Freelance flight instructors in the Toronto area?

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anthonyp
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Freelance flight instructors in the Toronto area?

Post by anthonyp »

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Re: Freelance flight instructors in the Toronto area?

Post by photofly »

What plane are you hoping to purchase, and where are you hoping to park it? That will make a big difference to your plans.

An issue with freelance instructors is that you will invariably be a side-gig for them, and always be playing second fiddle to whatever they do for real money. (Nobody earns a living doing freelance instruction.) You need someone who is going to be around for six months or a year, and not head off to that airline right seat job they finally got. That particular pressure might be eased these days, though.
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Re: Freelance flight instructors in the Toronto area?

Post by Squaretail »

anthonyp wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:19 pm
I also heard from somewhere that Brampton airport does not allow flight training to occur out of their aerodome unless the training is being offered by the flight school within the airport. Is this a standard clause at other airports? Can freelance training even be accomplished?
While some airport management cliques like to perpetuate this idea, I have yet to see an actual bylaw that can be enforced. Freelance instruction can be delivered at any public aerodrome or airport.
1) I don't want to deal with any scheduling conflicts
2) I hear some flight schools give preferred flying to their students who are completing all levels of training and not just the PPL
2) I want the plane to be available any time I desire
3) When training, I'm going to want to fly at 3 times a week to help speed things up
4) I want the same experience each time - I don't want to have to deal with remembering multiple plane models and their numbers each flight
5) I want to be comfortable knowing that the plane I will use to fly after receiving my license will be the same plane I trained in.
1) Freelance instructors also have personal schedules and other customers.
2) Go to specific schools and ask. Some schools do prioritize some students, others do not.
2) This isn’t the case in private ownership much more than renting. Except that you are in charge of making sure the airplane is ready, not the school.
3) Good idea. Make sure you are flexible with your schedule to get that in. If your three dedicated training times are fixed, be prepared to lose half of them to weather.
4) Schools don’t typically trade you between types while training.
5) An overrated concern. Ideally if you are trained well as a PPL, you will be comfortable transitioning.
1) I'm an entrepreneur myself. I would like to hire someone that has the hustle and desire to be their own boss. That's just the kind of person I am.
2) Flights schools aren't hurting for my business - I would rather pay an instructor (a little more) directly as opposed to them receiving slim pickings from the flight school
3) The instructor (I would hope) would have more skin in the game and provide a better experience because he would want the training to complete and possibly move onto the next level
4) I don't want to have one instructor one week and someone else the next.
1) These are tertiary traits that you should be seeking. After all, they are not their own boss, you are hiring them. You primarily need them to be competent.
2) If you are seeking good instruction, be prepare to pay somewhat more than the school rate. If you are prepared to pay more than the instructor will earn, but less than the school would charge, don’t complain about who you get.
3) What level is he/she moving on to? Freelance instructors frequently have less “skin in the game” since they don’t have a pay structure that rewards completion or completeness. School instructors have a direct incentive since often their pay scale is related to their class of rating.
4) This request can be followed at most schools as much as staff retention is followed. But the same could be said of freelancers.
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Re: Freelance flight instructors in the Toronto area?

Post by photofly »

Squaretail wrote: Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:57 am. Freelance instruction can be delivered at any public aerodrome or airport.
As a side note, Brampton Aerodrome isn’t a public aerodrome. It’s owned and operated by the Brampton Flying Club for its members, and they absolutely have a right to restrict who enters their property, like any land owner does.
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Re: Freelance flight instructors in the Toronto area?

Post by TalkingPie »

For what it's worth as another PPL student, I considered buying a plane too, especially as my instructor at the time was pushing me in that direction. Reasons why I didn't, in no particular order:

1) Any plane you would reasonably consider as a training aircraft will likely be north of 30 years old. Even though I'm mechanically inclined enough to self-maintain the 21 year old car I drive, I didn't want to be worrying about the plane being mechanically safe in addition to learning the basics of flying. When you rent, you've got someone else taking care of that for you.

2) Owning can potentially be cheaper, but for the relatively small amount of hours it takes to get a PPL, you've got a lot of fixed costs in plane ownership and some level of risk. A C150 doesn't cost much to fly... until it needs a $25k engine rebuild. It may well not happen during your ownership, but if it does, it's going to hurt! And of course insurance, annuals, and parking fees are fixed costs you'll pay regardless of how little you fly. You'll also have your capital tied up in the plane, and while these planes have essentially stopped depreciating, you still have the opportunity and/or interest cost of buying the plane.

