Transat revenues drop by 99%, with 2,000 layoffs expected

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altiplano
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Re: Transat revenues drop by 99%, with 2,000 layoffs expected

Post by altiplano »

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FL030
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Re: Transat revenues drop by 99%, with 2,000 layoffs expected

Post by FL030 »

Most people I know at AC would not consider 72 hour layover to be a lucrative lifestyle. It's work. They'd rather be home with their families and playing with their toys. Maybe some of the young ex-Jazz guys would like it. You know, the ones that can barely get through training but you think are going to be DOH merged into Mainline Air Canada.
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alkaseltzer
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Re: Transat revenues drop by 99%, with 2,000 layoffs expected

Post by alkaseltzer »

GATRKGA wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:36 pm Everyone has a version they want this to go. I prefer to stay separate, as I think AC has an interesting road to recovery as is because of the 60% business diversity the company is vested in. The pilot group seems more bitter than ever, I can’t imagine those conversations being pleasant in the flight deck with the @#$! show going on with ACPA. Pretty sure every guy junior guy will vote alpa just out of spite.

My opinion?

Bailout before April 19
Transat acquired by AC.
Alpa representation vote wins after the merger
Alpa in house at jazz and ac
Common employer by 2025
Jazz DOH merger and buyout of senior guys to protect widebody captains at AC
Flat pay removed at AC because ts CUMULATIVE years salary is superior the first 7 years. Win for Junior Ac pilots considering about 50% of positions are less than 6 years in at TS? Take the 50% on in the junior ranks, and remove flat pay? Not bad right? Ts pilots win with other segments of ac ca where ts stands to gain. At the expense of the loss in lifestyle that you had at ts. Win some lose some. I don’t think ac pilots will ever truly understand how lucrative the lifestyle was at ts. Yes even at expense of not making 300k as a year 12 guy. Settle for 260 and work 350 hours a year? With the majority layover being 48-72 hrs in those ranks? Pretty sweet.


My reason for the transaction happening?

1. Ac would have already walked away, so there clearly exists something they want out of the deal. And it’s not From the Eu side. It’s bailout related and something along the lines of having the government fund enough to pay for the transaction “to preserve Quebec jobs” québécois victim story 101 being saved by the great Trudeau! Then baam, election?
2. You don’t want ts/wj to dominate transatlantic market while your 767’s are busy doing lucrative cargo. Do you really want to give that market to wj/ts after fighting tooth and nail for it since 2010? Do you really reconvert the profitable 67’s doing cargo back to passenger just to kill transat, do we really want to go down that failure of a road again? May as well own the airline and the balance sheet that goes with it. Ts still has a cash surplus which is why they can finance the secured loans. Doesn’t mean it has to be used. Even if 500m is used, they have a cash surplus. AC still walks away a winner. Don’t forget something, Canadian banks do not arbitrarily just finance a “failing” airline out of the kindness of their heart. There exists merit and many plan b’s and c’s to leverage a company like transat with a secured loan product. For instance, let’s not forget a stock financing or convertible debentures available to them if shit gets real. It hasn’t and it won’t. Why? If the ts transaction goes through, you have $7 something equivalent price point? Very easy to finance a $5 equivalent (~$15 dilutive Ac shares) if needed.
3. The collective ac/ts group comes out stronger post 2024 than they would separate.
4. Decide how many active ac and ts pilots during merger. Merge doh. Recall all laid off AC guys first, get everyone a bonus while laid off ts guys wait for recall, doh where practical, and grandfathering everywhere else. It doesn’t have to be that hard.

Flame on. I’ll be back in a few months and will enjoy the show with popcorn from the sidelines.

Good luck to all!
Interesting perspective.

You really think they'd have DOH merger with Jazz in 2025, when they've just established their payscales to 2035? Why would the cost certainty disappear?
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tom
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Re: Transat revenues drop by 99%, with 2,000 layoffs expected

Post by tom »

Funny we compare AC and TS as equivalent :?: :?: :rolleyes:
If it's the same why pilot come to AC:?: :?:
It's not what we call a step up :oops: :oops:
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FL320
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Re: Transat revenues drop by 99%, with 2,000 layoffs expected

Post by FL320 »

tom wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:03 pm Funny we compare AC and TS as equivalent :?: :?: :rolleyes:
If it's the same why pilot come to AC:?: :?:
It's not what we call a step up :oops: :oops:
I think it’s the Facebook effect but once it’s gone; you can be working at green/red/blue..you remain a slave (this is where it’s equivalent).
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throwaway123
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Re: Transat revenues drop by 99%, with 2,000 layoffs expected

Post by throwaway123 »

GATRKGA wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:36 pm

My opinion?

