Hawk Air

[pelmet]

@Creeper and @Pelmet

I realize that You guys have a history together, which I know nothing about ... and prefer not to know about.

I do 100% support @Pelmet’s technical aviation views as they seem to match my own flying safety style.

I don’t fly a beaver, but I have a similar “killer Items check” for the type of airplane I fly.

Cheers guys

Thanks. I'll stick to technical stuff if others do.


One thing I found interesting in the report was the de Havilland procedure for a an engine failure after takeoff which says.....

"The DHC-2 flight manual contains a section on engine failures after takeoff: the first item calls for the pilot to “[l]ower the nose immediately, to maintain airspeed at 65 mph. The final item of the procedure is capitalized and is followed by 2 caution messages:

(j) KEEP STRAIGHT AHEAD AND CHANGE DIRECTION ONLY ENOUGH TO MISS OBSTACLES. USE RUDDER ONLY.

CAUTION

Always maintain enough airspeed to assure full control of aircraft to point of touchdown. Coarse use of ailerons near the stall airspeed precipitates wing dropping."

I understand the concern about stalling but does it seem a bit extreme to not use any aileron at the target speed. Haven't flown a Beaver yet, so not familiar with how the typical training is done for this.

Where are you getting that info from? I only ask as the -2 has more revisions to it's POH than most.

Nearly 3000 hours on floats on the -2 and I will admit that you really couldn't find a more docile airframe to "play with".

Training is pretty simple... It doesn't take much to demonstrate that the aircraft is a gem to handle at low speeds. The only caveat is full flaps and applying full power. At that regime the damn thing will roll given the torque factor. A useful exersise at altitude for demonstration purposes only.

Thanks for the very useful info from your experience.

The quote I made is in section 1.6.6.1 of the report which you can access from the second post in this thread. The report states that this information is from the “DHC-2 flight manual”.

[rookiepilot]

Very interesting comment to make. Are you also 100% behind Pelmet when it comes to making personal attacks

Challenger, you are new here, so you are probably thinking to yourself "what the hell is this person with a ridiculous handle talking about". Bottom line, he came out of nowhere to start insulting me in a thread a couple of years ago(which I happened to just update with the final report a couple of minutes ago) and then he started harassing me with insults after most posts that I would make. So, I decided to treat him the way he treats others and guess what, he is still upset about it. Oh well. He even went over to another forum briefly with entertaining ranting about wanting a fight. Now he just comes back and ruins good threads once in a while.

My advice is treat others the way you would like to be treated and anger management. You can read the thread below.....

viewtopic.php?f=118&t=123862

Oh Pelmet (nice handle and one that I do not comprehend either. I suppose we have something in common!)

Thank-you for your dedication towards aviation safety and your lack of tack when it comes to commenting about an area of our industry that you know nothing about.

I'm not sure why you felt the need to admonish my person to a relatively new forum member but I'll take a stab at it. Your inability to accept that you once made one hell of a cheap shot at my failed marriage and yes I hold a grudge. I would expect you to feel the same way if the roles were reversed!

Anger issues? Well on an aviation forum where I gave what I still believe to be sound advice to another poster in regards to their marital trials and tribulations you decided that it was fair game to attack me.

I have not not will I forget it. My offer to buy you lunch and talk things out in person still stands.

Back to the topic at hand....

Does one need a checklist to prevent "killer items" in a -2? Complacency can play a part in any accident/incident but trying to reinvent the wheel isn't going to change a damn thing.

Typically a -2 driver fills up the belly tanks themselves or watches a fueler do it. Taking off and blowing a tank is pure piss poor management and no checklist could ever prevent that.

Stay safe and you keep saving the world one key stroke at a time my friend!

Maybe some posters need a longer holiday. Some badly needed R & R.
A much, much longer holiday.

[pelmet]

Challenger, you are new here, so you are probably thinking to yourself "what the hell is this person with a ridiculous handle talking about". Bottom line, he came out of nowhere to start insulting me in a thread a couple of years ago(which I happened to just update with the final report a couple of minutes ago) and then he started harassing me with insults after most posts that I would make. So, I decided to treat him the way he treats others and guess what, he is still upset about it. Oh well. He even went over to another forum briefly with entertaining ranting about wanting a fight. Now he just comes back and ruins good threads once in a while.

My advice is treat others the way you would like to be treated and anger management. You can read the thread below.....

viewtopic.php?f=118&t=123862

Oh Pelmet (nice handle and one that I do not comprehend either. I suppose we have something in common!)

Thank-you for your dedication towards aviation safety and your lack of tack when it comes to commenting about an area of our industry that you know nothing about.

I'm not sure why you felt the need to admonish my person to a relatively new forum member but I'll take a stab at it. Your inability to accept that you once made one hell of a cheap shot at my failed marriage and yes I hold a grudge. I would expect you to feel the same way if the roles were reversed!

Anger issues? Well on an aviation forum where I gave what I still believe to be sound advice to another poster in regards to their marital trials and tribulations you decided that it was fair game to attack me.