3) At least where I live, it seems to be easier to find a slot in a flying school than finding an independent instructor. In my experience (my first flying school was a one man, one plane operation), it's actually harder to schedule with one person than it is with a multi-plane, multi-instructor school.

4) When you have never flown before, you don't know how much you'll like it or how much talent you'll have for it. Renting from a school leaves you the option of stopping at any point. If you own the plane, getting out is somewhat harder.

5) I could not have foreseen this when I started training nearly 2 years ago, but had I had my money tied up in a plane when Covid hit and I was laid off, I'd be much more financially stressed right now. If $30-80k isn't a large portion of your savings, this worry may not apply to you.

I've attended three different flying schools, and except for my very first lesson, every single one has been on a C172. Schools generally only have one or two PPL trainer models, so it's not difficult to stay on the same type, even if you're not flying the exact same plane every time. Regarding scheduling, having a plane doesn't help you much when you're still dependent on an instructor's availability in order to fly.

I'd suggest looking into what kind of plane you'd potentially want to buy, how long you'd want to keep it, what your up-front, fixed, and variable costs would be, and compare that to just renting from a school. Keep in mind that you'll probably want a broker or some other experienced person help you with your purchase, because as new pilots, there's no way we can properly evaluate a plane.

Plan on about 75 hours of flight time in order to get your PPL, which is supposedly the average amount of hours it takes. 45 hours is minimum, and very few do it in this amount of time. Personally I'm at 100 and counting, admittedly well above average.
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anthonyp
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Re: Freelance flight instructors in the Toronto area?

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Re: Freelance flight instructors in the Toronto area?

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Once you are into the solo phase of training, having your own plane is awesome. You might want to consider it again for when you’ve a few solo hours.
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Re: Freelance flight instructors in the Toronto area?

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

anthonyp

How much are you willing to pay for an instructor ?
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Re: Freelance flight instructors in the Toronto area?

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Re: Freelance flight instructors in the Toronto area?

Post by Bede »

anthonyp wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:19 pm In the next two months, I plan on starting my PPL. I haven't decided if I will rent a plane from a flight school (and use their instructors) or if I will pony up some money to purchase a Cessna or Piper and hire a freelance instructor to teach me to fly.
You will learn more about aviation as an airplane owner. You will not save money. If you have a partner or two you'll break even as an owner. Otherwise, it's cheaper renting (see my previous posts).
anthonyp wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:19 pm How would I go about finding a freelance instructor in Toronto. I would imagine that there are plenty of instructors, but I would believe that they are hired by flight schools already.
Ask around. Get to know people. You will find an instructor, but may not get exactly what you're looking for.
anthonyp wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:19 pm 1) I don't want to deal with any scheduling conflicts
2) I hear some flight schools give preferred flying to their students who are completing all levels of training and not just the PPL
2) I want the plane to be available any time I desire
3) When training, I'm going to want to fly at 3 times a week to help speed things up
4) I want the same experience each time - I don't want to have to deal with remembering multiple plane models and their numbers each flight
5) I want to be comfortable knowing that the plane I will use to fly after receiving my license will be the same plane I trained in.
If those are your priorities and don't mind spending, buy your own plane. Lot's of info on this board about that.
anthonyp wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:19 pm 1) I'm an entrepreneur myself. I would like to hire someone that has the hustle and desire to be their own boss. That's just the kind of person I am.
This will be your biggest challenge. It's very difficult to find an instructor that matches your drive/ambition. Nothing wrong with that, but there's a whole spectrum out there. Some instructors are simply better suited to students who want to have their hand held. I had this issue when I was a student. I am an instructor (among other things now) and I can't recall a student who was as motivated as I was when I was starting out.
anthonyp wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:19 pm 2) Flights schools aren't hurting for my business - I would rather pay an instructor (a little more) directly as opposed to them receiving slim pickings from the flight school
You will likely be paying a freelance instructor the same, or slightly more, than the going instructor rate. You won't find anyone of any quality to instruct you for slightly more than what they're earning at the flying school. No different than the independent plumber or electrician. I charge more than the going rate because I have a lot more experience than your typical instructor. My students also tend to finish with far fewer hours than the typical student. (This can also be attributed to the fact that I don't take unmotivated or slow students.)
anthonyp wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:19 pm 3) The instructor (I would hope) would have more skin in the game and provide a better experience because he would want the training to complete and possibly move onto the next level
Next level as in an airline job? I guess things have changed in the last few months, but prior to Covid, this would have been your biggest issue - instructor gets new job and quits instructing.
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Re: Freelance flight instructors in the Toronto area?

