Countries better than Canada for flying?

[tsgas]

I probably make more than you but keep spending your free time thinking about politicians and trolling people for fun.

Sure kid , you make a fortune on your allowance because of your Phd , Papa Has Dough !!!!!!!!!

It's funny have wrong you are at this point. Keep having people live in your head rent free

EDITED Strike one.

[Panama Jack]

They're still letting the Aussies and a few others fly on their visas in the US. It represents a problem for unemployed US citizen pilots because they are essentially a foreigner taking up what should be job slots for Americans, not unlike the Sunwing TFW thing. I know of one airline that has almost 50 of them, and they won't go home. The Aussies use a Labor Condition Application, which doesn't require the employer to prove that US citizens are available to do the job, only that their employment won't affect that of their colleagues...But that is a false concept because the only work that the Aussies can do is in the US. They will be the first to agree to sink working conditions because of desperation. The unions really couldn't foresee it-OTOH the unions failed to produce "go home" language at every carrier that has hired the Aussies.

The Aussie thing isn’t specific to pilots. It was a bi-product of the Australia-US Free Trade Agreement that allowed for a reciprocal non-immigrant work visa agreement.

On what basis would the unions be able to discriminate against a nationality (of foreigners in general) that has the legal right to work in the United States? Besides, these employees are dues paying members of the same union with seniority numbers just like all the other pilots.

[redlaser]

Did anyone mention MEXICO, after southern Ontario, Western Canada is the worst because of the weather, and Europe because of the price,

[“”Bob””]

I hear Colombia is pretty good too.

[OneYonge]

Some people overestimate their value. FYI you are not the center of the Universe.

What they overestimate is labour market demand.

The general cost of flight training inflates the perceived value of said training...

especially when you are in a situation where the consumer demand for flight training overwhelmingly exceeds actual labour demand for workers who've finished the training.

The job market is based on Supply and Demand.

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

What they overestimate is labour market demand.

The general cost of flight training inflates the perceived value of said training...

especially when you are in a situation where the consumer demand for flight training overwhelmingly exceeds actual labour demand for workers who've finished the training.

The job market is based on Supply and Demand.

+1

[DadoBlade]

redlaser said "...Western Canada has the worst weather". During WW.II, the majority of BCATP training bases were located in Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba because of more VFR weather conditions than the rest of Canada. The RCAF's present training base in in Saskatchewan.

[HSH17]

So have you finished your flying lessons yet? The last time I replied to you you were crying about giving up and how hard it was and how hard done by you are. Has this situation changed?

So are you a pilot looking for work seriously; or a troll looking for the easiest least amount of work path to a flying job?

I would suggest applying yourself with some work ethic. Hellian was right in his advice.

You in a forum of pilots with thousands of hours who have lost carriers because of this COVID clusterfuck and you’re crying poor me looking for the easy way? How easy do you think it is to emigrate? Have you even looked at this?

Do you honestly think that you have it harder than anyone else has had it, on here?
Maybe look up Piloty on here if you want to learn what a good attitude seems to be. He’s (she) gonna be successful I would guess just from from the way he (she)presents himself (herself) in writing. To be successful you should emulate successful people


I think maybe you should just apply yourself do the hard work and maybe just maybe, someone my see your stellar potential and let you work loading freight and fuelling planes after several hours perhaps years of doing this you might get the opportunity to fly a plane or two. As far as I can see this is how a lot of people have got to where they are today. Not everyone gets to start at the top as you seem to think that you’re entitled to. Everyone has had it hard. Every generation thinks it is so special, yours especially(whatever it is)

You sound like a bitter boomer who’s never had to spend 50% of their monthly income on a crappy apartment. Stop talking down to someone who’s brought up valid points. It’s really annoying seeing older people act like they’re smarter just because they’re mad they had to work the ramp for years before sitting right seat in a clapped out Navajo.

