More WJ layoffs

[Yycjetdriver]

.

I am going to try not to be part of the problem, try.

I think you’re a little late for that.

[mbav8r]

I am going to try not to be part of the problem, try.

I think you’re a little late for that.

I see you’ve chosen to continue to be part of the problem.
Exhibit A

Good thing you guys didn’t sign a super long collect agreement with concessions in order to stay competitive against sky/Georgian .... oh wait

Good luck with your negotiations, I hope it turns out that you get what you deserve.

[Yycjetdriver]

I am going to try not to be part of the problem, try.

I think you’re a little late for that.

I see you’ve chosen to continue to be part of the problem.
Exhibit A

Good thing you guys didn’t sign a super long collect agreement with concessions in order to stay competitive against sky/Georgian .... oh wait

Good luck with your negotiations, I hope it turns out that you get what you deserve.

Thanks, appreciate it!

[Mach1]

You need to go back and re-read that conservative platform document.

No, I don't. I understand that without quid pro quo, this is not an actual issue. No government is going to go there. Okay, not true... the current Liberal government has done just this by telling Canadian airlines they can't fly to certain destinations but you can board any foreign carrier and go to those same locations if you like.... effectively handing all our business to foreign carriers and bypassing the cabotage discussion in a public policy debate.

Perhaps you need to stop living in fear of what might be and start looking objectively at the policies, the corruption and the incompetence of your guy and start wondering if there might be better out there. Pick a party, there's 3 alternatives for you to vote for plus independents. Or are you that indoctrinated by the WE youth core?

I hope it is going to be a short furlough and not just the start of another in a series of what might come as a result of government policy rather than bad business practices.

[Longtimer]

Alaska Senators Introduce New Legislation to Bypass Canada’s Cruise Ship Ban
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/lifestyle/tra ... d=msedgdhp

[TheStig]

Bit of a misleading title, it's more of a work-around (or fix) to outdated shipping laws. Like most people, I don't have a good grasp of maritime laws, but it seems like COVID boarder closures and restrictions are wrecking havoc on long established workarounds. Here's an interesting Nation Post commentary from last week which describes the issues.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/colby- ... icas-fault

[GRK2]

Cruise ship issues...what, if anything, does this have to do with the issues our brothers and sisters face at WS?

[Freeport_Flyer]

Cruise ship issues...what, if anything, does this have to do with the issues our brothers and sisters face at WS?

Clearly trolling to get a reaction. Hopefully there will be some news on mitigation efforts in the coming days / weeks. I think it'll be last minute for sure.

[mbav8r]

Cruise ship issues...what, if anything, does this have to do with the issues our brothers and sisters face at WS?

Clearly trolling to get a reaction. Hopefully there will be some news on mitigation efforts in the coming days / weeks. I think it'll be last minute for sure.

Care to share the initial details of what you are trying to mitigate?

[rudder]

Clearly trolling to get a reaction. Hopefully there will be some news on mitigation efforts in the coming days / weeks. I think it'll be last minute for sure.

Care to share the initial details of what you are trying to mitigate?

From another public web board -

“ Letter to the pilots from WJ MEC and the Company to the pilot group on Friday March 8th have stated that the Company made its final offer on Wednesday, March 3rd and the MEC rejected it on Friday March 5th. DFO and Ed Sims sent out messages later in the day that the 415 layoff notices issued on March 1st, effective April 1st will not be retracted.”

[Dias]

That's got to be around half of WestJet pilots laid off now isn't it? How many did they have going into this? Seems silly to do it now after keeping them on this long. Hopefully they're bluffing but I don't know. They had to think how weak they would look if they rescind the layoff notices with nothing gained in terms of negotiations.

[tsgas]

Clearly trolling to get a reaction. Hopefully there will be some news on mitigation efforts in the coming days / weeks. I think it'll be last minute for sure.

Care to share the initial details of what you are trying to mitigate?

From another public web board -

“ Letter to the pilots from WJ MEC and the Company to the pilot group on Friday March 8th have stated that the Company made its final offer on Wednesday, March 3rd and the MEC rejected it on Friday March 5th. DFO and Ed Sims sent out messages later in the day that the 415 layoff notices issued on March 1st, effective April 1st will not be retracted.”

There is something not Kosher about this "letter". There is no Friday March 8th this year. So what's the story ?

[altiplano]

Care to share the initial details of what you are trying to mitigate?

From another public web board -

“ Letter to the pilots from WJ MEC and the Company to the pilot group on Friday March 8th have stated that the Company made its final offer on Wednesday, March 3rd and the MEC rejected it on Friday March 5th. DFO and Ed Sims sent out messages later in the day that the 415 layoff notices issued on March 1st, effective April 1st will not be retracted.”

There is something not Kosher about this "letter". There is no Friday March 5th this year. So what's the story ?

Match 5th was last Friday.

[W5]

WestJet canceled 15 MAX orders

https://www.flightglobal.com/airframers ... LifyCKQoh0

[tsgas]

From another public web board -

“ Letter to the pilots from WJ MEC and the Company to the pilot group on Friday March 8th have stated that the Company made its final offer on Wednesday, March 3rd and the MEC rejected it on Friday March 5th. DFO and Ed Sims sent out messages later in the day that the 415 layoff notices issued on March 1st, effective April 1st will not be retracted.”