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photofly wrote: Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:32 am (Nobody earns a living doing freelance instruction.)
My wife does. She sets her own hours, earns more than she would at a school, chooses her students and has no FTU BS to deal with.
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Re: Freelance flight instructors in the Toronto area?

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Earning more than you would at a school still doesn’t meet the bar of earning a living in the GTA.

The rest is not in dispute, but if she honestly earns more than, say, $60k annually from freelance instructing I will be impressed. If she doesn’t, it still only qualifies as a side gig.
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Re: Freelance flight instructors in the Toronto area?

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photofly wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:34 am Earning more than you would at a school still doesn’t meet the bar of earning a living in the GTA.

The rest is not in dispute, but if she honestly earns more than, say, $60k annually from freelance instructing I will be impressed. If she doesn’t, it still only qualifies as a side gig.
Well if that's the universally agreed upon criterion, than I guess it's just a side gig to her job as a mom. :roll:
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Re: Freelance flight instructors in the Toronto area?

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I just mean that it’s very hard to earn enough as a freelance instructor to support oneself in the GTA. If financial circumstances permit it, then it’s a great gig.

The OP should PM you for details :)
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Re: Freelance flight instructors in the Toronto area?

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photofly wrote: Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:37 am
Squaretail wrote: Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:57 am. Freelance instruction can be delivered at any public aerodrome or airport.
As a side note, Brampton Aerodrome isn’t a public aerodrome. It’s owned and operated by the Brampton Flying Club for its members, and they absolutely have a right to restrict who enters their property, like any land owner does.
Ah, did not know that. Private aerodromes are of course a different matter. Point still stands that I see clubs or groups try to do this at public aerodromes.
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Re: Freelance flight instructors in the Toronto area?

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photofly wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:38 pm I just mean that it’s very hard to earn enough as a freelance instructor to support oneself in the GTA. If financial circumstances permit it, then it’s a great gig.

The OP should PM you for details :)
It’s hard to earn enough to support yourself in the GTA period. By your criteria being an FO at Porter or Jazz is a side gig. :)
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Re: Freelance flight instructors in the Toronto area?

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Yep. I don't think you can support yourself as a FO either. But at least you can dine on hope and look forward to the sunny uplands of the left seat at AC.
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Re: Freelance flight instructors in the Toronto area?

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Depending on how much the local schools charge, you could probably find someone willing to freelance for the same or less. As example, when I was instructing, the school charged the student $70/hr+tax for my time. My portion of that was $26/hr.

When I was training for my instructor rating I hired a freelance class 1. Paid her $60/hr. Cost me less than school rate, she made more than what the school paid. Win-win. Mind you, someone freelancing is likely doing it on the side so availability and scheduling may not always be to your taste.

Buying and operating can save you money. I did it and I came out of it relatively unscathed. Saved about 10k. On the flip side a severe maintenance item could set you back right from the get go. If I had to do it over again, I would. But I'd try and find partners to own alongside me - like bede said above. The key is to get in and out though. The longer you own it, the more it will cost you on idle fees (parking, annuals). My plane also had a mogas STC which I made extensive use of. At the time (2016) I was putting 93 ethanol-free in it for between $1-1.10 a litre. I used a cash back credit card and a Shell loyalty card to collect points. Think avgas was around $1.55-$1.75 back then. No idea what 100LL costs now.
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Re: Freelance flight instructors in the Toronto area?

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ifrroutes wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:17 am Depending on how much the local schools charge, you could probably find someone willing to freelance for the same or less. As example, when I was instructing, the school charged the student $70/hr+tax for my time. My portion of that was $26/hr.
Ughh. I earned $25/hr twenty years ago. The school charged $40/hr. So much for an instructor shortage.
ifrroutes wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:17 am When I was training for my instructor rating I hired a freelance class 1. Paid her $60/hr. Cost me less than school rate, she made more than what the school paid. Win-win. Mind you, someone freelancing is likely doing it on the side so availability and scheduling may not always be to your taste.
I charge $80/hr and I consider it a charity for friends. Find any other private contractor that charges less than $80/hr. Plumber? Electrician? Hair stylist?
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Re: Freelance flight instructors in the Toronto area?