[HSH17]

I think it's idiotic people sign their lives away for years for a MAYBE that most of the time doesn't actually lead to anything, and even if it works out leads to a role that's criminally underpaid. You know what's a great way to improve the world record low pay we have? More people saying NO!

Agreed, these geriatrics that run these toilet operators need some pushback, but it only takes one bottom feeders to offer to work for free or better yet to PAY to fly revenue to spoil it for the rest. Both of which I have seen personally done in my career from rich spawn I was competing with. This industry is in disgusting shape and needs some kind of entity to enforce wages like the red seal world.

I shake my head reading this forum sometimes.

To put it in perspective, this hasn’t changed much, at least in the 35 years I have been in this industry. I started at a regional for $1800/mth which equates to about $3500 today. Pretty similar, if not less than the stating wages now. And no I could not afford to buy a house at base with those wages either. Nor did I expect to on an entry level wage.

The difference between then and now is I and others that joined the industry and then Air BC, Time Air, OEL, Air Ontario, air Nova, PWA, CP, AC etc. with significantly more experience than those today, we knew the deal and accepted the conditions for a payoff years done the road. And it has paid off handsomely for me in both pay and lifestyle. Those joining the industry today don’t seem to have the same patience.

If you’re not willing to ‘pay your dues’ so to speak, you will have difficulty getting ahead in any industry. Aviation, a trade or anywhere else. That’s life so get on with it and quit whining about it. If you don’t have the stomach to weather the ups and downs in aviation, and there will be many in a career, go do something else. Don’t think life won’t throw you a few curveballs in another career either.

Some will write this off a ‘Boomer rant’, but it’s reality

100% a boomer rant. Notice how you’re talking about not being able to afford a house? All of us late millennials/gen z can’t even afford rent. Reality’s different now

[Bug_Stomper_01]

Agreed, these geriatrics that run these toilet operators need some pushback, but it only takes one bottom feeders to offer to work for free or better yet to PAY to fly revenue to spoil it for the rest. Both of which I have seen personally done in my career from rich spawn I was competing with. This industry is in disgusting shape and needs some kind of entity to enforce wages like the red seal world.

I shake my head reading this forum sometimes.

To put it in perspective, this hasn’t changed much, at least in the 35 years I have been in this industry. I started at a regional for $1800/mth which equates to about $3500 today. Pretty similar, if not less than the stating wages now. And no I could not afford to buy a house at base with those wages either. Nor did I expect to on an entry level wage.

The difference between then and now is I and others that joined the industry and then Air BC, Time Air, OEL, Air Ontario, air Nova, PWA, CP, AC etc. with significantly more experience than those today, we knew the deal and accepted the conditions for a payoff years done the road. And it has paid off handsomely for me in both pay and lifestyle. Those joining the industry today don’t seem to have the same patience.

If you’re not willing to ‘pay your dues’ so to speak, you will have difficulty getting ahead in any industry. Aviation, a trade or anywhere else. That’s life so get on with it and quit whining about it. If you don’t have the stomach to weather the ups and downs in aviation, and there will be many in a career, go do something else. Don’t think life won’t throw you a few curveballs in another career either.

Some will write this off a ‘Boomer rant’, but it’s reality

100% a boomer rant. Notice how you’re talking about not being able to afford a house? All of us late millennials/gen z can’t even afford rent. Reality’s different now

It’s disgusting, some of these old farts live in trailer parks, dry and wet docked boats, employers hangars or even personal vehicles too afford to live at these wages (I can’t make this stuff up and all I can cite names which for respect I won’t).

