Air Canada Revises the Terms of its Capacity Purchase Agreement with Chorus Aviation for Regional Flying

[Loon-A-Tic]

Your an idiot. I own 6 buildings. I need only sell 3 for my retirement with positive cash flow from my other 3. I started with one condo 5% down. What pension. Nobody will take care of you but yourself.

Good for you, and I mean that sincerely. I own rental property as well and I'm sure I could learn a lot from someone like yourself because I'm not entirely thrilled with my experience. It works well at generating a tax return and has certainly gained value with the market but I lost interest in growing a larger real estate portfolio out of concerns of a real estate bubble and not wanting to have so many eggs in one basket, you're comfortable with your position, I wouldn't be. Also, gains in value are deemed to be taxable income on rental properties when you sell correct?

My 'Exhibit A' comment was reference to the comment above yours. Some Pilots are good at investing/saving/managing their finances but most aren't (not unlike most Canadians today). Pension plans are an excellent safety net and as I mentioned have the benefit of 'workaround' in the tax code that allow for greater tax savings than the current annual RRSP limit.

I don't disagree with you mantra, I have no interest in leaving my well being up to government aid or anyone else's assistance. A statement like "the best pension is no pension at all" is simplistic, ignorant and was ruinous for millions in the Great Depression.

If your a pilot for +30 and you haven’t figured out how to invest, then I have zero sympathy for you. Learning to invest is perhaps the most important thing about life. If your not cut out for it, then hire someone to do it for you. But don’t force your coworkers to have a pension because you’re not clever enough to take care of yourself.

Jazz and AC need to liberate their employees from their crooked pension plans and give them bigger paycheques. It would save the company money and save the employees money. It’s the right thing to do.

My investment advisor and I have a great arrangement. She doesn't tell me how to fly an airplane and I don't tell her how to invest money, know your limits and play with them is my motto.

[FL101]

And folks, it’s gonna be a DOH list merger. Of course it’s DOH. It’s always been DOH, it always will be.

What is up for grabs is the timing of who stays in which seat and who gets called back before who. That’ll depend on the speed of training, and wether the EMBs will be the first to %100, or if the other Jazz fleet will be brought back first.

[Kosiw]

As mentioned before, there will be winner's and loser's, those most likely affected had better break out the calculator and figure out potential lost or gained earnings math to try and make an informed decision before any potential decision/vote... it will be several years before a return to any resembalance of the movement of 2019. What's the old saying...."money talks, bullshit walks".

[straight2thepoint]

If it makes any difference regarding the E2, the demonstrator was on the ground at the Sky hangar in YYZ on October 1, 2019.

[rudder]

If it makes any difference regarding the E2, the demonstrator was on the ground at the Sky hangar in YYZ on October 1, 2019.

It must have been the E190 E2. The first E175 E2 flight did not occur until December 2019.

Certification and commercial delivery of the E175 E2 now delayed to 2023 (or beyond). List price approximately US$47MM. Number of E175 E2 on order? Zero.

Perhaps AC will get lucky and get a C-series type discount on the E2. But I am not holding my breath.

[TrilliumFlt]

If it makes any difference regarding the E2, the demonstrator was on the ground at the Sky hangar in YYZ on October 1, 2019.

It must have been the E190 E2. The first E175 E2 flight did not occur until December 2019.

Certification and commercial delivery of the E175 E2 now delayed to 2023 (or beyond). List price approximately US$47MM. Number of E175 E2 on order? Zero.

Perhaps AC will get lucky and get a C-series type discount on the E2. But I am not holding my breath.

I realize it's not a Canadian airplane any longer but it would be nice to see a downsized CSeries "out and about" in the Canadian regional segment.

[mbav8r]

Your an idiot. I own 6 buildings. I need only sell 3 for my retirement with positive cash flow from my other 3. I started with one condo 5% down. What pension. Nobody will take care of you but yourself.

Good for you, and I mean that sincerely. I own rental property as well and I'm sure I could learn a lot from someone like yourself because I'm not entirely thrilled with my experience. It works well at generating a tax return and has certainly gained value with the market but I lost interest in growing a larger real estate portfolio out of concerns of a real estate bubble and not wanting to have so many eggs in one basket, you're comfortable with your position, I wouldn't be. Also, gains in value are deemed to be taxable income on rental properties when you sell correct?