There is something not Kosher about this "letter". There is no Friday March 5th this year. So what's the story ?

Match 5th was last Friday.

True my mistake. The letter states "March 8".

[Blue42]

There is something not Kosher about this "letter". There is no Friday March 5th this year. So what's the story ?

Match 5th was last Friday.

True my mistake. The letter states "March 8".

There was no “letter”, there were emails from the MEC, DFO and Ed talking about the negotiations and no agreement. All it said was they were going ahead with layoffs, no comment that they would not be retracted.

[CaptainHaddock]

WestJet canceled 15 MAX orders

https://www.flightglobal.com/airframers ... LifyCKQoh0

So there are 15 painted in WJ colours, with 15 cancelled that leaves 10 more to deliver. Of the roughly 120 ng’s WJ has it will be interesting to see how many (if any) go back to the lessors now.

[Blue42]

WestJet canceled 15 MAX orders

https://www.flightglobal.com/airframers ... LifyCKQoh0

So there are 15 painted in WJ colours, with 15 cancelled that leaves 10 more to deliver. Of the roughly 120 ng’s WJ has it will be interesting to see how many (if any) go back to the lessors now.

The MAX order was for 22 MAX7, 23 MAX8 and 12 MAX10s. 14 -8s are in the fleet now, so 9 more -8s and 12 -10s. I’m guessing the 15 canceled are -7s with the remaining 7 being converted to -8s. So 16 -8s and 12 -10s to be delivered.

[WestJet Puke]

WestJet canceled 15 MAX orders

https://www.flightglobal.com/airframers ... LifyCKQoh0

So there are 15 painted in WJ colours, with 15 cancelled that leaves 10 more to deliver. Of the roughly 120 ng’s WJ has it will be interesting to see how many (if any) go back to the lessors now.

The MAX order was for 22 MAX7, 23 MAX8 and 12 MAX10s. 14 -8s are in the fleet now, so 9 more -8s and 12 -10s. I’m guessing the 15 canceled are -7s with the remaining 7 being converted to -8s. So 16 -8s and 12 -10s to be delivered.

As much as I don't like to see our airplane orders being canceled, if it is the -7s, I could agree with. I somehow have the suspicions that the -7 will end up as the lemon of the family, similar to how only a handful of airlines ordered the 737-600. Although the -7's range is impressive, there just aren't enough seats.

[Blue42]

So there are 15 painted in WJ colours, with 15 cancelled that leaves 10 more to deliver. Of the roughly 120 ng’s WJ has it will be interesting to see how many (if any) go back to the lessors now.

The MAX order was for 22 MAX7, 23 MAX8 and 12 MAX10s. 14 -8s are in the fleet now, so 9 more -8s and 12 -10s. I’m guessing the 15 canceled are -7s with the remaining 7 being converted to -8s. So 16 -8s and 12 -10s to be delivered.

As much as I don't like to see our airplane orders being canceled, if it is the -7s, I could agree with. I somehow have the suspicions that the -7 will end up as the lemon of the family, similar to how only a handful of airlines ordered the 737-600. Although the -7's range is impressive, there just aren't enough seats.

I agree with the 600 comparison but if the rumored Southwest order goes through that’ll be a huge boost for the MAX7 program. My understanding is the MAX8 performance has been far better then any of the predictions and can do anything the 7 was planned for.

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

The 350 nautical mile gain at the price of losing 40 seats makes the MAX7 a dud.

You're paying 33% of your capacity for an increase of 8% of range.

[hurtin'albertan]

Back to the topic:

From the union update this morning there is no deal. PIlots won't see or vote on the last company offer.

415 layoffs and the reduction bid will go ahead Apr 1.

[mbav8r]

Back to the topic:

From the union update this morning there is no deal. PIlots won't see or vote on the last company offer.

415 layoffs and the reduction bid will go ahead Apr 1.

Truly sorry to hear that!
Does the reduction bid include bumping to Encore still?
Also, how many pilots will remain at both?
I’m afraid without some industry support this will not be the last shoe to drop, another 14 billion just south of us, here just more empty promises. I hope the industry is able to fully recover despite Trudeau!

[stabilizer]

Back to the topic:

From the union update this morning there is no deal. PIlots won't see or vote on the last company offer.

415 layoffs and the reduction bid will go ahead Apr 1.

This is posturing. Pure and simple. There are still over 2 weeks remaining in the current MOA. The company's "final" offer has turned into a "final final" offer, which very may well turn into a "final final final final final" offer before this is all said and done.

On April 1st, without a deal, you can confirm 415 layoffs. Till then, it's purely negotiation. And this is part of the negotiation on both sides. Posturing in the media, through emails, social media, etc. Expect it to continue for the next 2 weeks.

The company needs another MOA from the pilots, far more than the pilot group (as a whole).

[throwaway123]

April 1st is a long ways away. A lot can change, including government support, possible lifting of restrictions, more vaccinations etc.

Posturing is correct.

Kudos to the WJ MEC for standing up to their company, I wish ACPA would do the same from time to time. For example the Cargo MOA should have never made it to a membership vote. As soon as that happened, I knew it was game over. We have a weak pilot group in this country and the WJ MEC was smart enough to realize they needed to be the brick wall between the membership voting on this MOA extension and say no at the MEC level.