Ya talking about living with garbage, working your tail off for years and barely creeping ahead in wage or likely taking hits from paying for training etc and it “paying dividends” pfffff. This guy drank the coolaide and if he doesn’t know he wasted his life in this trade then he’s so sick he doesn’t even realize it (or in denial).
Anyone with any wherewithal either got out while it was good or is on the way out. Contract and keep your licence current that’s all I’d advise.
Look at wages right now, they’re so low it makes more sense to stay on EI or flip burgers.
The sad reality is that these operators pray on middle of the road intelligent and or mentally ill / desperate naive individuals to fill these roles and pump them with industry brewed BS (Coolaide) and recycle their (type training) for decades then punt them when they’re too old or dead.
Canadas Airmen don’t retire, most can’t afford to, they work till they’re dead. I know one that lives in a non house condition aforementioned that said he was almost retired over ten years ago. Same guy messaged me out of the blue after years of silence (likely looking for a line on work) spun the same crap. “Almost retired” over a decade later. The guy has been working for almost 50 years, it makes me sad but these people do it to themselves. Anyways I digress I could go on and on but it’s all the same and will never change. Take your training and knowledge and work for yourself or get out of the industry or both. The disease this industry has spawned (not COVID-19) is incurable with current supply and demand as well as our lack of industry support from all agencies involved that can stop this.

END RANT

[Julian.B]

I am willing to argue that Canada is one of the worst place in the world to have a career as a pilot. Why may you ask?

1. Canadian pilots normally have to pay for their school, which leaves them with huge debt, compared to other countries that offer paid training "Ab Initio Training", guaranteed employment, etc.

2. Good career opportunities are few

3. Pay is probably the lowest in the world, when you factor salary / cost of living. Pension is available to but a few select companies.

4. This is a bit of a "meh", but some people care about variety of flying, destinations, etc. Very few Canadian pilots actually get to enjoy a truly "international experience", flying overseas, experiencing foreign cultures, etc.

5. Fatigue rules are still completely outdated, even with the "new and improved" legislation.

6. Unions don't really have power to do anything.

There are two good things:

1. For the most part, you're treated fairly, especially at larger airlines. Nepotism is not that prevalent.
2. The laws protect pilots in some extent. You won't go to jail unless you deliberately do something really bad.

[digits_]

I am willing to argue that Canada is one of the worst place in the world to have a career as a pilot. Why may you ask?

1. Canadian pilots normally have to pay for their school, which leaves them with huge debt, compared to other countries that offer paid training "Ab Initio Training", guaranteed employment, etc.

2. Good career opportunities are few

3. Pay is probably the lowest in the world, when you factor salary / cost of living. Pension is available to but a few select companies.

4. This is a bit of a "meh", but some people care about variety of flying, destinations, etc. Very few Canadian pilots actually get to enjoy a truly "international experience", flying overseas, experiencing foreign cultures, etc.

5. Fatigue rules are still completely outdated, even with the "new and improved" legislation.

6. Unions don't really have power to do anything.

Have you flown/tried to fly in some other countries? Even 5 years ago the US was a much worse place to fly than it is now. I remember documentaries about pilots living at trailers at the airport.

Let's assume the pre covid situation:
1. Most pilots in the world pay for their own training. There are a few sponsorship programs, but they are rare and competition is high. The majority of us currently flying commercially, would not have been if all training in Canada was done via that system. You could argue that would be good or bad. It would be seriously different for sure.
2. Are you kidding? To have a career, you need to start out somewhere. Canada has a gigantic amount of 200 hour pilot jobs compared to other countries. They might not be as glamourous, but they are there. When starting out, you still have the rose colored glasses on and the flying is usually considered fun.
3. Live away from the cities. The issue there is cost of living in the cities. People in rural Canada will be much happier with their wage. More is always better, but you can have a pretty good life on a pilot salary.
4. Every job becomes routine after a while. The international experience soon turns into a daily fight against custom agents, paperwork, dietary discomfort etc. You have the option to choose a different flying life style, plenty of options in Canada!
5. Yup. But don't underestimate the creativity of the operators with more strict fatigue rules. If operators in Canada today would apply the rules as intended, we would already be better off.
6. They have quite a bit of power, but they can't (successfully) fight the market. You can also work at a non union company if you so wish.

