on this thread, you Will see that we are admiring that this pilot managed the situation in a way to minimize the impact on the airport’s operation.

It’s a good case study to learn from.
Cheers

[PilotDAR]

I could be wrong, if he came in too fast, he maybe he could have sled the whole length of the 5000’ runway.

Yes, you could be wrong - I'm struggling to imagine any aircraft sliding a mile along a runway!

we are admiring that this pilot managed the situation in a way to minimize the impact on the airport’s operation.

Yes, we are. Though minimizing impact on the airport's operation is a secondary thought, the pilot seems to have accomplished this well too. Double good job! A pilot who I have met, and respect, did a good job, all of the favourable markers are lining up for me, all is well...

It’s a good case study to learn from.

Well, okay, we have learned that a pilot with good skill, and a plan, executed it all, and the outcome was about as good as possible.

In the mean time, a recent flurry of accident videos being posted here is beginning to give me PTSD, so I'm generally avoiding them. Learn from a case study when we can, but let's not over do it....

[challenger_nami]

I could be wrong, if he came in too fast, he maybe he could have sled the whole length of the 5000’ runway.

Yes, you could be wrong - I'm struggling to imagine any aircraft sliding a mile along a runway!

we are admiring that this pilot managed the situation in a way to minimize the impact on the airport’s operation.

Yes, we are. Though minimizing impact on the airport's operation is a secondary thought, the pilot seems to have accomplished this well too. Double good job! A pilot who I have met, and respect, did a good job, all of the favourable markers are lining up for me, all is well...

It’s a good case study to learn from.

Well, okay, we have learned that a pilot with good skill, and a plan, executed it all, and the outcome was about as good as possible.

In the mean time, a recent flurry of accident videos being posted here is beginning to give me PTSD, so I'm generally avoiding them. Learn from a case study when we can, but let's not over do it....

@PilotDAR

In the mean time, a recent flurry of accident videos being posted here is beginning to give me PTSD, so I'm generally avoiding them. Learn from a case study when we can, but let's not over do it....

This section of the forum is titled: Accidents, incidents and overdue aircraft. Are you ranting that I am posting waaaay too many educational videos that you find disturbing?????
If you can’t handle the heat, well ... get out of the kitchen.
[*]
My postings are clearly branded of what they are, and you as the viewer have the choice of not watching them. In your case, maybe you will benefit from not browsing the Accidents, incidents and overdue aircraft section of avcanada.

Well, okay, we have learned that a pilot with good skill, and a plan, executed it all, and the outcome was about as good as possible.

Yes we did. And for those of us pilots who want to improve upon our piloting skills, we are also interested to figure out what plan of action this pilot followed. That is because we know his plan worked, and we can duplicate when we end up in a situation like his. That is called improving aviation safety by education

Yes, we are. Though minimizing impact on the airport's operation is a secondary thought, the pilot seems to have accomplished this well too. Double good job! A pilot who I have met, and respect, did a good job, all of the favourable markers are lining up for me, all is well...

Yes. Minimizing impact on others is secondary if not at the bottom of the checklist of priorities. However, for a pilot who has the competency to do it, which was the case for this pilot, minimizing side impact brings appreciation and respect from others who otherwise would be affected.

Yes, you could be wrong - I'm struggling to imagine any aircraft sliding a mile along a runway!

If you read my entire post, you could see that I believed the pilot aimed past the intersection of the other runway to avoid operational impact on the other runway, which is admirable. That is because the pilot knew that if he approached at the right speed, it would not take much distance for the aircraft to stop.
I included the GENERAL statement that maybe an aircraft on a very fast approach can potentially burn through 5000’ of runway ... mostly if let’s say it touches down, bounces and goes airborne and floates ...not just by sliding ... etc. As evident in this aircraft who ran out of a long runway, without engine:

https://youtu.be/WX2H3H8w--s

Unlike you, I don’t claim to know everything ... and that’s why I said, I could be wrong.

[PilotDAR]

My postings are clearly branded of what they are, and you as the viewer have the choice of not watching them.

Indeed, they are, thanks for that. I no longer open these threads, as you intend.

I agree that discussion of circumstances of accidents, can be very helpful to improving pilot skills. And, there can come a point where the flood of recollection of a accident can turn it to be counter productive for those of us who survived one - so I don't what Youtube accident videos anymore either.

Everyone has a different perspective....

[trey kule]

Well Challanger. N.......”Buddy”

(Were buddys now right)

So Buddy.

Help out those of us who fail to see the light in this incident. To have taken away the lessons learned.

What have you learned from this “case study”?

Please share. I look forward to learning from you.

[challenger_nami]

Well Challanger. N.......”Buddy”

(Were buddys now right)

So Buddy.

Help out those of us who fail to see the light in this incident. To have taken away the lessons learned.

What have you learned from this “case study”?

Please share. I look forward to learning from you.

(Were buddys now right)

I guess you missed the sarcasm in me calling you buddy. So to be clear, you being the bitter kind of person that you sound from your recent posts, NO, we are not buddies.

If you don't want to see the positive takeaways from this situation, then I won’t waste my time trying to dissect and digest it for you. But if you open your eyes and read the posts from @2R and @Airway, there are some good points there to pick up.

The picture of the pilot beside his aircraft after the incident, Alive and Well and Walking like a Pro, has the biggest take away. I wonder if you are capable of figuring it out... I have my doubts though.




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