Bailout before April 19
Transat acquired by AC.
Alpa representation vote wins after the merger
Alpa in house at jazz and ac
Common employer by 2025
Jazz DOH merger and buyout of senior guys to protect widebody captains at AC
Flat pay removed at AC because ts CUMULATIVE years salary is superior the first 7 years. Win for Junior Ac pilots considering about 50% of positions are less than 6 years in at TS? Take the 50% on in the junior ranks, and remove flat pay? Not bad right? Ts pilots win with other segments of ac ca where ts stands to gain. At the expense of the loss in lifestyle that you had at ts. Win some lose some. I don’t think ac pilots will ever truly understand how lucrative the lifestyle was at ts. Yes even at expense of not making 300k as a year 12 guy. Settle for 260 and work 350 hours a year? With the majority layover being 48-72 hrs in those ranks? Pretty sweet.


L oh Fucking L
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throwaway123
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Re: Transat revenues drop by 99%, with 2,000 layoffs expected

Post by throwaway123 »

altiplano wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:28 am Image
Clearly.
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Re: Transat revenues drop by 99%, with 2,000 layoffs expected

Post by throwaway123 »

FL030 wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:56 am Most people I know at AC would not consider 72 hour layover to be a lucrative lifestyle. It's work. They'd rather be home with their families and playing with their toys. Maybe some of the young ex-Jazz guys would like it. You know, the ones that can barely get through training but you think are going to be DOH merged into Mainline Air Canada.
72 no, but less 22-24 hour layovers overseas... yes.

Personally I would like between 26-32. That gives a true 24 hours OFF at your layover. All these short sub 24 hour layovers in Asia and Europe get tiring after a while especially when you have delays inbound and your layover gets cut.
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GATRKGA
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Re: Transat revenues drop by 99%, with 2,000 layoffs expected

Post by GATRKGA »

throwaway123 wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 2:00 am
GATRKGA wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:36 pm

My opinion?

Bailout before April 19
Transat acquired by AC.
Alpa representation vote wins after the merger
Alpa in house at jazz and ac
Common employer by 2025
Jazz DOH merger and buyout of senior guys to protect widebody captains at AC
Flat pay removed at AC because ts CUMULATIVE years salary is superior the first 7 years. Win for Junior Ac pilots considering about 50% of positions are less than 6 years in at TS? Take the 50% on in the junior ranks, and remove flat pay? Not bad right? Ts pilots win with other segments of ac ca where ts stands to gain. At the expense of the loss in lifestyle that you had at ts. Win some lose some. I don’t think ac pilots will ever truly understand how lucrative the lifestyle was at ts. Yes even at expense of not making 300k as a year 12 guy. Settle for 260 and work 350 hours a year? With the majority layover being 48-72 hrs in those ranks? Pretty sweet.


L oh Fucking L
I know, I chuckled at that too as I typed it. I had to put it in to see if anyone would catch the sarcasm. Good Job, lol.

While I don't think DOH, I wouldn't be surprised if there is a Jazz/Ac consolidation somewhere down the line if ALPA represents AC pilots eventually. ALPA pilots at both carriers, both Express/AC are AC flights, why should the activity remain separate? Wouldn't AC pilots benefit if all AC flying was done in-house? It was like so about 20 years ago, so why won't it be like that in the future? I'd be curious what you guys think.

Let's see what happens.
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JoeyBarton
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Re: Transat revenues drop by 99%, with 2,000 layoffs expected

Post by JoeyBarton »

I don't think we will see alpa at ac in the near future. It's constantly talked about, but I'd say rather unlikely. Especially with alpa's tendency to be bringing DOH in every deal. That alone would deter any acpa pilot from going to alpa.
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Re: Transat revenues drop by 99%, with 2,000 layoffs expected

Post by jpilot77 »

GATRKGA wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:43 am
throwaway123 wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 2:00 am
GATRKGA wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:36 pm

My opinion?

