Science-Based Alternative to Ease Quarantine Act Restrictions

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2R
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Re: Science-Based Alternative to Ease Quarantine Act Restrictions

Post by 2R »

https://youtu.be/GoRPVsN2SVM

Sweden is talking about joining the lockdown club , Stockholm first . Then maybe other less Swedish enclaves and wretched hives of scum and villainy :)

Apologies for no aviation reference , but a space port Mos Eisley Star Wars reference is close !
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twa22
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Re: Science-Based Alternative to Ease Quarantine Act Restrictions

Post by twa22 »

montado wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:50 am
twa22 wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:21 am
montado wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:14 pm https://youtu.be/hStrML7vk5k

I wonder why Sweden’s chief epidemiologist says masks aren’t proven to be very effective? Discussion on the masks starts at 6:30 for those who aren’t interested in the whole discussion.

Sweden 🇸🇪 is the only light in the tunnel this pandemic. JT just finished spreading more fear, Sweden is still standing by their choices knowing covid might be around for a while, looks like they are settling in quite well for a long haul, the rest of the world is in a panic. I find Anders to be quite frank and logical in his approach to the pandemic. He doesn’t butter anything up to sound like they have perfect outcomes, but I’m surprised Sweden is alone in their approach.

How long until rockie chimes in and tells us all how dumb we are and how important masks are?
Obidience and responsibility, that was my take away from that video. By the sounds of it, the Swedes seem to listen alot more to the rules then any other nation... Hence the much more relaxed rules. The approach may work for them but it likely wouldn't anywhere else in the world, just look at some of the examples around...

As for face masks, I don't know if he's right or wrong... But does it hurt to wear one? Even if it makes the absolute slightest difference, it's better then nothing, if there are no negative consequences to wearing one

There has to be a balanced approach, which is what people don't seem to understand
Well I think you make an excellent point. And here would be some of my rebuttal if we were going to debate the value of mandatory masks.

This mask study https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/ ... .2020.0376
I found it hard to decipher all the math behind everything. But correct me if I'm wrong, the study says masks are effective with social distancing and lockdown. It also says masks actually pose more risk to the wearer of the mask to get infected. However it says the benefits to the majority are greater by wearing a mask if we have about 65 percent compliance. So if masks are not really effective but also make more risk to get sick, this is a con? To make something clear the reason I question the efficacy of masks as presented in this study is that the study is combining mask use with lockdowns. I don't know how clear cut the case they make for masks is. I would like to see studies directly related to masks and see if they have great enough value to outweigh the downside. However some people told me if everyone in the world wears a mask and it stops one covid death it was worth it. Maybe I have no heart but I don't work with that logic.

For people hard of hearing we have social consequences. Body language is huge and all you see now is mask face. Can't lip read, can't send a smile. This is a con, not sure how measurable it is.

Young Kids learning to pronounce words are watching teachers with masks on. This is a con.

People may think the masks are very effective and reduce social distancing. However one could argue if we all wear masks we keep lore distance because someone wearing a mask is less inviting. So not sure.

Mental health, social distancing and mask as a whole are having huge impacts, possibly hikes in suicide and drug abuse during pandemics. Don't have sources at this time or evidence to back up this claim, however I would be interested to see if this is studied.

The costs of masks and environmental impact of the abuse of medical supplies. This is a con.

Mask culture may generate more fear. This is a con (unless you like to exploit people and their vulnerabilities, then generating fear can work for you.)

And personal freedom... The last and least one I'm even after.. I really don't give a shit about it mask freedom if we save lives in a measurable way that shows it out weights the cons I discuss above. However I don't agree with giving up my freedom for nothing. For lies, for BS. Honestly masks have torn some of my family apart. I literally have family I can't talk to. Family that tells me "facts". (facts like wearing glasses prevents getting covid. Facts like covid death rate is 7 percent) I would say taking away people's freedoms does some measurable damage. Measure it against the efficacy of a cloth mask.

