CDC release study on masks during covid. Efficacy is 0.5-1.9 percent.

[ReserveTank]

Rockie et all: do not give credence to the nutjobs by continuing to engage with them.

I don't think OneYonge is a nutjob. Reservetank, Montado, Rjguy....definitely. Those guys are too far gone for reason and just need to be ridiculed.

It's not reason, it's math and science. Math never lies. REAL science (not that Bill Nye-tier garbage) doesn't lie. This culture of over-reasoning everything and "paralysis by analysis" is a social pathology, and it's how we got into this mess. You're a victim of politics, but you're not smart enough to understand it. Your response of shaming (ridiculing) proves the point that it takes an army of room-temperature IQ followers to ruin life for the productive citizens around you. People like you live off of the avails of people like me, you could just say thank you.

[Rockie]

That isn't how it works. Science isn't settled by popular vote. How many times do you want to read that?

Who said a vote? I said only a thousand times "consensus". We'd still be living in caves until we die at 25 years old if we waited for 100% agreement before acting on anything. You know that...I think.

But I told you, MANDATES and POLICIES are a different subject.

You said I was confusing SCIENCE and POLICIES, which is patently false and you would know that if you bothered to read. You don't need to explain the difference between mandates and policies either. I'm not stupid.

but he insists on fighting me because he thinks he understands Science.

Rich.

People like you live off of the avails of people like me, you could just say thank you.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[OneYonge]

That isn't how it works. Science isn't settled by popular vote. How many times do you want to read that?

Who said a vote? I said only a thousand times "consensus". We'd still be living in caves until we die at 25 years old if we waited for 100% agreement before acting on anything. You know that...I think.

Again. Politics. Science is not based on "agreement" of people either. It is based on objective data.
Things that are true whether you agree with them or not.

Making a decision by considering current consensus(which can change)....that is RISK MANAGEMENT.

Can Science show that Chinese quarantine measures were effectve? YES.
Should you kidnap people and mandate all these atrocities? POLITICS not SCIENCE.

Can Science show that Masks are effective? YES
Should Masks be mandated by government force? POLITICS not SCIENCE

[OneYonge]

We'd still be living in caves until we die at 25 years old if we waited for 100% agreement before acting on anything. You know that...I think.

Yes I agree 100% with this.

So there is no need to pretend that "there is no debate because we know everything already" before we act.

Learning how to make decisions given incomplete information...that is RISK MANAGEMENT.

A current consensus doesn't mean there is "no more debate"
It doesn't mean we already know everything.

New evidence should not be ignored.

[montado]

A month after removing mandatory masks....

FD361992-71B5-4683-8F17-9D64A2D55C6E.jpeg (291.54 KiB) Viewed 2179 times

Removing mandatory mask policy doesn’t mean people are not wearing masks... mandatory mask policy also did not mean everyone was wearing masks

At the beginning of the month Texas was said to have 23k doses per 100k people.

Has mask policy really made any difference?

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

Why is this thread even still continuing?

RedandWhiteBaron ended it with math, on the first page.

The rest is just noise.

Rockie et all: do not give credence to the nutjobs by continuing to engage with them. There is zero to be gained with trying to reason with those of questionable mental stability. Spend your logical resources on something worthy.

Pretty sure cdc ended it with the science with one of the first studies specifically about mask policy during covid. And the results of the science is that mask policy is only 0.5 to 1.9 percent effective at stopping the spread of covid.

Now knowing that science everyone is telling us their values. Rockie really values mask policy. Others think that every Canadian would be dead 10x if we didn't have mask policy. follow the science.

You are assuming two things:

1. My exponential growth scenario stops at the border.
2. Every one of those cases results in death.

Neither of which is true.

A 0.5% to 1.9% efficacy rate is far more effective than it seems if you understand exponential growth. But being a small number, anti-maskers latch on to it as evidence they are correct, in spite of the clear mathematical proof that says otherwise.

[montado]

I'm not anti mask. I am anti mask policy. This is not based solely on the science of mask efficacy. This is based on the efficacyof policy as a whole as well as my values.

Whether or not masks are mandated, in my opinion, makes very little differences in covid cases. Just watch places the relax mask measuresand remember all the experts who were calling them out as being dangerous for removing policy. Looks like Texas is doing fine. And interesting enough Ontario's popular opinionis we need to reopen... Do you see the political decisions happening right now? Cases are trending upwards yet I hear less talk or lockdown. Hmmm. We have mandated masks yet we are the ones with cases increasing. Toronto has some of the most strict covid rules in the world. These things make me think about policy.