[ShamrockPilot]

I am willing to argue that Canada is one of the worst place in the world to have a career as a pilot. Why may you ask?

1. Canadian pilots normally have to pay for their school, which leaves them with huge debt, compared to other countries that offer paid training "Ab Initio Training", guaranteed employment, etc.

2. Good career opportunities are few

3. Pay is probably the lowest in the world, when you factor salary / cost of living. Pension is available to but a few select companies.

4. This is a bit of a "meh", but some people care about variety of flying, destinations, etc. Very few Canadian pilots actually get to enjoy a truly "international experience", flying overseas, experiencing foreign cultures, etc.

5. Fatigue rules are still completely outdated, even with the "new and improved" legislation.

6. Unions don't really have power to do anything.

There are two good things:

1. For the most part, you're treated fairly, especially at larger airlines. Nepotism is not that prevalent.
2. The laws protect pilots in some extent. You won't go to jail unless you deliberately do something really bad.

+1

That being said we do have among the least expensive flight training in the world. The price we pay is living in the middle of nowhere flying tin cans, following regulations that would be illegal in almost any other country, until we are fortunate enough to get to a regional or go corporate.
Whereas in, say Europe, they’re straight into a 737 with a stable and much more exciting lifestyle in actual civilization. Again, they paid for that type rating though. Or it comes off their paycheque for a few years.

Too bad the conversion is such a headache.

[Julian.B]

@digits_
Well that mindset is what brought the current state of Canadian aviation, where a CRJ F/O makes $38K a year and a WB F/O or RP makes $55K a year. You're making excuses and trying to bend reality to justify your decisions. Don't defend it. There's nothing to be defended here. The Canadian aviation industry is pretty crap compared to the rest of the world. Clearly you haven't lived and worked elsewhere. It's pretty sad to think that flying a 737 for the rest of your life is considered "TOP JOB" by some here. Anyway, no point discussing this with people like you, because you don't get it, because "You don't know what you don't know".

@ShamrockPilot
Paying for your own type rating is crap, but once that's done, you're flying a real plane to really nice places. In a sense you're "paying for your type rating" here as well. The low salary of a Dash or RJ F/O speaks for itself. If there is a real advantage, in Canada is that the workplaces still treats you fairly. If you have an issue, your union backs you up, they can't just can you for no reason, etc. (Most places).

In the end OVERALL, working in Europe as a pilot is superior to Canada IN EVERY SHAPE AND FORM. I would do it if I had that option, but I don't. I made the best of what this life (and my career) offered me. It's not bad, but since we're on the this topic "Countries better than Canada for flying?", I'd say ALMOST ALL.

[newlygrounded]

@digits_
Well that mindset is what brought the current state of Canadian aviation, where a CRJ F/O makes $38K a year and a WB F/O or RP makes $55K a year. You're making excuses and trying to bend reality to justify your decisions. Don't defend it. There's nothing to be defended here. The Canadian aviation industry is pretty crap compared to the rest of the world. Clearly you haven't lived and worked elsewhere. It's pretty sad to think that flying a 737 for the rest of your life is considered "TOP JOB" by some here. Anyway, no point discussing this with people like you, because you don't get it, because "You don't know what you don't know".

@ShamrockPilot
Paying for your own type rating is crap, but once that's done, you're flying a real plane to really nice places. In a sense you're "paying for your type rating" here as well. The low salary of a Dash or RJ F/O speaks for itself. If there is a real advantage, in Canada is that the workplaces still treats you fairly. If you have an issue, your union backs you up, they can't just can you for no reason, etc. (Most places).

In the end OVERALL, working in Europe as a pilot is superior to Canada IN EVERY SHAPE AND FORM. I would do it if I had that option, but I don't. I made the best of what this life (and my career) offered me. It's not bad, but since we're on the this topic "Countries better than Canada for flying?", I'd say ALMOST ALL.

You're not getting it! I'd rather pay with my youth, and live in a shithole than sign a $40k bond for a type rating and get a great job out of flight school.