My 'Exhibit A' comment was reference to the comment above yours. Some Pilots are good at investing/saving/managing their finances but most aren't (not unlike most Canadians today). Pension plans are an excellent safety net and as I mentioned have the benefit of 'workaround' in the tax code that allow for greater tax savings than the current annual RRSP limit.

I don't disagree with you mantra, I have no interest in leaving my well being up to government aid or anyone else's assistance. A statement like "the best pension is no pension at all" is simplistic, ignorant and was ruinous for millions in the Great Depression.

If your a pilot for +30 and you haven’t figured out how to invest, then I have zero sympathy for you. Learning to invest is perhaps the most important thing about life. If your not cut out for it, then hire someone to do it for you. But don’t force your coworkers to have a pension because you’re not clever enough to take care of yourself.

Jazz and AC need to liberate their employees from their crooked pension plans and give them bigger paycheques. It would save the company money and save the employees money. It’s the right thing to do.

Seriously! Force your coworkers to have a pension! Nobody is forcing you to join a company that has a pension but I guarantee that most of your coworkers sought employment at said company partly because of it. Are you against RRSP company matching too? Same thing just puts at the risk on you!
There is HUGE downside risk of making bad investment choices and there are thousands of employees who are happy to not worry about their retirement.
What are the odds of taking that extra 6-8% as salary and turning it into a nice healthy retirement nest egg? I’ve seen the other side, a family member who has outlived her retirement savings and is now living month to month in a tiny subsidized studio apartment, ask her if she would have preferred a company pension, I know the answer!
Also, please tell the class what makes Jazz and AC’s pension plans crooked?

[FL101]

Why do you assume your pension plan will “take care of you?” Why do you assume you won’t have to “worry about retirement” because you have a pension? I sure hope to heck you’re saving and investing outside your company pension. A fully funded AC DB pension might be enough if you’re a captain long enough. But a Jazz DC pension? The Jazz pilots are locked into a set 2% wage inflation rate till 2035 (from what I’ve been told), that group will see their earning power dwindle over time.

Both DB and DC pensions are crooked because of the management fees that pension plans charge. Industry standard is %1/yr off the top plus the fees that are charged within the funds that your contributions are invested in, which is another %.3/yr. and most pension target date funds are funds of other funds each with a %.3 fee of their own!! Add that up and most pension target date funds are nearly %2/yr! It’s outrageous what pension funds are doing.

Look at any ETF provider. Blackrock, Vanguard, RBC, TD you name it, all have perfectly safe, diversified and investible funds that rival or beat anything inside your DC pension fund list at well below %1/yr fee. Most ETFs are below %.30/yr, some as low as %.03-%.10. And God forbid someone learns to pick stocks haha.

The best way for employees to save for retirement is a voluntary RRSP matching plan within the employees OWN fund that they control (or give to their bank/investment person for control). Voluntary is a key thing. How many employees are accumulating consumer debt while being under employed who should stop saving for retirement until their finances improve? S/P 500 returned %16 last year, but your credit card charged you %20......

I’m not a Jazz person. Just an outsider pilot and financial guy. But you Jazz folks really need to have a look at your pension plan. You’d be much better off if you ditched it For voluntary RRSP matching.

[FL101]

Or what’s better than RRSP matching is simply bigger pay cheques and figure your retirement out on your own.

I’ve seen, worked with, and read about pilots and employees in other companies who got screwed because of their pensions. Check out GE, Coke and GM. It’s shocking to me that this practice is continuing at old Jazz.

I have no dog in the fight, but I gotta speak out to you guys.

[timeflies]

.

[crj_705]

March 15, 2021

Completion and Ratification of Agreements

Ladies and gentlemen,

We are pleased to report that Sunday evening we reached an agreement with the Company for the integration of the E175 aircraft and Sky Regional Pilots. Just a few hours ago, the MEC unanimously approved and ratified the following:

Memorandum of Agreement (MOA) - Respecting the Integration of Sky Regional Airlines Inc Pilots into the Jazz Aviation LP Bargaining Unit
LOU 49 - One Time Special Separation Package
Memorandum of Settlement No 6 – Modifications to Collective Agreement No 5

Details will be released shortly. I am confident that once the Pilot group has the chance to review the entire package, the agreements will be well received.

