Save Our Country & Our Industry

[Rockie]

This goes way beyond mere stupidity. Trump and Bosonaro both belong in prison for the rest of their miserable lives for negligence causing death and dereliction of duty.

[montado]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/co ... r-BB1exZpt

More fake news ?

Definitely not fake news,

But a couple points... Brazil is under lockdown measures, looks like that’s not really working out. And something we should have done all along is something like this photo below:

B0BF74DD-600C-489E-8E66-68557C334993.jpeg (1.25 MiB) Viewed 2453 times

Notice how they created a centre specific for covid patients. We should have been doing this all along.

People here are not denying covids existence. The argument is that government policies have been more damaging, and governments are thinking through this very one dimensional. The “experts” have one goal, and that is to stop the spread of covid. People need to figure out how to live with covid. The media sway always makes things out to seem worse than they really are. Brazil is not experiencing a 10 percent death rate. Young healthy people aren’t all of a sudden dying in Brazil. So context matters.

[Ruddervator]

People here are not denying covids existence.

Let's just call out the game here. It's grievance politics. You can see it all over this thread. Here's how the game goes:

1) Minimize or discredit others. In this case, the belief that the cases and deaths are overblown. Anyone who believes the government is a fearmonger.

2) Proclaim your grievance as more deserving of attention. In this case: look at all these businesses failing! How many people who have lost their livelihoods. The government is inept because they are not specifically helping me in the way I want to be helped. "I am the real victim here!"

Any media that supports the government's message is "fake news". Only Postmedia and other right-wing media outlets are telling me the truth.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

[flymore]

Again, that PDF flymore keeps pushing was written by a pilot. While this pilot is I’m sure a terrific pilot, he is not a scientist nor a journalist. He is a pilot. This document is not a scientific paper, it is an opinion piece written to express his point of view and as such it is a 64 page Avcanada post.

You’re right, I’m not an expert. And I’m probably an average hard working pilot.

That being said, I’ve referenced experts and scientific papers. I’ve also addressed the constant rebuttal of “shut up and listen to the experts”. (We Must Ask Questions section).

Lastly, I’m 100% open to respectful constructive feedback on the accuracy of data presented or if I’m missing a viewpoint. I have no qualms being proven wrong.
PS: I’ll ignore personal attacks.

covid facts every canadian should know (but most don't) - mar 01 2021 rev 1.1.pdf

(1.52 MiB) Downloaded 71 times

.

[mbav8r]

[quote=Rockie post_id=<a href="tel:1147255">1147255</a> time=<a href="tel:1615627796">1615627796</a> user_id=5632]
Again, that PDF flymore keeps pushing was written by a pilot. While this pilot is I’m sure a terrific pilot, he is not a scientist nor a journalist. He is a pilot. This document is not a scientific paper, it is an opinion piece written to express his point of view and as such it is a 64 page Avcanada post.

You’re right, I’m not an expert. And I’m probably an average hard working pilot.

That being said, I’ve referenced experts and scientific papers. I’ve also addressed the constant rebuttal of “shut up and listen to the experts”. (We Must Ask Questions section).

Lastly, I’m 100% open to respectful constructive feedback on the accuracy of data presented or if I’m missing a viewpoint. I have no qualms being proven wrong.
PS: I’ll ignore personal attacks.

covid facts every canadian should know (but most don't) - mar 01 2021 rev 1.1.pdf

.
[/quote]

Again, that PDF flymore keeps pushing was written by a pilot. While this pilot is I’m sure a terrific pilot, he is not a scientist nor a journalist. He is a pilot. This document is not a scientific paper, it is an opinion piece written to express his point of view and as such it is a 64 page Avcanada post.

There you have it, flymore appears to be the author, I completely dismissed it when I couldn’t find any credentials attributed to it.
The Covid FACTS you need to know, nearly 2.7 million deaths in a year WITH various lockdowns and prevention methods in effect, if you can’t imagine a scenario where it could’ve been 2, 3 or 10 times worse had we done nothing, you’re nothing short of a complete fucking moron.
The US, which each State had various measures in place but did not have high compliance accounts for 21% of total deaths but only accounts for 4.2% of the world’s population

[flymore]

The Covid FACTS you need to know, nearly 2.7 million deaths in a year WITH various lockdowns and prevention methods in effect, if you can’t imagine a scenario where it could’ve been 2, 3 or 10 times worse had we done nothing, you’re nothing short of a complete fucking moron.

Thanks for the respectful feedback. I’ve heard all your stats before. It’s perfectly fine if you don’t want to look at the document. But please refrain from making assumptions on my stance.

Let me clarify. Covid is real. Covid is a deadly threat to certain demographics and will results in millions of global deaths if not contained. Mitigation is required.

To avoid redundancy from the document information, all I’ll say is this. Data for classification of COVID deaths requires cautious interpretation, which I’ve addressed in my document. And every mitigation policy requires a cost-benefit and effectiveness analysis.