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Hey it seems like you should check out Flight Club (www.flightclub.life) to rent a plane to do your PPL rather than purchase it. As for instructors, some flight schools have freelance instructors as well. Pm and I’ll give you their numbers.
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Re: Freelance flight instructors in the Toronto area?

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pasitew wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:46 pm Hey it seems like you should check out Flight Club (www.flightclub.life) to rent a plane to do your PPL rather than purchase it. As for instructors, some flight schools have freelance instructors as well. Pm and I’ll give you their numbers.
That’s not legal. CPL yess, PPL no.
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Re: Freelance flight instructors in the Toronto area?

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Bede wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:29 am
photofly wrote: Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:32 am (Nobody earns a living doing freelance instruction.)
My wife does. She sets her own hours, earns more than she would at a school, chooses her students and has no FTU BS to deal with.
Would like to talk to your wife about training. Please have her DM me.
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Re: Freelance flight instructors in the Toronto area?

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I think it all depends on what you want to do after you have your ppl.
If you want to go on and get your CPL and or IFR than a 150 appropriately equipped is the way to go. I flew a friend to Chatam 2 years ago to pick up a 150 that he paid 18K for, that plane today is worth the same if not a little more. As long as you "buy well" you're not going to lose money on a small plane. I just bought a second plane, a pa32-300, that I brought back from Whitehorse and I could sell it today for more than I bought it for and I haven't had it a month, it was a good deal and it took me a long time to find it. There are a lot of planes coming for sale out west that due to Covid are not getting vacuumed down to the US.
If on the other hand, you want to just get your ppl and then fly for fun, I would buy a plane that can carry some people or, as much as a plane that you can afford, to an extent. That way you get to learn on the plane you will be flying with passengers, and you can use it after for all the trips and fun that you want.
I have seen no limit to access to freelance instructors.
The advantage is that with a freelance instructor and your own plane you can fly for more than 2 hr time slots at a time. I know some instructors who will teach 8hrs a day with you when you are ready for it.
Renting a plane with schools is a pain and it has only gotten worse. I think Canadian Flyers has 8 planes and 24 instructors, do you have any idea how hard it is to get a plane with your instructor on a fair-weather day? Forget about renting a plane after you have a licence, that is impossible due to demand.

From what I have seen, your own plane at a small field will be the most enjoyable if you can afford it. It will take more time, more brainpower and eat up more of your free time, but if you can afford it, its the best thing you can do in your free time.

On Sunday I flew into CYOO to pick up a friend as we were shuttling planes around. The place was a gong show and we were 15 min sitting on the taxiway waiting to get out. If you are a student, renting a plane and an instructor in a 90 min time slot, that is all wasted time. I also had to hold outside of the control zone for another 15 min just to get in.

Don't get me wrong, buying a plane takes a lot of work and a lot of resources and its a daunting task when you are starting out. But if you can afford it I think its an amazing privilege. The ability to take your own plane up on your own time and go anywhere you want with it is priceless!

Happy to help, pm me if you want to connect, I'm out of a small private strip in Toronto area. I got my PPl 4 yrs ago and bought my first plane right afterwards.
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Re: Freelance flight instructors in the Toronto area?

Post by PilotDAR »

Hey it seems like you should check out Flight Club (www.flightclub.life) to rent a plane to do your PPL rather than purchase it. As for instructors, some flight schools have freelance instructors as well. Pm and I’ll give you their numbers.
Those flightclub guys could send you flying in a "fast" PA 140 (whatever that is), or a 172, with no display of registration at all! Best stick to the legal way to receive flying instruction: An FTU and their plane, or the plane you own, and the instructor you hire.
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Re: Freelance flight instructors in the Toronto area?

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waterdog wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 5:29 pm On Sunday I flew into CYOO to pick up a friend as we were shuttling planes around. The place was a gong show and we were 15 min sitting on the taxiway waiting to get out. If you are a student, renting a plane and an instructor in a 90 min time slot, that is all wasted time. I also had to hold outside of the control zone for another 15 min just to get in.
I was there too for a pleasure flight with a friend, circling north of the control zone for twenty minutes or so at about 12:30. I've never seen it that busy. I wouldn't be surprised if Oshawa was the busiest airport in the country for the time we were holding. I have to give credit to the controllers that day - their effectiveness, professionalism, and performance was nothing short of spectacular.
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