I would like to thank the JAZ MEC for their leadership. Special thanks to the Negotiating Committee, and ALPA Staff for their dedication and hard work on behalf of Jazz Pilots. Finally, thank you to the SKV MEC for their trust and commitment to this process.

We look forward to welcoming all Sky Regional Pilots as they transition to Jazz.

In solidarity,

JAZMEC Chairman

[FL030]

So no vote?

[swervin]

So no vote?

Not surprised.

[Loon-A-Tic]

So no vote?

Not surprised.

Why are you surprised, once an MEC has been elected to act on your behalf they are "empowered" to do exactly that. You don't see issues that a federal government faces as it runs the country returned to the people for a vote. An MEC is essentially that; your elected representative's, that as such have been given a mandate to govern by the membership.

[a220hereicome]

“Just a few hours ago, the MEC unanimously approved and ratified the following:

Memorandum of Agreement (MOA) - Respecting the Integration of Sky Regional Airlines Inc Pilots into the Jazz Aviation LP Bargaining Unit
LOU 49 - One Time Special Separation Package
Memorandum of Settlement No 6 – Modifications to Collective Agreement No 5

Details will be released shortly. I am confident that once the Pilot group has the chance to review the entire package, the agreements will be well received. ”

Just like that? “We think you’ll really like the career-defining deal we just ratified.” No vote?

This is the gold standard of ALPA governance we keep hearing about?

[rudder]

This is the gold standard of ALPA governance we keep hearing about?

ALPA governance defaults to MEC ratification. It then permits each MEC to make decisions about memrat (membership ratification).

Some MEC’s make these decisions on an ad hoc basis (this is how the JAZ MEC functions). Some MEC’s codify memrat in their MEC Policy Manual such that specific items are mandatorily subject to memrat (collective agreements, LOU’s, etc).

[haironfire]

Certification and commercial delivery of the E175 E2 now delayed to 2023 (or beyond). List price approximately US$47MM. Number of E175 E2 on order? Zero.

Perhaps AC will get lucky and get a C-series type discount on the E2. But I am not holding my breath.

Rudder, exactly my point. Considering Embraer's status on E2: no orders, weight limited due to scope in U.S. etc. I believe Air Canada can be in the driver's seat for future Regional Renewal contracts.

I was at Bombardier flying both the CSeries and CRJ 700, 900, and 1000. For those that are betting on a mini A220 forget that. If anything they will go to 500 model, and that is way out in future.

This consolidation Sky Regional/Jazz is a good thing for our future. I am a Sky Guy. Short Term Pain for Long Term Gain. Just my forecast.

[rudder]

Considering Embraer's status on E2: no orders, weight limited due to scope in U.S. etc. I believe Air Canada can be in the driver's seat for future Regional Renewal contracts.

I am certain that AC hopes that will be the case.

With the pause on the E175 E2 certification at Embraer, it is likely no commercial delivery slots would be available prior to 2024.

At the right price, I could see a late 2023 order announcement with deliveries commencing in the second half of 2024 extending out over a 2025-2029 time frame.

[GATRKGA]

I hope the Sky pilots realize how lucky they are. And if i hear one negative comment outta of them about Jazz i swear ......
You got handed a golden ticket.I flew with guys who couldn't wait to leave Jazz for "big Jets" like at Transat...
I ask what are those guys doing now??? sitting on there buts WISHing they could still be at Jazz.

Be gracious, be grateful and leave the attitudes at the door

I’d be more concerned about your attitude, as you seem to be a bit upset over a few things. A pfo from transat, and now that sky pilots somehow are lucky.

Sky pilots decided to join ALPA so that if a day like this turned out, they were united with their counterparts next door. Looks like they’re being rewarded for that decision back in 2016 to join ALPA. I call them smart, not lucky.

Also you can’t possibly be sitting there on your arbitrary mountain of superiority to claim that you saw a pandemic coming when people decided to leave for bigger and better careers. When things go back to normal, people will always have a better career at places like ac, transat, wj, than at Jazz in terms of pay, lifestyle, and retirement. Enjoy your temporary moment of righteousness, lol.

By the way nothing against jazz, it can be a career company for many and that’s exactly it, it depends what you want and what the idea of “better” is for you personally. But for most, better exists at the majors, even if there’s a short term pain associated with it cause the world decided to go through a storm for a few years.

