More WJ layoffs

[Zaibatsu]

Captains at WS made about 70K at the start. Oh and a little thing called stock options.

I know that it’s really easy to say that with the benefit of hindsight, but WJ could have very easily been any number of failed Canadian airlines.

Sure you sell the stock. But what if it falls before you sell? What if the company goes bankrupt? How is your compensation now?

What would you think of compensation by Flair or Porter stock? Or any airline stock right now?

No. Cash is king. Even per diems count for more than hopes and dreams until you cash out and cash in.

You’re just drawing an arbitrary line in the sand to exclude yourself and forgetting you used to pull snot rags out of seat backs for free not so very long ago.

[jjj]

Captains at WS made about 70K at the start. Oh and a little thing called stock options.

I know that it’s really easy to say that with the benefit of hindsight, but WJ could have very easily been any number of failed Canadian airlines.

Sure you sell the stock. But what if it falls before you sell? What if the company goes bankrupt? How is your compensation now?

What would you think of compensation by Flair or Porter stock? Or any airline stock right now?

No. Cash is king. Even per diems count for more than hopes and dreams until you cash out and cash in.

You’re just drawing an arbitrary line in the sand to exclude yourself and forgetting you used to pull snot rags out of seat backs for free not so very long ago.

Flair and Porter are fundamentally different. Porter - to my knowledge - never did go ahead with an IPO. Hmmm wonder why. Flair is also at best a copy cat - whereas WestJet was an industry disruptor. Remember the days when to get a deal on a flight it had to be return fair with a Saturday stay over. Also remember when places like Kelowna and Abbotsford were secondary airports. Hmmmm - who changed all that.

Cash certainly is king. These days we get fixed cash every year in lieu of options. Less risk and it’s steady.

There was a time when I groomed. Yep. That is years behind me. Old news.

The best cash in Canada is AC. Next is WestJet. After those two, the wages get smaller and smaller as you go down the list. We all pursue different paths for different reasons. Many spend an entire career at places like Jazz and have happy/rewarding lives.

I have some friends that fly corporate on some pretty fancy machines. They also vacuum and toss cookies. Whatever - it’s work. The difference is - I don’t admonish anyone for how they put in an honest days work.

WS has been a good ride. Lots of contract BS and I’ve never known a time in aviation when there wasn’t some kind of BS going on. I work with some stellar people and most days are quite pleasant.

I draw no arbitrary lines. I dismantle incorrect views on what WS WAWCON is. Long after the gamble for options paid out - WS has been a very lucrative place to work for most (pandemic aside.)

So have a nice day Zaibatsu.

[newlygrounded]

No need for the doom and gloom, things will turn around and hiring will resume eventually. It may take a few years for us to reach that point but there’s no reason to believe we won’t return to 2019 staffing levels eventually for the majority of carriers. Then there’s companies that have expanded, adding more jobs to the market down the road.

How do you feel about the permanent concessions a lot of people have made in the industry? It's also possible that a conservative government would decimate the industry as well (less so for WS since they are mostly domestic)

Yeah , the Liberal government has really had the back of the Canadian Air Carriers, NOT !

When did I say the libs were doing a good job of it? I'm pointing out the cons will give us an even worse time

[DouglasPenner]

Mail Justin Trudeau

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/c ... -1.5926728

At
Office of the Prime Minister
80 Wellington Street
Ottawa, ON K1A 0A2

With the writing on the back #SaveCanadianAviation

Tell your friends

Doug

[tsgas]

How do you feel about the permanent concessions a lot of people have made in the industry? It's also possible that a conservative government would decimate the industry as well (less so for WS since they are mostly domestic)

Yeah , the Liberal government has really had the back of the Canadian Air Carriers, NOT !

When did I say the libs were doing a good job of it? I'm pointing out the cons will give us an even worse time

Sure . Your boy Trudy is a real winner.

[Mach1]

I'm pointing out the cons will give us an even worse time

Based on what?

[goldeneagle]

I'm pointing out the cons will give us an even worse time

Based on what?

Try looking at the platform from the last election.

https://cpcassets.conservative.ca/wp-co ... 4e7480.pdf

From that document
========
52. Increasing Airline Choice for CanadiansIn close partnership with provincial/territorial governments, airport authorities across the country, and industry partners, the Conservative Party will both introduce & actively promote a new framework for increased domestic & foreign airline competition in Canada, including experimentation with cabotage on a trial basis on select routes.
========

Not sure how allowing American airlines to go point to point within Canada will be good for any airline employees here....

[newlygrounded]

Yeah , the Liberal government has really had the back of the Canadian Air Carriers, NOT !

When did I say the libs were doing a good job of it? I'm pointing out the cons will give us an even worse time

Sure . Your boy Trudy is a real winner.

I'll give you the floor, what would have o'toole do to help us? He's outright said he'll open up cabotage, and we'd likely not even have cews. I know you have some weird obsession with our PM but I look at everyone objectively.

[throwaway123]

When did I say the libs were doing a good job of it? I'm pointing out the cons will give us an even worse time

Sure . Your boy Trudy is a real winner.

I'll give you the floor, what would have o'toole do to help us? He's outright said he'll open up cabotage, and we'd likely not even have cews. I know you have some weird obsession with our PM but I look at everyone objectively.

Just because someone thinks Trudeau is a terrible leader, doesn't mean they're a Conservative.

I've voted Liberal since I could vote, and if Trudeau is the leader of the Liberals in the next election I won't.

[mbav8r]

Sure . Your boy Trudy is a real winner.

I'll give you the floor, what would have o'toole do to help us? He's outright said he'll open up cabotage, and we'd likely not even have cews. I know you have some weird obsession with our PM but I look at everyone objectively.

Just because someone thinks Trudeau is a terrible leader, doesn't mean they're a Conservative.