[Julian.B]

"You're not getting it! I'd rather pay with my youth, and live in a shithole than sign a $40k bond for a type rating and get a great job out of flight school."

Holly shit. Really? Your life is less important than 40K? You rather live in Thomson MB during your young years than fly a 737 to Athens, Palma de Mallorca or Warsaw? **** me. Once you get to the airlines, use those passes and travel the world buddy. Live your life. This country is as exciting as watching paint dry.

[digits_]

In the end OVERALL, working in Europe as a pilot is superior to Canada IN EVERY SHAPE AND FORM. I would do it if I had that option, but I don't. I made the best of what this life (and my career) offered me. It's not bad, but since we're on the this topic "Countries better than Canada for flying?", I'd say ALMOST ALL.

I've written it here before, but I'll repeat it once more because it is a crucial factor to any comparison you make. Let's assume for argument's sake it is superior in every shape and form, the chances of actually getting that job in Europe is way smaller than getting a pilot job in Canada.

The quality of a flying career in Europe might be better for some/most, but the chances of actually getting a flying career are much higher in Canada.

Getting in a 737 or whatever airline type that tickles yoru fancy, right out of flying school is an option most students would kill for. However, be careful what you wish for. By the time they have gathered 1000 hours, a lot of them start getting bored pretty quickly. As that is also the job you will be doing for the rest of your life. You'll find a lot of European pilots complain about the same stuff we do.

In Canada, it's perfectly possible to start out in the bush, when it starts getting boring, you fly some medevac, maybe switch over to corporate or regionals, then fly the international stuff, only to find out you wish you didn't leave your previous jobs, because the timezones are killing your body.

An aviation career in Canada can be one of the most versatile on the planet if you choose it to be so. Don't get stuck on just comparing the airline portion of it.

[‘Bob’]

I am willing to argue that Canada is one of the worst place in the world to have a career as a pilot. Why may you ask?

1. Canadian pilots normally have to pay for their school, which leaves them with huge debt, compared to other countries that offer paid training "Ab Initio Training", guaranteed employment, etc.

2. Good career opportunities are few

3. Pay is probably the lowest in the world, when you factor salary / cost of living. Pension is available to but a few select companies.

4. This is a bit of a "meh", but some people care about variety of flying, destinations, etc. Very few Canadian pilots actually get to enjoy a truly "international experience", flying overseas, experiencing foreign cultures, etc.

5. Fatigue rules are still completely outdated, even with the "new and improved" legislation.

6. Unions don't really have power to do anything.

There are two good things:

1. For the most part, you're treated fairly, especially at larger airlines. Nepotism is not that prevalent.
2. The laws protect pilots in some extent. You won't go to jail unless you deliberately do something really bad.

Sounds like you have your mind made up.

Bye.

[Julian.B]

Sounds like you have your mind made up.

Bye.
[/quote]

Okay "Billy Bob". I see your point "You don't like,***ing leave".

Boy, some Canadians are just as narcissistic and self absorbed as some Americans. For whatever ****ed up reason you think that anything "Canadian" is better than the rest of the world. It's a pretty narrow minded and uneducated stance you're putting up here. It not only shows a lack of education on your part, but also a life lived in a bubble, completely ignorant of the world around you.

Hey, Canadian Bob. You have a great passport. Use it. Go and see the world once this pandemic is over. Maybe it'll open up your mind.

[DirtyDashDriver]

To the OP:

1. I've obtained licences in four countries and each required their pilots to pay for their training. Yes, there are a few where pilots get subsidized, but I'd rather better wages and conditions than subsidized training.

2. Good career opportunities are few if you stay within 100km of a major centre, yes. That's because they're mostly going to be corporate or airline-type jobs that require over 5,000 hours. In non-COVID times, there are a lot of jobs in the Northern parts of any province or in the territories where you get into the bush. Those are the fun jobs. Fun is doing esker work in a Twin Otter, flying at 500 feet over the tundra and picking your way lake-by-lake. Flying a Challenger or 737 at FL350 sounds fun, but it gets old, quick. Jump in a car and do the cross-country road trip. It's a great way to find that first fun flying job.