Good luck and congrats to sky guys for getting awarded the right eventual outcome.

[rudder]

Sky pilots decided to join ALPA so that if a day like this turned out, they were united with their counterparts next door. Looks like they’re being rewarded for that decision back in 2016 to join ALPA. I call them smart, not lucky.

SKV pilots joined ALPA in November 2018.

[timeflies]

I hope the Sky pilots realize how lucky they are. And if i hear one negative comment outta of them about Jazz i swear ......
You got handed a golden ticket.I flew with guys who couldn't wait to leave Jazz for "big Jets" like at Transat...
I ask what are those guys doing now??? sitting on there buts WISHing they could still be at Jazz.

Be gracious, be grateful and leave the attitudes at the door

you created your fake avcanada account march 3rd, edited your post 6 times. what kind of looser are you ? lol. go eat a sneakers you d!ckhead.

[the-minister31]

I hope the Sky pilots realize how lucky they are. And if i hear one negative comment outta of them about Jazz i swear ......
You got handed a golden ticket.I flew with guys who couldn't wait to leave Jazz for "big Jets" like at Transat...
I ask what are those guys doing now??? sitting on there buts WISHing they could still be at Jazz.

Be gracious, be grateful and leave the attitudes at the door

You talk about attitude? I hope you can leave yours at home when you come flying with an ex-SKV guy. We are all pilots, all ALPA, all in the same boat.

I am excited to work with Jazz, but if you want me to feel like you are superior to me because I come from Sky, forget it. Do you really wanted us, fellow ALPA pilots get the door while you take the jets we flown? A year after intergrating DOH with GGN? Who do you think you are?

[GATRKGA]

Sky pilots decided to join ALPA so that if a day like this turned out, they were united with their counterparts next door. Looks like they’re being rewarded for that decision back in 2016 to join ALPA. I call them smart, not lucky.

SKV pilots joined ALPA in November 2018.

Correct, typo. Thanks!

[scrat1]

I hope the Sky pilots realize how lucky they are. And if i hear one negative comment outta of them about Jazz i swear ......
You got handed a golden ticket.I flew with guys who couldn't wait to leave Jazz for "big Jets" like at Transat...
I ask what are those guys doing now??? sitting on there buts WISHing they could still be at Jazz.

Be gracious, be grateful and leave the attitudes at the door

You talk about attitude? I hope you can leave yours at home when you come flying with an ex-SKV guy. We are all pilots, all ALPA, all in the same boat.

I am excited to work with Jazz, but if you want me to feel like you are superior to me because I come from Sky, forget it. Do you really wanted us, fellow ALPA pilots get the door while you take the jets we flown? A year after intergrating DOH with GGN? Who do you think you are?

Hey man, do not let the bad take the good out of you!!!! idiots will always be idiots. You don't even know who's behind that computer, you don't even know if this person is an actually Jazz employee. Honestly, Jazz employees have bigger fish to fry at this moment, they are more concerned with their lives, CEWS extension, recall rather than worry with SKV pilots. Show up at jazz with a good attitude, show them you're happy to be there and you will always be good wherever you are at, AC, Transat, Westjet. The ones with a bad attitude will be weed out as few GGN guys slowly were. Once you're wearing Jazz hat NO-ONE will treat you bad. forget about this guy.

[flyingcanuck]

I am excited to work with Jazz, but if you want me to feel like you are superior to me because I come from Sky, forget it. Do you really wanted us, fellow ALPA pilots get the door while you take the jets we flown? A year after intergrating DOH with GGN? Who do you think you are?

lets not pretend its anyones jets but ACs. At this moment im sure a majority of the company doesnt care about new jets, they are more concerned with job security and getting back to work. We said the same thing when the RJs were sent to GGN, and then they said the same when they came back. Both of you should know none of this is Jazz or Skys fault or wanting this to happen but AC. I for one would of course welcome any Sky guys/gals with respect, and am glad you all will not be shown the door. My personal gripe is with the union and their treatment of the juniors who are already at Jazz. I'm sure you can understand those who need this job being told they are being pushed down the list can have their own reservations about this deal. That being said it's unfair to treat any Sky pilot different, people are just pissed and stressed, I don't think any GGN pilot was treated differently and you shouldn't be either.