Bailout before April 19
Transat acquired by AC.
Alpa representation vote wins after the merger
Alpa in house at jazz and ac
Common employer by 2025
Jazz DOH merger and buyout of senior guys to protect widebody captains at AC
Flat pay removed at AC because ts CUMULATIVE years salary is superior the first 7 years. Win for Junior Ac pilots considering about 50% of positions are less than 6 years in at TS? Take the 50% on in the junior ranks, and remove flat pay? Not bad right? Ts pilots win with other segments of ac ca where ts stands to gain. At the expense of the loss in lifestyle that you had at ts. Win some lose some. I don’t think ac pilots will ever truly understand how lucrative the lifestyle was at ts. Yes even at expense of not making 300k as a year 12 guy. Settle for 260 and work 350 hours a year? With the majority layover being 48-72 hrs in those ranks? Pretty sweet.


L oh Fucking L
I know, I chuckled at that too as I typed it. I had to put it in to see if anyone would catch the sarcasm. Good Job, lol.

While I don't think DOH, I wouldn't be surprised if there is a Jazz/Ac consolidation somewhere down the line if ALPA represents AC pilots eventually. ALPA pilots at both carriers, both Express/AC are AC flights, why should the activity remain separate? Wouldn't AC pilots benefit if all AC flying was done in-house? It was like so about 20 years ago, so why won't it be like that in the future? I'd be curious what you guys think.

Let's see what happens.

It’s AC decision if it wants to consolidate Jazz, not the pilots.
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rudder
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Re: Transat revenues drop by 99%, with 2,000 layoffs expected

Post by rudder »

I would focus on the big picture, not some hypothetical.

It took MR about a nanosecond after the departure of CR to terminate the Skyregional CPA. He did it because he thought it was in the financial best interest of AC and had no personal allegiance to the prior business arrangement.

I would expect that pattern of decision making to continue.
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simply_no_one
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Re: Transat revenues drop by 99%, with 2,000 layoffs expected

Post by simply_no_one »

GATRKGA wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:43 am
throwaway123 wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 2:00 am
GATRKGA wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:36 pm

My opinion?

Bailout before April 19
Transat acquired by AC.
Alpa representation vote wins after the merger
Alpa in house at jazz and ac
Common employer by 2025
Jazz DOH merger and buyout of senior guys to protect widebody captains at AC
Flat pay removed at AC because ts CUMULATIVE years salary is superior the first 7 years. Win for Junior Ac pilots considering about 50% of positions are less than 6 years in at TS? Take the 50% on in the junior ranks, and remove flat pay? Not bad right? Ts pilots win with other segments of ac ca where ts stands to gain. At the expense of the loss in lifestyle that you had at ts. Win some lose some. I don’t think ac pilots will ever truly understand how lucrative the lifestyle was at ts. Yes even at expense of not making 300k as a year 12 guy. Settle for 260 and work 350 hours a year? With the majority layover being 48-72 hrs in those ranks? Pretty sweet.


L oh Fucking L
I know, I chuckled at that too as I typed it. I had to put it in to see if anyone would catch the sarcasm. Good Job, lol.

While I don't think DOH, I wouldn't be surprised if there is a Jazz/Ac consolidation somewhere down the line if ALPA represents AC pilots eventually. ALPA pilots at both carriers, both Express/AC are AC flights, why should the activity remain separate? Wouldn't AC pilots benefit if all AC flying was done in-house? It was like so about 20 years ago, so why won't it be like that in the future? I'd be curious what you guys think.

Let's see what happens.
The only way regional pilots will ever end up on the AC seniority list is BOTL.
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Re: Transat revenues drop by 99%, with 2,000 layoffs expected

Post by GATRKGA »

simply_no_one wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:38 pm
GATRKGA wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:43 am
throwaway123 wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 2:00 am

L oh Fucking L
I know, I chuckled at that too as I typed it. I had to put it in to see if anyone would catch the sarcasm. Good Job, lol.

While I don't think DOH, I wouldn't be surprised if there is a Jazz/Ac consolidation somewhere down the line if ALPA represents AC pilots eventually. ALPA pilots at both carriers, both Express/AC are AC flights, why should the activity remain separate? Wouldn't AC pilots benefit if all AC flying was done in-house? It was like so about 20 years ago, so why won't it be like that in the future? I'd be curious what you guys think.

Let's see what happens.
The only way regional pilots will ever end up on the AC seniority list is BOTL.
Like all the Canadian regional pilots, right?
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altiplano
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Re: Transat revenues drop by 99%, with 2,000 layoffs expected

Post by altiplano »

That's not accurate. They were Canadian Pilots. Guys at Canadian Regional went to what became Jazz, and of they came to AC they went BOTL.
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rudder
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Re: Transat revenues drop by 99%, with 2,000 layoffs expected

Post by rudder »

rudder wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:17 am I would focus on the big picture, not some hypothetical.

