Paperless Digital Maintenance Tracking program

[photofly]

Maybe it would depend more on how old your PMI is.

I don't think it's a decision made by individual inspectors; I think there's policy in Ottawa, and it's a fairly conservative policy.

[AirFrame]

One other over-riding consideration here, perhaps... I wasn't thinking about Commercial operations here. I was thinking about private owners. I've got an amateur-built myself, that allows much more flexibility, but I still think a private operator could easily maintain a digital maintenance log without resorting to a massive software cost for one of the commercial packages.

[plhought]

Someone mentioned AC earlier.

When I was still there - we were moving to a paperless system for maintenance releases - although it was limited.

From what I hear now scheduled maintenance tasks and packages (A & B checks) are now being assigned and signed for on issued iPads.

Defects found during flight are still thrown in a physical defect log along with reams of carbon paper. They are entered manually in the system after rectification.

Journey Log is still physical.

How it worked for a true paperless release was you would create the snag (Maintenance snags - not ones found by flight crew) and rectify it in the iPad. It prompts you for your unique PIN - which constitutes as your digital signature and the 571.10 release.

If you ever see the technical records operation in YUL it was an eye opener. Literally bags of paper and records being dumped on tables and sorted. Hundreds of bankers boxes going out to a secure site every week.

We are a long ways away from true paperless aircraft records.

[Heliian]

One other over-riding consideration here, perhaps... I wasn't thinking about Commercial operations here. I was thinking about private owners. I've got an amateur-built myself, that allows much more flexibility, but I still think a private operator could easily maintain a digital maintenance log without resorting to a massive software cost for one of the commercial packages.

Why tho? If you're a private operator then you don't have a need to digitize your logs, you'd save very little paper and would spend more in basic digital backup services then an old paper log.

[photofly]

Private operators are subject to the same record-keeping rules as commercial ones. They have less oversight, but if it won’t pass for a commercial operator, it won’t pass for a private one.

[AirFrame]

Why tho? If you're a private operator then you don't have a need to digitize your logs, you'd save very little paper and would spend more in basic digital backup services then an old paper log.

For the same reasons a commercial operator might want to digitize. Having a backup. Not having to carry a paper copy with you. Have you ever seen a paper log for a 30 year old airplane that flies 50 hours a year? A lot of them look like a paperback novel that's been dropped in a bathtub and dried in the sun. I keep a paper copy, but I also keep a digital copy. The digital copy flies "with" me. The paper one lives in my heated home office.

Spending for basic backup services? Nonsense. OneDrive, Google Drive, Dropbox, Github, etc. all provide free online syncable storage.

[photofly]

You don't have to (and arguably shouldn't) carry maintenance logs with you at all, ever. You do have to carry the Journey Log (one volume) though. Scans of paper records are great online backups.

Which brings up an interesting issue: when you want to sell your plane, and you explain that the maintenance records are all online on some system with which the purchaser isn't interested to continue, or doesn't trust, what then?

[Heliian]

For the same reasons a commercial operator might want to digitize. Having a backup. Not having to carry a paper copy with you. Have you ever seen a paper log for a 30 year old airplane that flies 50 hours a year? A lot of them look like a paperback novel that's been dropped in a bathtub and dried in the sun. I keep a paper copy, but I also keep a digital copy. The digital copy flies "with" me. The paper one lives in my heated home office.

Spending for basic backup services? Nonsense. OneDrive, Google Drive, Dropbox, Github, etc. all provide free online syncable storage.

A journey log doesn't need to be a 30 year old book. You can buy or make a new one and throw the old ones in storage. Not a huge cost but involves storing a box.

I have yet to see a system with free cloud storage be approved. We are using dedicated servers and offline backups are produced on a schedule.

[AirFrame]

You don't have to (and arguably shouldn't) carry maintenance logs with you at all, ever. You do have to carry the Journey Log (one volume) though. Scans of paper records are great online backups.

I use a combined Journey/Maintenance log, so if one comes along, they both do.

Which brings up an interesting issue: when you want to sell your plane, and you explain that the maintenance records are all online on some system with which the purchaser isn't interested to continue, or doesn't trust, what then?

Well, the easy answer is to print a hardcopy, start a paper log from then on, and abandon or delete the electronic copy. As for trusting it, there's no reason to assume a paper log will be any less falsified than an electronic one. It'll come down to, do you trust the person you're buying from?

[photofly]

You don't have to (and arguably shouldn't) carry maintenance logs with you at all, ever. You do have to carry the Journey Log (one volume) though. Scans of paper records are great online backups.

I use a combined Journey/Maintenance log, so if one comes along, they both do.

That's not a lawful way of keeping technical records for an aircraft with a standard certificate of airworthiness. This thread isn't really about OM, experimental or amateur-built aircraft.

[Bede]

Here's one that I used for an airplane I used to own.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

I used conditional formatting to warn me once maintenance was coming due (yellow) and red if overdue. All you had to do was update the TTSN every day and when maintenance was completed.

I used the same spreadsheet (with added tasks) as a maintenance tracker when I was PRM at an FTU years ago when Google Drive was somewhat new. TC approved. We gave them the link and they could track us without leaving the comfort of their desks. No surprise inspections for us.

[AirFrame]

That's not a lawful way of keeping technical records for an aircraft with a standard certificate of airworthiness. This thread isn't really about OM, experimental or amateur-built aircraft.

No? I pointed out a while back that I was in the Amateur-Built camp. I didn't think it mattered, doesn't the digital log section of the CARs apply to Amateur-Built as well? The fact that we can combine our Journey and Maintenance logs is a secondary issue.

[photofly]

That's not a lawful way of keeping technical records for an aircraft with a standard certificate of airworthiness. This thread isn't really about OM, experimental or amateur-built aircraft.

No? I pointed out a while back that I was in the Amateur-Built camp. I didn't think it mattered, doesn't the digital log section of the CARs apply to Amateur-Built as well? The fact that we can combine our Journey and Maintenance logs is a secondary issue.

Amateur-built aircraft only need a Journey Log. Aircraft with a normal CofA need a Journey log and "separate technical record for the airframe, each installed engine and each variable-pitch propeller;" It's not that your maintenance logs are combined; you are simply excused from three quarters of the records that owners of a certified aircraft have to keep.

The practical difference, and the position from which I was (and am) asking, is for commercial operators, I specifically wanted to hear from a commercial operator who (quite clearly, with the approval of TC) was keeping an electronic JL. The OP, likewise. I respect your opinions on the subject but they're not backed by the experiences of someone whose records are inspected by TC on a regular basis.