[montado]

https://globalnews.ca/news/7720264/cana ... uarantine/

NHL players to get more relaxed rules.

You know the reason? Because they said they are very low risk. No shit shirlock everyone is very low risk when you look at absolutes. Show me that an NHL player is less risk than other low risk citizen. But of course that would not be true, NHL players are the same risk but they get special treatment at our expense. This is the kind of garbage our politicians allow.

Why aren't people outraged? Why are we not out protesting? We put more value on hockey season than we do on the ability for middle class small business owners being able to open. The government just said hockey is more important than your small business and livelihood as they are willing to accept the small risk with hockey players but not the small risk of your business being open.

[montado]

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamane ... e/2774102/

We are told to wear a mask because of asymptomatic spread. Here is a study on household transmission that talks about symptomatic vs asymptomatic spread.

Estimated mean household secondary attack rate from symptomatic index cases (18.0%; 95% CI, 14.2%-22.1%) was significantly higher than from asymptomatic or presymptomatic index cases (0.7%; 95% CI, 0%-4.9%; P < .001), although there were few studies in the latter group. These findings are consistent with other household studies28,70 reporting asymptomatic index cases as having limited role in household transmission.

Spread is 26x more likely with symptomatic people.

If you are sick, stay home. Just like the flu! We are also told by experts asymptomatic people were the problem because there were so many of them! And now this has changed yet again:

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4851

Earlier estimates that 80% of infections are asymptomatic were too high and have since been revised down to between 17% and 20% of people with infections.12

So remember when you wear your mask, this is because you were told there are so many asymptomatic people, and these people are spreading it like crazy. Fear fear fear... everyone can have it and everyone can kill you.

Lies lies lies... these findings published drastically change the “science” used to say masks need to be mandatory. Asymptomatic cases are now said to be 4x less than first thought, and in households those who were symptomatic were 26x more likely to spread covid. What do I know I’m not an expert... dumb dumb dumb

And then our idiotic DOFO government doesn’t want to give people sick days. Ok folks! Let’s just keep pretending asymptomatic people are spreading covid, wear your mask and enjoy the show.

[OneYonge]

I'm not anti mask. I am anti mask policy. This is not based solely on the science of mask efficacy. This is based on the efficacyof policy as a whole as well as my values.

100% of Scientists agree about the extremely harmful effects of Alcohol, Tobacco and Sugar.

The policy is to still keep them around and not ban them.

"Follow the Science" narratives are stupid and they are just politics.

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

I'm not anti mask. I am anti mask policy. This is not based solely on the science of mask efficacy. This is based on the efficacyof policy as a whole as well as my values.

Whether or not masks are mandated, in my opinion, makes very little differences in covid cases.

In that case, my apologies. It would be fair to say I am far less anti-mask than I am anti-mandatory-mask myself.

I would agree that not everyone who thinks we should all be wearing masks also thinks we should be forced to.

[ReserveTank]

I'm not anti mask. I am anti mask policy. This is not based solely on the science of mask efficacy. This is based on the efficacyof policy as a whole as well as my values.

Whether or not masks are mandated, in my opinion, makes very little differences in covid cases.

In that case, my apologies. It would be fair to say I am far less anti-mask than I am anti-mandatory-mask myself.

I would agree that not everyone who thinks we should all be wearing masks also thinks we should be forced to.

It's better to protect the minority of vulnerable people than it is to force 7 billion people to wear masks* every day. If there are vulnerable people in one's family, they are likely susceptible to a lot more than the common cold. Families should be there to protect them and keep them out of public. If we weren't so atomised, we'd have a leg to stand on in this matter.

*masks-disposable, toxic, polluting, and proven statistically insignificant efficacy in general use. Also creates psychosocial ills dues to the face being obscured. The face is a necessary component of human communication and emotion. Especially for children, who always pay for the psychoses of our society. They know these facts. It's not "evolving" !sCiEnCe! like some will try to fool you into believing.

[montado]

The state with two thirds the population of Texas is out pacing them in cases while they double down on masks. Tell me more about how great mask policy is. Texas, no mask policy, higher population than NY and yet still less daily cases. Florida also larger population and lower cases.

Meanwhile Biden is giving his speech about how we all need to wear masks, and this is not political... right... it’s definitely more political than scientific. What do I know, I’m just a dumb dumb!

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[OneYonge]

I would agree that not everyone who thinks we should all be wearing masks also thinks we should be forced to.

Given that 80% of people hospitalized for Covid-19 were overweight or obese(CDC stat), maybe we should mandate exercise instead of masks.