It took MR about a nanosecond after the departure of CR to terminate the Skyregional CPA. He did it because he thought it was in the financial best interest of AC and had no personal allegiance to the prior business arrangement.

I would expect that pattern of decision making to continue.
That didn’t take MR long. He is on a roll. Looks like the CR era is definitely over.

“ After careful consideration, Air Canada has concluded that providing additional, onerous remedies, which may still not secure an EC approval, would significantly compromise Air Canada's ability to compete internationally, negatively impacting customers, other stakeholders and future prospects as it recovers and rebuilds from the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic. Especially in this challenging environment, it is essential that Air Canada focus on creating the optimal conditions for its full recovery by preserving and leveraging all of its key strengths and assets including its strong employee culture.”
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Re: Transat revenues drop by 99%, with 2,000 layoffs expected

Post by RRJetPilot »

GATRKGA wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:36 pm Everyone has a version they want this to go. I prefer to stay separate, as I think AC has an interesting road to recovery as is because of the 60% business diversity the company is vested in. The pilot group seems more bitter than ever, I can’t imagine those conversations being pleasant in the flight deck with the @#$! show going on with ACPA. Pretty sure every guy junior guy will vote alpa just out of spite.

My opinion?

Bailout before April 19
Transat acquired by AC.
Alpa representation vote wins after the merger
Alpa in house at jazz and ac
Common employer by 2025
Jazz DOH merger and buyout of senior guys to protect widebody captains at AC
Flat pay removed at AC because ts CUMULATIVE years salary is superior the first 7 years. Win for Junior Ac pilots considering about 50% of positions are less than 6 years in at TS? Take the 50% on in the junior ranks, and remove flat pay? Not bad right? Ts pilots win with other segments of ac ca where ts stands to gain. At the expense of the loss in lifestyle that you had at ts. Win some lose some. I don’t think ac pilots will ever truly understand how lucrative the lifestyle was at ts. Yes even at expense of not making 300k as a year 12 guy. Settle for 260 and work 350 hours a year? With the majority layover being 48-72 hrs in those ranks? Pretty sweet.


My reason for the transaction happening?

1. Ac would have already walked away, so there clearly exists something they want out of the deal. And it’s not From the Eu side. It’s bailout related and something along the lines of having the government fund enough to pay for the transaction “to preserve Quebec jobs” québécois victim story 101 being saved by the great Trudeau! Then baam, election?
2. You don’t want ts/wj to dominate transatlantic market while your 767’s are busy doing lucrative cargo. Do you really want to give that market to wj/ts after fighting tooth and nail for it since 2010? Do you really reconvert the profitable 67’s doing cargo back to passenger just to kill transat, do we really want to go down that failure of a road again? May as well own the airline and the balance sheet that goes with it. Ts still has a cash surplus which is why they can finance the secured loans. Doesn’t mean it has to be used. Even if 500m is used, they have a cash surplus. AC still walks away a winner. Don’t forget something, Canadian banks do not arbitrarily just finance a “failing” airline out of the kindness of their heart. There exists merit and many plan b’s and c’s to leverage a company like transat with a secured loan product. For instance, let’s not forget a stock financing or convertible debentures available to them if shit gets real. It hasn’t and it won’t. Why? If the ts transaction goes through, you have $7 something equivalent price point? Very easy to finance a $5 equivalent (~$15 dilutive Ac shares) if needed.
3. The collective ac/ts group comes out stronger post 2024 than they would separate.
4. Decide how many active ac and ts pilots during merger. Merge doh. Recall all laid off AC guys first, get everyone a bonus while laid off ts guys wait for recall, doh where practical, and grandfathering everywhere else. It doesn’t have to be that hard.

Flame on. I’ll be back in a few months and will enjoy the show with popcorn from the sidelines.

Good luck to all!
Well this didn't age well. Any comment?
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rudder
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Re: Transat revenues drop by 99%, with 2,000 layoffs expected

Post by rudder »

MR doesn’t suffer from shiny airplane syndrome. And I don’t think that he cares about the ‘Conquistadores del Cielo’ club.

He is a dollars and cents CEO. And he is trying to keep his company out of CCAA. Meanwhile, governments and regulators are handing him shopping lists of their ‘wants’.

AC has been able to go to both the capital and debt markets to shore up liquidity. And on terms that it can live with.

MR will focus on AC. And now JME can focus on TRZ.
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