Air Canada Revises the Terms of its Capacity Purchase Agreement with Chorus Aviation for Regional Flying

[rudder]

What would be the date of hire approximately on the last guy before the layoff list?

Junior active Jazz pilot DOH August 2017

Approximately 585 pilots ‘inactive’/CEWS (effectively on involuntary lay-off)

[Arnie Pye]

IIRC, when Canadian and Air Canada merged, fences went up. They lasted a few years while things were slowly integrated. Even though they brought over the same types of planes, initially the Canadian guys put on an air Canada uniform and did the same job as they did before in the same airplanes with the same bidding system and the same crews. I think it took a few years before they integrated everything slowly. First pay scales. Then seniority, then bidding systems, then eventually everyone was allowed to fly together.

Jazz's contract is due in 2025. Negotiations will start earlier than that. That's just over 3.5 years from now. By then the industry will be in recovery and things will be better. Put a fence up for a couple of years and no one is greatly put out by their DOH. Operate as sky with Jazz on the side of the planes for a couple of years. By the time 2024 rolls around, things will be better and you can negotiate that next contract in better times with the fences removed.

[throwaway123]

IIRC, when Canadian and Air Canada merged, fences went up. They lasted a few years while things were slowly integrated. Even though they brought over the same types of planes, initially the Canadian guys put on an air Canada uniform and did the same job as they did before in the same airplanes with the same bidding system and the same crews. I think it took a few years before they integrated everything slowly. First pay scales. Then seniority, then bidding systems, then eventually everyone was allowed to fly together.

Jazz's contract is due in 2025. Negotiations will start earlier than that. That's just over 3.5 years from now. By then the industry will be in recovery and things will be better. Put a fence up for a couple of years and no one is greatly put out by their DOH. Operate as sky with Jazz on the side of the planes for a couple of years. By the time 2024 rolls around, things will be better and you can negotiate that next contract in better times with the fences removed.

That's not possible. This isn't a merger. It's the same as when GGN shut down, contract pulled and planes moved to Jazz. The whole point of SKR being shut down is to save money and consolidate.

Also Jazz pilots are losing 19 classics. Why would they agree to fences on planes that are taking their work? I know I wouldn't.

[47north]

It's a bit different as the Georgian pilots never brought any aircraft over with them. Bringing the DH3 fleet removal into the equation just muddies the water.

That's not correct. We received a net 5 CRJ200s from AGN when all said and done.

Yes, I forgot about those CRJ200's. Were those 5 originally in the Jazz fleet prior to going to Georgian?

Yes they were originally Jazz aircraft.

[dhc#]

Was it mentioned in any press release, that SR Flt crew/FA's/Maint staff were coming over to Jazz as part of the deal ? Or is everyone assuming so, maybe its just the 25 jets and the routes...

[YVR_pushpull12]

Was it mentioned in any press release, that SR Flt crew/FA's/Maint staff were coming over to Jazz as part of the deal ? Or is everyone assuming so, maybe its just the 25 jets and the routes...

All Sky pilots will be going to Jazz and all flight attendants will be offered an interview when hiring resumes. No mechanics or office workers will be transferred to Jazz. This is from RP's mouth along with SKV union emails in connection with Jazz MEC talks.

per RP email:

All of our pilots, including those on layoff, will be transferred to Jazz and will be governed by the terms of Jazz’s collective agreement, subject to agreement between Jazz and ALPA. Jazz has also indicated that they will ensure that our flight attendants receive an interview when hiring resumes; however, I expect that a large number of you, along with the rest of us, will lose our jobs. We do have indications however that there may be a few individual positions that may become available at Jazz after April 1.

from the union

Yesterday evening, the SKV MEC met with the JAZ MEC Executive Officers via Zoom to introduce ourselves in our new roles on the SKV MEC and prepare ourselves for the road ahead.

There is a lot of uncertainty in this process; however, the JAZ MEC reassures us that all Pilots will be treated fairly.