If you take the time to read it with an open mind and provide respectful feedback, I’m all ears. But again, no one is forcing you to read it and no one is forcing you to provide feedback.

Have a good day.

[2R]

The Brazilian variant third wave is affecting the working age population and some breeders . The Polish variant is now affecting school age children .
The slower the vaccine roll out for every body the more opportunities may produce more variants , variants that may make some of the vaccines redundant .

The smart money has already put their big planes in long term storage last year . More planes like the 380 fleets are headed for long term storage in the sandbox . What do they know ?

[mbav8r]

The Covid FACTS you need to know, nearly 2.7 million deaths in a year WITH various lockdowns and prevention methods in effect, if you can’t imagine a scenario where it could’ve been 2, 3 or 10 times worse had we done nothing, you’re nothing short of a complete fucking moron.

Thanks for the respectful feedback. I’ve heard all your stats before. It’s perfectly fine if you don’t want to look at the document. But please refrain from making assumptions on my stance.

Let me clarify. Covid is real. Covid is a deadly threat to certain demographics and will results in millions of global deaths if not contained. Mitigation is required.

To avoid redundancy from the document information, all I’ll say is this. Data for classification of COVID deaths requires cautious interpretation, which I’ve addressed in my document. And every mitigation policy requires a cost-benefit and effectiveness analysis.

If you take the time to read it with an open mind and provide respectful feedback, I’m all ears. But again, no one is forcing you to read it and no one is forcing you to provide feedback.

Have a good day.

I’ll clarify, my comment about the moron was directed at Montado, as I admitted, I didn’t read your entire file. I did peruse but when I couldn’t find an author or any credentials or even that the information had been vetted, I stopped.
I will give you the benefit of the doubt and read it with an open mind, I have with other’s, but as I said, without mitigation, this could have been much much worse and anyone who denies that lacks the intelligence required for me to give any credence to anything they have to say.
I also see how you thought that was directed at you, quoted you but I was commenting on Montado’s posts

[ReserveTank]

Then rockie comes out with his weak argument to dismiss the entire post that provides sources. And while there could be some opinions and maybe not all the information is 100 percent fact he dismisses it because the post was made by a pilot. He can’t even articulate one argument to refute one single point that was made.

Your reading ability is concerning Montado, I did not dismiss the PDF. I put it in the proper context as something produced by a pilot containing the opinions of a pilot. It is in fact a 64 page Avcanada post a lot longer, but no more scientifically legitimate than anything you write. If the person who produced it has any scientific credentials backing up his opinions this would be a good time to point them out.

This document is being flogged as a significant piece of work, and the author should have offered straight up what his background and qualifications relevant to the subject are. It's called full disclosure.

Research is what makes the foundation for credentials. Is every Seneca grad with a commercial license a credentialed expert on aviation? Certainly, there must be more to it than paper.

In the case of the midwit public's desire for credentials, a piece of paper and a title mean nothing if the profession is utilized to the detriment of society.

Josef Mengele was a medical expert. So was Dr. Barwin in Ottawa.
The 2008 financial crisis was created by qualified financial experts.
Political experts around the world said Iraq had WMDs.

Credentialed experts on TV are rife with corruption. We see the same "experts" day in and day out contradicting what they said previously, making ambiguous statements, and lacking common sense. The media pushes it, and the propaganda cycle continues...just like 100 years ago.

So when someone researches in earnest, your first instinct is to discard the research on a very narrow and frankly, ignorant premise.



To the author, thanks for the research and compilation of all of the tentacles of the COVID issue. A truly honest and revolutionary act during these times of socioeconomic change.

[Ruddervator]

I've read through the document, and I have some respectful constructive feedback.

The author is clearly smart, and has found a number of studies to support their premise in Part 1.

But after reading Parts 2 and 3, the hyperbolic premise of the whole paper becomes clear: Elitist liberal governments want to take away our rights, forever. When we present our alternative facts, we're told to "shut up and listen to the experts".

In Part 2, there is a whole section on how much money federal employees and politicians make. Clearly a method of portraying governments as elitist and out of touch.

On the topic of variants, the conclusion is: "What is the end game with variants? Shut down
forever, while the virus keeps mutating continuously?"

In Part 3, the author claims that the government would do the following:

• Alcohol would be banned (3 million deaths per year globally)
• Tobacco would be banned (21918 deaths/day globally)
• Highly processed and fried foods would be banned
• Peanuts would be banned
• Exercise would be mandatory
• Abstinence would be promoted to prevent sexually transmitted diseases
(500000 deaths per year globally)
• Driving would be banned (3699 deaths/day globally)
• We would instill a lockdown during every flu season to conserve hospital
capacity. 290000-650000 people die globally of the influenza every year. In
2019, nearly 6900 Canadians died of the flu.

The author seems to believe that the Elitist Liberals want to lock us all away in some kind of Orwellian dystopia. I get it. The author is "just asking questions", and trying to engage in critical thought. But these straw man arguments only work with the Conservative base.