So I think the list of potential cons is worth acknowledgement. I think saying masks don't work great but they do zero damage is completely false.
Time will tell on the efficacy of masks, I'm neither pro nor con on them. I personally started wearing a mask in all enclosed indoor spaces right from the beginning, for my own piece of mind...am I doing a good or bad thing? No idea... What my logic tells me is that a proper mask should in theory stop some of my particulate, as well as help me from inhaling foreign particulate. I draw this conclusion from working in conditions where dust is created or aerosal is present (I know the size of these particles is bigger but same principle applies)

Now as for physiological aspect of all this? Oh boy, that's whole other massive issue which without a doubt will have a lot of negative repercussions due to both over exaggeration and being too leisure, but only time will tell
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mixturerich
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Re: Science-Based Alternative to Ease Quarantine Act Restrictions

Post by mixturerich »

If masks didn’t work why the f*ck would doctors and nurses wear them lol

Where the hell did common sense go

They’re not the magic bullet but obviously they are going to work to some degree
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twa22
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Re: Science-Based Alternative to Ease Quarantine Act Restrictions

Post by twa22 »

mixturerich wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:40 pm If masks didn’t work why the f*ck would doctors and nurses wear them lol

Where the hell did common sense go

They’re not the magic bullet but obviously they are going to work to some degree
Well that's just it right, and that's always been my mentality... but I think the problem now is that it's not just surgical masks or N95s being worn; now we're talking about shit cloth masks that anyone can knit together at home. The problem is, who knows a) what the real efficacy of those are and b) how sanitary they are from the point of view if you keep them on an entire day. I've worn a cloth mask for hours, and they get pretty gross, so I swap to a new clean one, or the disposable type every 3-4 hours, if I have to wear one for hours upon hours
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rxl
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Re: Science-Based Alternative to Ease Quarantine Act Restrictions

Post by rxl »

From The Royal Society’s study -

“In summary, our modelling analyses provide support for the immediate, universal adoption of facemasks by the public, similar to what has been done in Taiwan, for example, where production will soon reach 13 million facemasks daily, with well-developed plans for N95 respirator production in the pipeline [68]. Our analyses indicate that actions to facilitate this in the UK should include clear instructions on the fabrication and safe use of home-made masks, as well as accompanying governmental policies to increase swiftly the availability of medical standard surgical, or N95 respirators, to the public.“

If this isn’t endorsement for the universal wearing of masks, then I don’t know what is.
It’s hard to imagine a more august, authoritative scientific voice on this, or any other matter.
The list of Fellows of the Royal Society Includes a few names that you may have heard before:
Sir Isaac Newton, Charles Darwin, James Clerk Maxwell just to name just a few.

As far as I’m concerned, this ends the argument.
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Re: Science-Based Alternative to Ease Quarantine Act Restrictions

Post by '97 Tercel »

Well if Newton's onboard then so am I!
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mixturerich
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Re: Science-Based Alternative to Ease Quarantine Act Restrictions

Post by mixturerich »

Given the meticulously precautionary nature of the pilot job, I’d be surprised if any of our kind were anti-mask. Just think of the Swiss cheese model. The absence of masks would just be another slice with a hole in it. Even if they were 1% effective it would still be better than nothing. Any facial covering is obviously going to make your breath create less of a “cloud”, and when it comes to coughing or sneezing the benefits are even more obvious.

Anyways.
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pelmet
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Re: Science-Based Alternative to Ease Quarantine Act Restrictions

Post by pelmet »

Can you imagine what the covid situation would be like here if we had listened to Air Canada. We already have partial shutdowns again with the 14 day quarantine. They wanted people flying back and forth to Belgium. And they probably Prague too. We might have a full shutdown here if different had been done.

"According to the Belgian health institute Sciensano, Belgium has recorded an average of 7,876 new daily infections over the last seven days, a 79% rise on the previous week. Last Tuesday the country reported 12,051 cases in 24 hours, its highest daily figure since the pandemic began."