I've voted Liberal since I could vote, and if Trudeau is the leader of the Liberals in the next election I won't.

And I’m a conservative voter who is unsure what to think about O’Toole, however at this point I would rather the Devil I don’t know versus the Devil we’ve endured for the last while.
I wish I had a good alternative to be honest, if Trudeau wasn’t such a blatantly crooked shyster I might have considered voting liberal but he needs to go!

[throwaway123]

Unless the Liberals change leadership I'm with you. I hate voting to "remove" someone but what other choice do we have?

Ideall a CPC minority government would be best IMO. Keep everyone honest.

Still waiting for that referendum on prop representation which would result in more coalition governments. Good for all.

[newlygrounded]

Sure . Your boy Trudy is a real winner.

I'll give you the floor, what would have o'toole do to help us? He's outright said he'll open up cabotage, and we'd likely not even have cews. I know you have some weird obsession with our PM but I look at everyone objectively.

Just because someone thinks Trudeau is a terrible leader, doesn't mean they're a Conservative.

I've voted Liberal since I could vote, and if Trudeau is the leader of the Liberals in the next election I won't.

I see what your saying but he praised trumps financial "success" in the past, is the peoples party still a thing here?

[ALPApolicy]

Honestly! It’s almost impossible to keep an AvCanada topic on course...

I don’t see it.

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

Unless the Liberals change leadership I'm with you. I hate voting to "remove" someone but what other choice do we have?

Ideall a CPC minority government would be best IMO. Keep everyone honest.

Still waiting for that referendum on prop representation which would result in more coalition governments. Good for all.

I hoped for a conservative minority with the main opposition being NDP for the Ontario provincial election.

I forgot to look for competent leaders in both of those elected parties.

[Mach1]

Try looking at the platform from the last election.

https://cpcassets.conservative.ca/wp-co ... 4e7480.pdf

From that document
========
52. Increasing Airline Choice for CanadiansIn close partnership with provincial/territorial governments, airport authorities across the country, and industry partners, the Conservative Party will both introduce & actively promote a new framework for increased domestic & foreign airline competition in Canada, including experimentation with cabotage on a trial basis on select routes.
========

Not sure how allowing American airlines to go point to point within Canada will be good for any airline employees here....

I don't have a problem with that. If we are allowed to compete head to head with foreign airlines (IE: they can fly in our country if we can fly in theirs) then bring it on. With the Canadian Pesos, we'll be a difficult force to compete with.

Have you looked at the polices already enacted by the Liberals? Have you listed to what they want to do with the "Great Reset"? That's not the country I grew up in and it's not one in which I wish to live. Do you think they'll listen to my concerns or just label me with names to shut me up and dismiss my views without examining them to see if there is merit to my concerns? I know the answer to that last one... and it's not a positive answer.

[goldeneagle]

I don't have a problem with that. If we are allowed to compete head to head with foreign airlines (IE: they can fly in our country if we can fly in theirs) then bring it on. With the Canadian Pesos, we'll be a difficult force to compete with.

The US is the obvious market, right next door. If there was any appetite there for allowing cabotage, then you would see cruise ships lining up in Seattle this summer, headed on the Alaska cruise. It's not happening. Without the ability to make the stop in Canada, the Alaska bound cruise ships out of Seattle are not running this upcoming summer. Not leaving out of Vancouver, and not leaving out of Seattle. It's a significant hit to the economy in BC, and a much much larger hit to that in Alaska.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/colby- ... icas-fault

USA is quite prepared to let the economy of Alaska crumble to protect the cabotage laws. If they wont make the exception for Alaska bound cruise ships when Canadian ports are closed to those boats, they sure aren't going to make an exception for Air Canada flights going JFK->LAX.

If there was any appetite for airline cabotage, it would have been included in a revised nafta recently done.

You need to go back and re-read that conservative platform document. They want to buy votes by promising cheaper air fares with 'experiments' in cabotage within Canada, but there will be no reciprocity involved.

[Freeport_Flyer]

Honestly! It’s almost impossible to keep an AvCanada topic on course...

I don’t see it.

There are other threads to debate the effects of political platforms on Canadian aviation as well as geo-politics; and while these have macro effects on the industry...

Any news on "More WJ layoffs"??? The Globe and Mail posted some numbers that seem like if pilots bump into Encore there will be no Encore pilots left! Also a pretty big training "bill" to train folks who have never flown a Q. I expect ALPA continues to negotiate to mitigate...

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

Honestly! It’s almost impossible to keep an AvCanada topic on course...

I don’t see it.

There are other threads to debate the effects of political platforms on Canadian aviation as well as geo-politics; and while these have macro effects on the industry...

Any news on "More WJ layoffs"??? The Globe and Mail posted some numbers that seem like if pilots bump into Encore there will be no Encore pilots left! Also a pretty big training "bill" to train folks who have never flown a Q. I expect ALPA continues to negotiate to mitigate...

In the unlikely scenario that layoff mitigations aren't secured, the 224 pilots who bump down will be paid as Encore pilots but likely not get trained on the Q.

If there are layoffs at Encore (direct result of bumpdown), it will be minimal (10-15 at most).

[Maxpwr]

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[Yycjetdriver]

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A decision has been reached. Plenty of information on it in the MEC’s email and the mainline alpa forums.

[stabilizer]

A decision has been reached, but a deadline has not. A lot can happen in three weeks.

[Yycjetdriver]

A decision has been reached, but a deadline has not. A lot can happen in three weeks.

Yes, I was just keeping it vague in order to avoid the opinions and rants from people with no skin in the game.

[mbav8r]

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[tsgas]

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[mbav8r]

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I was about to say something that would start an argument and changed my mind, this site definitely has gone downhill and I am going to try not to be part of the problem, try.