3. Agreed, but again pay is relative. $100k in Toronto doesn't go far. That same $100k outside of Calgary goes a little further. $100k in Pickle Lake or Yellowknife and you're playing with all the toys.

4. Paris is just a hotel after a while and foreign cultures become just another a$$hole trying to screw you out of money. I used to hate going to Conklin or Horizon, Ekati or Diavik over and over again when I worked for a few charter companies, then I came to the airlines, got to go to bright, flashy cities and then kept going to those bright, flashy cities. Variety might be the spice of life, but just because you cross a border doesn't make things interesting. What is more interesting to me than crossing an ocean is flying from Vancouver to Toronto with stops along the way on a clear day - ocean, mountains, plains, lakes, forests - that beats the hell out of flying over water for hours on end.

5. Yep. And yet every new pilot will climb over the rotting corpse of the pilot before them just to get their first job, willing to work well beyond those fatigue rules and at reduced wages, so it will stop only when the younger pilots are no longer willing to do what us middle-aged and older guys did. But I love flying. It's all I want to do. I've never wanted to anything but. No one loves flying as much as I do. If I'm not at AC by the time I'm 25 I'm a failure in life. I'll fuel the airplane for free if you let me fly for a few hours. Sound familiar? Yeah, change that attitude and don't apply to the type of company that breaks the fatigue rules, and you might actually change something. Know your worth.

6. Unions are a product of their membership and they only have teeth when the membership is willing to do something. Look back to the '30s to '50s. The union said to strike and the members asked how long only once they were already on the picket line. Forced back to work by the government? Hell no, arrest us all they'd say. Look at the membership now. The union says to strike and often a sizeable minority or slight majority say "but my pay, my kids" and vote no. You want a strong union, then fight with them. I'm not suggesting to go turn over cars and set them alight, but you have to do more than sit on your behind on the couch hoping the MEC or LEC will do everything for you.

To Julian.B

It's pretty sad to think that flying a 737 for the rest of your life is considered "TOP JOB" by some here

Lot's of places I've worked around the world, flying a 737 or A320 is the top job. It's mostly a North American viewpoint that larger planes are a status symbol. Lots of guys I used to work with in Australia and New Zealand were happier when they got onto the smaller jets than they ever were flying the big stuff. Sure, they might be working a few days more, but they were not dead in bed from jet lag all the time. Besides, the difference between $200k and $300k is not much once the tax man is done with you.

[Julian.B]

I see your logic and I agree with a few points you make.

1. Getting your license in Canada is much easier than in Europe.
a). It’s cheaper
b). Exams are actually a joke compared to the EASA ATPL exams.

The reality is, if you’re a mediocre individual with a bit of skill and determination you can become an airline pilot. After all, unlike Europeans, Canadians think being a pilot is equal to being a plumber. We’re not exactly rocket scientists, but I’m not a “bus driver” either.

Canada offers a bit more hands on approach to flying. The experience level here compared to Europe is much better, however does that translate to safer skies? Apparently not. Let’s look at Air Canada’s “hard landing” in Halifax and the SFO incident that almost caused the biggest aviation disaster in the history of aviation. Westjet also came close to putting on in the drink in St. Maarten. Why am I mentioning this? Because we, Canadian pilots (and I’m part of that group) believe that somehow, our experience flying in the bush automatically makes us better than the rest of the world.

Now let’s get to the actual topic at hand. “Countries better than Canada for flying?” That depends on the individual. For someone like me, being an airline pilot is about traveling the world and experiencing new things. Like you said, flying eventually gets boring, regardless of what machine you’re on.

I speak for myself. “DirtDashDriver” in the post above has the exact opposite view of what he values as a pilot.