Fat is the real pandemic.

[ReserveTank]

I would agree that not everyone who thinks we should all be wearing masks also thinks we should be forced to.

Given that 80% of people hospitalized for Covid-19 were overweight or obese(CDC stat), maybe we should mandate exercise instead of masks.

Fat is the real pandemic.

+1.

We are in a FatDemic. It's flatten the curve, not FATten the curve, ok?
Overweight people are dangerous because they cause excessive hospital bed occupancy. We need those for the covid patients.
Smokers and drug users are also causing problems with hospital bed space. Killers, all of them.

[RyanWalker90]

so if it weren't for the fat people and the heavy smokers and drinkers, COVID would not be such a serious public health crisis. Instead of shutting down the economy and putting millions out of work, we should ban smoking, candy, ice cream, hot dogs, donuts, pizza, etc.

[OneYonge]

so if it weren't for the fat people and the heavy smokers and drinkers, COVID would not be such a serious public health crisis. Instead of shutting down the economy and putting millions out of work, we should ban smoking, candy, ice cream, hot dogs, donuts, pizza, etc.

yup. "follow the science" right? Many people confuse science with policy prescriptions.

If health guidelines had told us to socially distance from obese people over the age of fifty, the pandemic would already be over.

But noone dare say that so openly in public...it isn't very PC.

[montado]

Oh @#$! Ford is talking! Pull the emergency brake! He said this is a new pandemic! It's new! I was right the pandemic was over but now we have a new one!

Listen in live folks... The man who has mismanaged the last 12 months is telling us how the next month will be!

Dangle carrot... Vaccine is coming... Just 4 more weeks and we can be normal folks! Dr doomvilla gave advice... Lots of good experts! Great... Okay what are we doing? Oh the new shutdown is exactly the same as what we have been doing since Christmas except outdoor dining must shut down again.. . Ah @#$!! If only we knew 12 months ago it was the outdoor dining... Well! So glad we got this figured out!

Edit

OH gawd Easter is cancelled folks! Don't get together with family... We all need to do our part...interesting the timeline of all these variants and changes they always hit a few days before holidays.

Ah here we go with what exactly a shutdown is.. We have done lockdown, we have done stay at home order... Today its called and "emergency brake shutdown" well what the @#$! does it mean! Doug is now explaining how we have the toughest restrictions in North America... Why aren't the doctors explaining why the tough measures are not giving different results than the no measures to the south of us?

Doug just admitted a bunch of healthcare workers have declined the vaccine and he doesn't know why. He's pleading for them to take the vaccine.

Do you see how these idiots keep removing and putting their mask back on as they approach and leave the podium. Doug Ford just stuffs his mask in his pocket. Like hello lead by example. The way your hands are all over your mask and you treat it like a Kleenex is not how this thing works. Anyone who knows the first thing about mask efficacy knows you have to use the PPE correct for it to even have any remote chance of being effective.

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

a bunch of healthcare workers have declined the vaccine

Fire them. All of them. With extreme prejudice.

I'm usually an ardent supporter of personal freedom regardless of consequence, but not with people who can't seem to grasp the idea that healthcare is supposed to stop further spread. These people are selfish, misinformed, and dangerous. I don't care if you have a religious or moral or health exemption to vaccine requirements. If you can't or won't be vaccinated, stay out of the fucking hospitals. Fire them. All of them. With extreme prejudice.

[montado]

a bunch of healthcare workers have declined the vaccine

Fire them. All of them. With extreme prejudice.

I'm usually an ardent supporter of personal freedom regardless of consequence, but not with people who can't seem to grasp the idea that healthcare is supposed to stop further spread. These people are selfish, misinformed, and dangerous. I don't care if you have a religious or moral or health exemption to vaccine requirements. If you can't or won't be vaccinated, stay out of the fucking hospitals. Fire them. All of them. With extreme prejudice.

No, clearly you are not a supporter of personal freedom. You accept freedom when it’s convenient for you. Interesting perspective because I find you selfish, misinformed and dangerous.

[Ruddervator]

Interesting perspective because I find you selfish, misinformed and dangerous.

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

a bunch of healthcare workers have declined the vaccine

Fire them. All of them. With extreme prejudice.

I'm usually an ardent supporter of personal freedom regardless of consequence, but not with people who can't seem to grasp the idea that healthcare is supposed to stop further spread. These people are selfish, misinformed, and dangerous. I don't care if you have a religious or moral or health exemption to vaccine requirements. If you can't or won't be vaccinated, stay out of the fucking hospitals. Fire them. All of them. With extreme prejudice.