[Splash]

IIRC, when Canadian and Air Canada merged, fences went up. They lasted a few years while things were slowly integrated. Even though they brought over the same types of planes, initially the Canadian guys put on an air Canada uniform and did the same job as they did before in the same airplanes with the same bidding system and the same crews. I think it took a few years before they integrated everything slowly. First pay scales. Then seniority, then bidding systems, then eventually everyone was allowed to fly together.

Jazz's contract is due in 2025. Negotiations will start earlier than that. That's just over 3.5 years from now. By then the industry will be in recovery and things will be better. Put a fence up for a couple of years and no one is greatly put out by their DOH. Operate as sky with Jazz on the side of the planes for a couple of years. By the time 2024 rolls around, things will be better and you can negotiate that next contract in better times with the fences removed.

Also Jazz pilots are losing 19 classics. Why would they agree to fences on planes that are taking their work? I know I wouldn't.

I don't think the DH3 and E75 are comparable, I do however see the association you're trying to make.

[FL101]

DOH list merger, no additional layoffs for any active duty pilots.

All sky pilots become jazz pilots, good luck to the sky FAs, and we pretend like Sky never existed.

[YVR_pushpull12]

Do any Jazz pilots have any tips for SKV pilots making the transition. Whats training/training department like. Where do you go for the Q400 training or the RJ training. Whats the RRSP plan like. Its going to be a surreal experience for everyone involved. I hope jazz pilots don't hold animosity towards sky pilot. This was out of both pilot groups control sadly. Heres to hoping the bond between the pilot groups get off on the right foot.

I am hopeful.

[throwaway123]

IIRC, when Canadian and Air Canada merged, fences went up. They lasted a few years while things were slowly integrated. Even though they brought over the same types of planes, initially the Canadian guys put on an air Canada uniform and did the same job as they did before in the same airplanes with the same bidding system and the same crews. I think it took a few years before they integrated everything slowly. First pay scales. Then seniority, then bidding systems, then eventually everyone was allowed to fly together.

Jazz's contract is due in 2025. Negotiations will start earlier than that. That's just over 3.5 years from now. By then the industry will be in recovery and things will be better. Put a fence up for a couple of years and no one is greatly put out by their DOH. Operate as sky with Jazz on the side of the planes for a couple of years. By the time 2024 rolls around, things will be better and you can negotiate that next contract in better times with the fences removed.

Also Jazz pilots are losing 19 classics. Why would they agree to fences on planes that are taking their work? I know I wouldn't.

I don't think the DH3 and E75 are comparable, I do however see the association you're trying to make.

A plane with two seats in the front is a plane with two seats in the front. Jazz has status pay, so yes it is comparable IMO.

[throwaway123]

Do any Jazz pilots have any tips for SKV pilots making the transition. Whats training/training department like. Where do you go for the Q400 training or the RJ training. Whats the RRSP plan like. Its going to be a surreal experience for everyone involved. I hope jazz pilots don't hold animosity towards sky pilot. This was out of both pilot groups control sadly. Heres to hoping the bond between the pilot groups get off on the right foot.

I am hopeful.

Training is awesome. Nothing to say other than work hard and you'll be just fine.

Q400 training is in YVR or YYZ at the AC training facilities or Downsview at Flight Safety. Pension is decent, it's through Sunlife and a standard DC pension plan. Pretty high fees which is the only downside but returns were always around 8% or higher when I was there.

[800man]

I'm assuming Jazz hasn't had E175's on their OC before. I wonder if Sky will offer up their certs, or Jazz will have to develop their Embraer program. That being said, AC had them, so easy enough to reword them.

I'm curious to see how, or if, they get utilized. I'd bet AC will want to unload before the C checks, or sell them to Jazz/someone else altogether. Going to be many years before SKV's wheelhouse of US/commuter flights comes back up to 2019 levels and AC will probably want to unload some assets.

[CanadianPilotQc]

What is the latest news on this? Heard some JAZ MEC reps we’re pushing for DOH for active pilots at sky while the layoff sky pilots BOTL. if that even makes sense.