I can’t think of a more boring job than flying a regional, in Canada, to all the small communities like Bathurst, Sept Ille, Sudbury, Timmins, Windsor, Thunder Bay, Brandon, Regina, Saskatoon (although they’re bigger cities), Lethbridge, Grand Prairie, Fort Mac, etc. I won’t even get into “gems” like Thompson, North Battleford, La Ronge, Moosonee, etc. I’ve done my fair share of them. With that being said, the only good part about it is that you’re not doing red eyes or crossing 8 time zones, destroying your body. Airlines in Europe offer a much more exciting variety of flying. You could be flying from UK to Spain, then to Croatia then to Denmark. Layovers are more exciting, not to mention the options to eat and drink (like real coffee, not Tim Hortons radiator fluid).

But IF “everything gets boring” after a while, let’s look at the real deal: MONEY and vacation. I honestly don’t know a single pilot where I work that can afford a house in Toronto or Vancouver. It’s important to mention that, because that’s where the majority of good flying is in Canada. Montreal is a bit different, but not by much. Pilots in Europe, even F/Os make significantly more money, especially when you factor in cost of living. Even low cost carriers, such as Easyjet pay more money than Westjet and in some cases Air Canada. But I shouldn’t have to compare Easyjet to AC. I should compare AC to British Airways, Lufthansa, KLM, Iberia, Scandinavian Airlines and Aeroflot. (Yes, Aeroflot pilots are paid very well). Vacation in Europe is by default better than anything Canada has to offer. Anyone that knows anything about that will attest to what I said.

Anyway. I’ve said enough.

[mmm..bacon]

Sounds like you have your mind made up.

Bye.

Okay "Billy Bob". I see your point "You don't like,***ing leave".

Boy, some Canadians are just as narcissistic and self absorbed as some Americans. For whatever ****ed up reason you think that anything "Canadian" is better than the rest of the world. It's a pretty narrow minded and uneducated stance you're putting up here. It not only shows a lack of education on your part, but also a life lived in a bubble, completely ignorant of the world around you.

Hey, Canadian Bob. You have a great passport. Use it. Go and see the world once this pandemic is over. Maybe it'll open up your mind.
[/quote]

I think that you start losing your argument once you nickname people, and start swearing

I'm with the versatile career people here...A few years ago, I went to Tokyo Disney (kids and wife were begging to go...) There was a great little corner of it full of ersatz versions of the 'old west': rides in a mine car, plastic indians sitting around a plastic campfire with a plastic teepee and plastic moose in the background; a plastic 'birchbark' canoe being paddled by two dudes in 'buckskin' - only, they weren't paddling it at all - it was attached to an underwater track. Point is, in my career so far, I've seen all of those things - and more - in real life. I've seen 10 miles of forest going up in flames 200' in the air; left my house for my first trip of the day and stopped early in a nearby lake for my morning shower; been down, and explored an underground mine; fished for sturgeon, and a thousand and one other things that form, for me, a source of rich memories. Now, I get to fly out of Vancouver to other BC locations - over the mountains every day that well-heeled Euros pay thousands to come and visit. I mean, I guess it would be nice to fly to Palma de Athens, or Jamaica, or a dozen other destinations - but I'd rather go there on my own time with people I care about, than be stuck there with people the airline thinks that I should be there with...

I think, at the end of the day, though, this comes down to horses for courses.

[Julian.B]

"I think, at the end of the day, though, this comes down to horses for courses".

Yes it does. What appeals to me will not appeal to others. I can't think of a better layover than having coffee in some Greek City. Others like to fly into Castlegar. Each to his own.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

I am willing to argue that Canada is one of the worst place in the world to have a career as a pilot. Why may you ask?

1. Canadian pilots normally have to pay for their school, which leaves them with huge debt, compared to other countries that offer paid training "Ab Initio Training", guaranteed employment, etc.