No, clearly you are not a supporter of personal freedom. You accept freedom when it’s convenient for you. Interesting perspective because I find you selfish, misinformed and dangerous.

From the above opinion of mine, selfish and misinformed is possible, although not likely. I fail to see where you see it as dangerous, though.

And as far as being an ardent supporter of personal freedom, as the old adage goes, your freedom to swing your fists stops at my face. Some limits on freedom are necessary in a functioning society, otherwise I would be free to burn your house down, and you would be free to kill me in retribution. Where the line is drawn is something we clearly disagree on.

I am also perfectly free to refuse medical treatment from an unvaccinated doctor - as are all of us, in the form of vaccine mandates for active doctors.

[rookiepilot]

Oh @#$! Ford is talking! Pull the emergency brake! He said this is a new pandemic! It's new! I was right the pandemic was over but now we have a new one!

Listen in live folks... The man who has mismanaged the last 12 months is telling us how the next month will be!

Dangle carrot... Vaccine is coming... Just 4 more weeks and we can be normal folks! Dr doomvilla gave advice... Lots of good experts! Great... Okay what are we doing? Oh the new shutdown is exactly the same as what we have been doing since Christmas except outdoor dining must shut down again.. . Ah @#$!! If only we knew 12 months ago it was the outdoor dining... Well! So glad we got this figured out!

Edit

OH gawd Easter is cancelled folks! Don't get together with family... We all need to do our part...interesting the timeline of all these variants and changes they always hit a few days before holidays.

Ah here we go with what exactly a shutdown is.. We have done lockdown, we have done stay at home order... Today its called and "emergency brake shutdown" well what the @#$! does it mean! Doug is now explaining how we have the toughest restrictions in North America... Why aren't the doctors explaining why the tough measures are not giving different results than the no measures to the south of us?

Doug just admitted a bunch of healthcare workers have declined the vaccine and he doesn't know why. He's pleading for them to take the vaccine.

Do you see how these idiots keep removing and putting their mask back on as they approach and leave the podium. Doug Ford just stuffs his mask in his pocket. Like hello lead by example. The way your hands are all over your mask and you treat it like a Kleenex is not how this thing works. Anyone who knows the first thing about mask efficacy knows you have to use the PPE correct for it to even have any remote chance of being effective.

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm really tired of your uninformed, Monday morning quarterbacking tirades Montado. You're certainly not a medical professional from your comments. So what are your qualifications to comment intelligently?

How about the Mods put a stop to these endless, in reality, politically driven rants.

This is nothing to do with aviation, either.

ALL of us are severely inconvenienced and financially hurt by this pandemic whether we work in the industry or not.

[Ruddervator]

Censorship is apparently more harmful than misinformation.

[ReserveTank]

Oh @#$! Ford is talking! Pull the emergency brake! He said this is a new pandemic! It's new! I was right the pandemic was over but now we have a new one!

Listen in live folks... The man who has mismanaged the last 12 months is telling us how the next month will be!

Dangle carrot... Vaccine is coming... Just 4 more weeks and we can be normal folks! Dr doomvilla gave advice... Lots of good experts! Great... Okay what are we doing? Oh the new shutdown is exactly the same as what we have been doing since Christmas except outdoor dining must shut down again.. . Ah @#$!! If only we knew 12 months ago it was the outdoor dining... Well! So glad we got this figured out!

Edit

OH gawd Easter is cancelled folks! Don't get together with family... We all need to do our part...interesting the timeline of all these variants and changes they always hit a few days before holidays.

Ah here we go with what exactly a shutdown is.. We have done lockdown, we have done stay at home order... Today its called and "emergency brake shutdown" well what the @#$! does it mean! Doug is now explaining how we have the toughest restrictions in North America... Why aren't the doctors explaining why the tough measures are not giving different results than the no measures to the south of us?

Doug just admitted a bunch of healthcare workers have declined the vaccine and he doesn't know why. He's pleading for them to take the vaccine.

Do you see how these idiots keep removing and putting their mask back on as they approach and leave the podium. Doug Ford just stuffs his mask in his pocket. Like hello lead by example. The way your hands are all over your mask and you treat it like a Kleenex is not how this thing works. Anyone who knows the first thing about mask efficacy knows you have to use the PPE correct for it to even have any remote chance of being effective.

How about the Mods put a stop to these endless, in reality, politically driven rants.

You don't have to participate but you chose to read and post in the covid thread. Ya, get the mods. What a tattle-tale, daddy government society.