"The Czech Republic is also battling soaring case numbers. On Friday the country reported a record 11,100 new cases in the past 24 hours, and the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control says the country has the highest 14-day cumulative number of Covid-19 cases per 100,000 people across the continent."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54602999

By the way, we just got taken off the EU list.
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TCAS II
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Re: Science-Based Alternative to Ease Quarantine Act Restrictions

Post by TCAS II »

https://www.alberta.ca/release.cfm?xID= ... 78164FB904

Travellers returning to Canada continue to be legally required to quarantine for 14 days after entering the country. The new pilot announced Oct. 22 will explore the feasibility of using a rigorous testing and monitoring program as a strategy to reduce the mandatory quarantine period, while keeping Canadians safe.
Beginning on Nov. 2, COVID-19 testing will be offered initially at two ports of entry into Canada: the Coutts land border crossing and the Calgary International Airport in Alberta. Travellers who participate will receive a COVID-19 test upon entry into Canada before proceeding into the required quarantine.
Once the test comes back negative, they will then be allowed to leave their place of quarantine so long as they commit to getting a second test on day six or seven after arrival, at a community pharmacy participating in the pilot program.
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spinaxis
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Re: Science-Based Alternative to Ease Quarantine Act Restrictions

Post by spinaxis »

mixturerich wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:46 pm Given the meticulously precautionary nature of the pilot job, I’d be surprised if any of our kind were anti-mask. Just think of the Swiss cheese model. The absence of masks would just be another slice with a hole in it. Even if they were 1% effective it would still be better than nothing. Any facial covering is obviously going to make your breath create less of a “cloud”, and when it comes to coughing or sneezing the benefits are even more obvious.

Anyways.
Hate to break it to you. Lots of senior pilots I've flown with have expressed their mistrust in the science behind masks. Typically these are the same pilots I have to listen to talk about Trump for hours on end. Boomers can't retire fast enough for me. The industry will be a better place when they are gone.
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montado
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Re: Science-Based Alternative to Ease Quarantine Act Restrictions

Post by montado »

spinaxis wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:56 am
mixturerich wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:46 pm Given the meticulously precautionary nature of the pilot job, I’d be surprised if any of our kind were anti-mask. Just think of the Swiss cheese model. The absence of masks would just be another slice with a hole in it. Even if they were 1% effective it would still be better than nothing. Any facial covering is obviously going to make your breath create less of a “cloud”, and when it comes to coughing or sneezing the benefits are even more obvious.

Anyways.
Hate to break it to you. Lots of senior pilots I've flown with have expressed their mistrust in the science behind masks. Typically these are the same pilots I have to listen to talk about Trump for hours on end. Boomers can't retire fast enough for me. The industry will be a better place when they are gone.
Did you make an ALT account just to post this? :lol:

Well, I’m not a boomer, and I question the masks... so we can end the ageism debate. There are young and old people who question the masks... and there’s young and old people getting covid and spreading it. I don’t know why everyone likes to point fingers at different sexes, races, generations like they are the problem. It’s just a distraction. At this point I have kind of lost motivation to speak as to why I disagree with masks. Speaking about masks got me banned from here for a week. If you post anything questioning cloth masks on other social media platforms you get banned as this is against their content policy.

So it makes me wonder what people’s perceptions really are because we are distancing from everyone and engaging in a more virtual world and platforms however ideas a screened and free speech is not necessarily allowed. I was told in July by my family if we all wear masks for two weeks we can beat covid... mask compliance is at 95 percent. I don’t feel like we have beat covid... so you mean to tell me it’s the 5 percent that ruined it for the rest of us? Or are masks less useful than most of us think? Do you think when I go for my recurrent training and sit in the box for 4 hours with a couple other pilots that our masks can be effective for that length of time?

I wear a mask because it’s a simpler way to live right now, not because I have any belief in its efficacy. If it makes you feel safer that I wear a mask, good in ya... wish the experts would get to the bottom of things because we still don’t seem to know exactly how all these people have contracted covid. Nearly a year in we seem to have no more evidence that masks are effective or not, and why mask compliance is so high yet cases keep happening.
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AuxBatOn
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Re: Science-Based Alternative to Ease Quarantine Act Restrictions

Post by AuxBatOn »

TCAS II wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:23 am https://www.alberta.ca/release.cfm?xID= ... 78164FB904