[Longtimer]

Re Jazz, here is what they currently have on their licence.

https://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur/2/ ... id=&cttxt=

[800man]

Re Jazz, here is what they currently have on their licence.

https://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur/2/ ... id=&cttxt=

Thanks forgot about checking there, looks like they'd be starting a fresh program then... if they decide to use them at all. Certainly no rush to set it up right now, I'll be curious to see when capacity starts to crawls back what they'll be doing with them.

[TrustinThrust]

Sky had 30 pilots about to be laid off March 2, and another 5-10 expecting layoff notices to come out mid-month. They rescinded those 30 layoffs, cancelled any planned downgrades and put those 30 pilots on a reserve block for March. Any guesses as to why they did this? I'd like imagine it was out of the goodness of their hearts, but something tells me otherwise. 104 pilots are now "Active" at Sky. There must be a good reason why.

[scrat1]

Sky had 30 pilots about to be laid off March 2, and another 5-10 expecting layoff notices to come out mid-month. They rescinded those 30 layoffs, cancelled any planned downgrades and put those 30 pilots on a reserve block for March. Any guesses as to why they did this? I'd like imagine it was out of the goodness of their hearts, but something tells me otherwise. 104 pilots are now "Active" at Sky. There must be a good reason why.

What would the seniority DOH of the most junior active pilot out of 104 at SR BE as of now?

[TrustinThrust]

Sky had 30 pilots about to be laid off March 2, and another 5-10 expecting layoff notices to come out mid-month. They rescinded those 30 layoffs, cancelled any planned downgrades and put those 30 pilots on a reserve block for March. Any guesses as to why they did this? I'd like imagine it was out of the goodness of their hearts, but something tells me otherwise. 104 pilots are now "Active" at Sky. There must be a good reason why.

What would the seniority DOH of the most junior active pilot out of 104 at SR BE as of now?

Dec 2017

[dhc#]

Sky had 30 pilots about to be laid off March 2, and another 5-10 expecting layoff notices to come out mid-month. They rescinded those 30 layoffs, cancelled any planned downgrades and put those 30 pilots on a reserve block for March. Any guesses as to why they did this? I'd like imagine it was out of the goodness of their hearts, but something tells me otherwise. 104 pilots are now "Active" at Sky. There must be a good reason why.

Is the tail about to wag the dog ?

[rudder]

104 pilots is enough to staff 10 aircraft.

10 E175’s are leased. Monthly payments owing. 15 are owned by AC. No monthly payments.

Perhaps this has something to do with the plan for the E175’s for summer 2021.

[TrustinThrust]

Sky had 30 pilots about to be laid off March 2, and another 5-10 expecting layoff notices to come out mid-month. They rescinded those 30 layoffs, cancelled any planned downgrades and put those 30 pilots on a reserve block for March. Any guesses as to why they did this? I'd like imagine it was out of the goodness of their hearts, but something tells me otherwise. 104 pilots are now "Active" at Sky. There must be a good reason why.

Is the tail about to wag the dog ?

You tell me. For a company about to cease existence, and one that immediately terminated all remaining non-active FA's, I'm scratching my head at the reasoning behind bringing back 30+ pilots onto the payroll. Maybe this deal was in the bag well before the announcement, with the agreed upon active pilot list being in the 100+ range as opposed to the pre-announcement Sky March list of 60ish pilots.

[throwaway123]

What is the latest news on this? Heard some JAZ MEC reps we’re pushing for DOH for active pilots at sky while the layoff sky pilots BOTL. if that even makes sense.

A solution could be to merge active pilots and anyone laid off from SKR can get their DOH but will be recalled after all laid off Jazz pilots.

[dhc#]

Wondering where do those pilots who had their Jazz start dates and inital ground schools "Indefinitely Postponed" by the company, when the pandemic hit last March, all fit in to this ?

[cloudskimmer]

Will the inactive Jazz pilots be able to vote on the agreement?

[throwaway123]

Most likely. They are still on payroll and active ALPA members.