Back to my original point: The author is smart, and knows how to research. The author has also dismissed contrary evidence, or deemed it worthy of "cautious interpretation" to fit the narrative. Anything that doesn't fit is placed on the back burner for future analysis. The figures presented here have been cherry-picked to support his ideological premise.

To flip a phrase from the author the other way around:
Or you can listen to Postmedia news outlets and live in your echo chamber...

[Rockie]

Yes, the author is smart. The author is also painting a picture to suit his preferred narrative, not an unbiased complete look at all evidence. The author is also not in any way qualified to look at all the evidence and arrive at a correct conclusion even if he wanted to. Which from what I read he didn't. I repeat, it is a 64 page avcanada post that has people like Montado wetting their pants.

Research is what makes the foundation for credentials.

Save it for somebody stupid enough to believe any of the crap you're selling. I'm not.

[mbav8r]

I've read through the document, and I have some respectful constructive feedback.

The author is clearly smart, and has found a number of studies to support their premise in Part 1.

But after reading Parts 2 and 3, the hyperbolic premise of the whole paper becomes clear: Elitist liberal governments want to take away our rights, forever. When we present our alternative facts, we're told to "shut up and listen to the experts".

In Part 2, there is a whole section on how much money federal employees and politicians make. Clearly a method of portraying governments as elitist and out of touch.

On the topic of variants, the conclusion is: "What is the end game with variants? Shut down
forever, while the virus keeps mutating continuously?"

In Part 3, the author claims that the government would do the following:

• Alcohol would be banned (3 million deaths per year globally)
• Tobacco would be banned (21918 deaths/day globally)
• Highly processed and fried foods would be banned
• Peanuts would be banned
• Exercise would be mandatory
• Abstinence would be promoted to prevent sexually transmitted diseases
(500000 deaths per year globally)
• Driving would be banned (3699 deaths/day globally)
• We would instill a lockdown during every flu season to conserve hospital
capacity. 290000-650000 people die globally of the influenza every year. In
2019, nearly 6900 Canadians died of the flu.

The author seems to believe that the Elitist Liberals want to lock us all away in some kind of Orwellian dystopia. I get it. The author is "just asking questions", and trying to engage in critical thought. But these straw man arguments only work with the Conservative base.

Back to my original point: The author is smart, and knows how to research. The author has also dismissed contrary evidence, or deemed it worthy of "cautious interpretation" to fit the narrative. Anything that doesn't fit is placed on the back burner for future analysis. The figures presented here have been cherry-picked to support his ideological premise.

To flip a phrase from the author the other way around:
Or you can listen to Postmedia news outlets and live in your echo chamber...

Perfect, thanks, you saved me some time.
Not sure what being a conservative has to do with it, I am and don’t buy into the propaganda.

[Rockie]

There’s nothing wrong with conservatives. They aren’t the problem and never have been.

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

There’s nothing wrong with conservatives. They aren’t the problem and never have been.

Neither are liberals. Jackwagons and idiots are the problem, regardless of which side of the argument you're on.

[rookiepilot]

The garbage media is still putting out stories like this one. I’m not sure if this is the 3rd or 4th wave. I’ve tuned it all out. Pure fear mongering nonsense. Meanwhile they had a nice video on the evening news of hospital staff doing a happy dance in the hospitals that are supposed to be overflowing with bodies by now.

https://www.cp24.com/news/covid-19-case ... -1.5343479

“COVID-19 cases are back on the rise in most areas of Ontario and the province could see nearly 6,000 cases per day by April even outside of a so-called “worst case scenario,” a model released Thursday suggests.
The Ontario COVID-19 Science Table says that outside of the vaccination of all willing residents and staff in long-term care homes, “progress has stalled” in combatting the pandemic in the province.
As of March 6, cases were increasing markedly in all but 13 of the province’s 34 local public health units.”

You and Montado still standing by the nonsense that the ICU's being full as of today is also fake news?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ ... -1.5969831

"Ontario's hospital intensive care units had 421 patients critically ill with COVID-19 as of Tuesday, more than at the worst of the pandemic's second wave. (Sam Nar/CBC)"

Once you posted that hospitals full was fake, you both lost every once of cred with me.

I happen to personally know nurses working in full ICU's, taking extra shifts, intubating patients. It's not pleasant.

You aren't helping, your comments are offensive. Suggest you take the conspiracy theories elsewhere.

Mods. Enough already.

[Ruddervator]

Mods. Enough already.

Then we would be silencing people, and infringing on their right to free speech. The people of this forum have made it very clear that misinformation is welcome here. Censorship is clearly far more dangerous.

[BigQ]

Because civil discussion is IMPERATIVE, and the more you try to quash your opposing opinion, the more it gets forced into the shadows and festers there, and slowly grows until it comes out in the open as a mainstream idea.

That is why discussion with vaxxers/anti-vaxxers, nazis/anti-nazis, facists/anti-facists in the OPEN is super duper hyper important. "The sunlight" of open discussion is a great "disinfectant", so to speak...