Travellers returning to Canada continue to be legally required to quarantine for 14 days after entering the country. The new pilot announced Oct. 22 will explore the feasibility of using a rigorous testing and monitoring program as a strategy to reduce the mandatory quarantine period, while keeping Canadians safe.
Beginning on Nov. 2, COVID-19 testing will be offered initially at two ports of entry into Canada: the Coutts land border crossing and the Calgary International Airport in Alberta. Travellers who participate will receive a COVID-19 test upon entry into Canada before proceeding into the required quarantine.
Once the test comes back negative, they will then be allowed to leave their place of quarantine so long as they commit to getting a second test on day six or seven after arrival, at a community pharmacy participating in the pilot program.
Can’t wait to see if the rush of international travellers people said this would generate will materialize...
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Re: Science-Based Alternative to Ease Quarantine Act Restrictions

Post by Dash.Trash »

AuxBatOn wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:45 pm
TCAS II wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:23 am https://www.alberta.ca/release.cfm?xID= ... 78164FB904

Travellers returning to Canada continue to be legally required to quarantine for 14 days after entering the country. The new pilot announced Oct. 22 will explore the feasibility of using a rigorous testing and monitoring program as a strategy to reduce the mandatory quarantine period, while keeping Canadians safe.
Beginning on Nov. 2, COVID-19 testing will be offered initially at two ports of entry into Canada: the Coutts land border crossing and the Calgary International Airport in Alberta. Travellers who participate will receive a COVID-19 test upon entry into Canada before proceeding into the required quarantine.
Once the test comes back negative, they will then be allowed to leave their place of quarantine so long as they commit to getting a second test on day six or seven after arrival, at a community pharmacy participating in the pilot program.
Can’t wait to see if the rush of international travellers people said this would generate will materialize...
The restrictions on foreign nationals and non-essential travel are still in place, so it’s doubtful we will be seeing many more international visitors until those restrictions are eased. This just speeds up the process for those who are actually allowed to enter the country.
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spinaxis
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Re: Science-Based Alternative to Ease Quarantine Act Restrictions

Post by spinaxis »

It's a start.... this isn't going to change overnight and at least they are trialing something now.
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Dh8Classic
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Re: Science-Based Alternative to Ease Quarantine Act Restrictions

Post by Dh8Classic »

spinaxis wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:56 am
mixturerich wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:46 pm Given the meticulously precautionary nature of the pilot job, I’d be surprised if any of our kind were anti-mask. Just think of the Swiss cheese model. The absence of masks would just be another slice with a hole in it. Even if they were 1% effective it would still be better than nothing. Any facial covering is obviously going to make your breath create less of a “cloud”, and when it comes to coughing or sneezing the benefits are even more obvious.

Anyways.
Hate to break it to you. Lots of senior pilots I've flown with have expressed their mistrust in the science behind masks. Typically these are the same pilots I have to listen to talk about Trump for hours on end.
What did they say. Only ask because I would mind saying a lot of positive things about him for a few hours with you. Want to start on this thread. What routes are you bidding these days.
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mixturerich
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Re: Science-Based Alternative to Ease Quarantine Act Restrictions

Post by mixturerich »

spinaxis wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:56 am Typically these are the same pilots I have to listen to talk about Trump for hours on end.
Oh I hate that.

You’ll also hear the old “everyone is so sensitive, you can’t say anything these days” statement. Time and time again.
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altiplano
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Re: Science-Based Alternative to Ease Quarantine Act Restrictions

Post by altiplano »

Is it that they are anti-mask or anti-authoritarian imposition of kegally mandated masks and other similar rules.

I don't have a problem wearing a mask if that's the current recommendation or ask. Same goes with limiting gatherings, adjusting my behavior, etc, ask and that's fine... But I do have a problem that it's a law requiring me to do that. Or restricting who can be in my private home, or where I can walk in a public.

These things shouldn't be a law, they should be things that are requested by a real leadership who can inspire people to pull together. So far all I see is lip service of " were all in this together" from the powers that be.
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spinaxis
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Re: Science-Based Alternative to Ease Quarantine Act Restrictions

Post by spinaxis »

mixturerich wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:03 am
spinaxis wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:56 am Typically these are the same pilots I have to listen to talk about Trump for hours on end.
Oh I hate that.

You’ll also hear the old “everyone is so sensitive, you can’t say anything these days” statement. Time and time again.
I personally don't care about people's politics. But just like... Shut up. I don't want to listen to it for 5 hours when I don't have the option to walk away from the conversion. Same goes for religion and their opinions on the LGBTQ community.

The sooner they all retire the better.
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