2. Good career opportunities are few

3. Pay is probably the lowest in the world, when you factor salary / cost of living. Pension is available to but a few select companies.

4. This is a bit of a "meh", but some people care about variety of flying, destinations, etc. Very few Canadian pilots actually get to enjoy a truly "international experience", flying overseas, experiencing foreign cultures, etc.

5. Fatigue rules are still completely outdated, even with the "new and improved" legislation.

6. Unions don't really have power to do anything.

There are two good things:

1. For the most part, you're treated fairly, especially at larger airlines. Nepotism is not that prevalent.
2. The laws protect pilots in some extent. You won't go to jail unless you deliberately do something really bad.

+1 hit a bullseye with this post.

I’m in the vtol world so my perception is a bit different but the game is the same man. 100 grand for a 100 hour license on our end only to compete with wealthy spawn and tfw’s from Europe, Australia, NZ ETC that pay to fly revenue in Canada in some instances but at the very least flying for $1600/month for years then scram back home to a real job once they hit the magic number they inflate by 40% then the next guy grabs the seat. That leaves people that intend to work and live here with their proverbial dinks in their hands for years scraping by if they don’t have mommy and daddy’s help. There’s no protection from the operators in Canada from doing this to their very employees that they “claim” earn them revenue. Its not rocket appliances this whole racket in Canada, fixed and rotary, is just a good place to clean money not legitimately generate it, foreign and domestic money alike. I can’t say Canada holds a torch to anywhere else in the world Ive worked as far as fair employment treatment.
I do however agree that it’s easier to get licensed here than most other places if you have that kind of capital. As far as nepotism on this end, it’s so thick you can cut it with a knife no matter where you go offshore, utility, corporate (thats a given), all the same BS.
We are our own worst enemies and operators know it, and use that to keep what this is at this level of garbage.

[‘Bob’]

Sounds like you have your mind made up.

Bye.

Okay "Billy Bob". I see your point "You don't like,***ing leave".

Boy, some Canadians are just as narcissistic and self absorbed as some Americans. For whatever ****ed up reason you think that anything "Canadian" is better than the rest of the world.[/quote]

Uh... no. Your posts are the ones trying to elevated yourself by putting others down... ...while at the same time screaming for validation. I’m giving it to you. Put your money where your mouth is and leave and live happily ever after. Makes absolutely no difference to me.

You see. I’m not the narcissist because I don’t need to be validated for my choices. I could have more easier than most chose to have flown in other countries. But I didn’t because the drawbacks far outweighed the benefits. You’re the narcissist because you think that your experience is exclusive—when it most definitely is not! Go into a small town hick bar and strike up a conversation and you’ll likely be floored at the education and experience levels plus the very rational reasons why they wound up where they are.

And the United Nations of immigrants that I’ve flown with over the years tend to agree with me. Nobody is dying to go back to Europe or Asia after leaving at great cost. And the only reason why expats go is to get in, get cash, and get out before a war breaks out or they get worked almost literally to death.

It's a pretty narrow minded and uneducated stance you're putting up here. It not only shows a lack of education on your part, but also a life lived in a bubble, completely ignorant of the world around you.

Hey, Canadian Bob. You have a great passport. Use it. Go and see the world once this pandemic is over. Maybe it'll open up your mind.

I’m guessing by this type of response that you are about 25 years old. You grew up with fairly well to do parents. You are very proud of your BSc that almost anyone could get and is pretty much useless. And you probably enjoyed a career progression that was unprecedented until this pandemic put the brakes on things. That’s why your responses are so emotional to such little things.

Which means I was likely traipsing around the globe when you were still a twinkle in the milkman’s eye. I’ve been to places outside of Canada that you will probably never go to, and I’ve seen things that you will never be able to see for any price, because they no longer exist.

You see. It sounds like you are trying to convince everyone else. It’s only you that needs convincing. Nobody else cares.

Enjoy Stansted for the 37th time this year...... I hear the Holiday Inn Express there is pretty good....