I have not not will I forget it. My offer to buy you lunch and talk things out in person still stands.

Back to the topic at hand....

Does one need a checklist to prevent "killer items" in a -2? Complacency can play a part in any accident/incident but trying to reinvent the wheel isn't going to change a damn thing.

Typically a -2 driver fills up the belly tanks themselves or watches a fueler do it. Taking off and blowing a tank is pure piss poor management and no checklist could ever prevent that.

Stay safe and you keep saving the world one key stroke at a time my friend!

Maybe some posters need a longer holiday. Some badly needed R & R.
A much, much longer holiday.

Well, it appears that TPC deleted the first part of the post that you quoted.

Perhaps he felt like me that it is time to move on and that is why he just asked for some info and gave some quite useful info. To which I have replied.

With 3000 hours of DHC-2 time, I bet he could give us some great tips that could prevent an accident.

That is my only interest and has always been here. I have previously posted in this thread the reasoning for what I said but it is easy to forever dig in and never try to move on. Therefore, I am happy to offer an apology in order to move on.

Sorry TPC.

Would love to get some more tips you might have about DHC-2 ops of floatplane flying in general.

[rookiepilot]

My view:

Way, way too late and a dollar short, Pelmet.

What you have done to TPC -- and others -- is so wrong. Very wrong.

I think you'd be happier on another site.

Goodbye.

[pelmet]

My view:

Way, way too late and a dollar short, Pelmet.

What you have done to TPC -- and others -- is so wrong. Very wrong.

I think you'd be happier on another site.

Goodbye.

The only thing I do is react in a similar manner to persons like you who harrass and insult as can be seen on multiple threads who then seem to get angry at being treated as they behave. But I am happy to apologize to move things on.

[challenger_nami]

I think you are doing the right thing @Pelmet,
Hopefully @TPC accepts, so you guys can move on to new beginnings.

Cheers



.

[rookiepilot]

I think you are doing the right thing @Pelmet,
Hopefully @TPC accepts, so you guys can move on to new beginnings.

Cheers

Ok that's enough.

This is a poster who not only viciously attacked a poster's marriage when TPC didn't agree with him -- he repeated trolled me -- claiming repeatedly -- I quote -- "I love to wreck airplanes" -- when he Knew for a fact -- he is the researcher -- it was a mechanical failure.

I openly posted exactly, the details on what happened. This is following a deep personal loss of mine. Most of the community was supportive -- thankfully.

That's the way it should be. Airplanes are important. People are more important.

Enough. I don't need this kind of abusive poster, and neither does TPC. Neither does this community.

This poster just came off a "holiday" --- and right back into it.

Maybe we'd all like to wait until he goes after our marriages too?

Enough.

I've reported this thread --- and the quotes are there for all to see.

Goodbye --

[pelmet]

I think you are doing the right thing @Pelmet,
Hopefully @TPC accepts, so you guys can move on to new beginnings.

Cheers

Ok that's enough.

Enough.

I've reported this thread --- and the quotes are there for all to see.

Goodbye --

I am happy to move on with TPC. In the end, it doesn't matter if I feel he started something for no reason and after having multiple negative experiences I reacted angrily. I suspect that he is mature enough that we can both do the reasonable thing and move on. I am much more interested in hearing some of his great flying experiences instead of arguing. There is no point in endless arguing.

Will we ever be buddies? Probably not........but time to act like adults instead of endless back and forth.

Something that you might want to think about as well as your situation is very similar.

Hopefully, not goodbye but safety related discussion.


Final note for clarity.....

he repeated trolled me -- claiming repeatedly -- I quote -- "I love to wreck airplanes" -- when he Knew for a fact -- he is the researcher -- it was a mechanical failure.

While I do remember being repeatedly trolled by you and responding in kind, I don't remember making the statement "I love to wreck airplanes" that you have in quotes and have attributed to me. Not surprisingly, when I did a search, it could not be found except as words typed by you.

However, in order to move on to safety discussion(the only reason I post here), I am happy to apologize to you as well for any reason you might have in the past, present, or future.

TWO DAYS LATER.

Hmmm....no response. I guess trying to get our two posters to continue this forum in a mature manner was much more than one could ever expect. I am not surprised.

[rookiepilot]

Here's what you can do, Pelmet, if you are sincere about your apology to TPC and myself for your repeated trolling.

You initiate a new thread on the general comments section, apologize to both of us, in detail.

Next, you will share publicly what you learned from your recent suspension from this site.

Maybe it will help you avoid the next one.

[pelmet]

Here's what you can do, Pelmet, if you are sincere about your apology to TPC and myself for your repeated trolling.

You initiate a new thread on the general comments section, apologize to both of us, in detail.

Next, you will share publicly what you learned from your recent suspension from this site.

Maybe it will help you avoid the next one.

I have said what I have to say. You already told me it was way too late. Feel free to change you mind and accept. I doubt you will based on your responses so far, but I would love to be pleasantly surprised and move on to intelligent discussion about safety related subjects. As far as I am concerned, you have been the troll repeatedly but am happy to move on.

Try the mature route.