How bad is commuting

[flyingcanuck]

As a younger junior pilot at 705 I often think of moving to cheaper places to get lower rent and/or buy a house. Being tied to the countries most expensive cities is tough somedays.

So those that have done it, what do you think of commuting by air or perhaps a looong drive. Not worth it? Most every one who does it that I've talked to has said DONT do it.

[challenger_nami]

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You probably get a lot of conflicting answers on this topic. Some people tell you do it, others say don’t. That’s very normal: some people love to commute, some hate it.

On this forum, some users will give you advice on whether or not commute without themselves having any sorta commuting experience. And for the record, I have no experience in long distance commuting: not my thing. But I will not tell you to do it, or not.

Here is what I suggest:
If you are seriously considering buying a property in a particular area of country and then commute to work from there, I would suggest rent in that area for 1 year or so and try commuting first hand. See if you love it, or hate it.

After that 1 year, you will have a very good idea if commuting is going to work for you or not.

Good luck.

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[ant_321]

I did about the easiest commute in the country, YYZ to YUL, with a decent schedule for 6 months and absolutely hated it. I don’t know how guys do it their whole career.

[pitottubey]

I'm planning on living about an hour drive from the airport one day. I wonder is that normal for airline pilots? Personally I don't like the idea of commuting though (haven't done it).

[FOD_Vacuum]

Short answer: It was awful.

The reason being that I lived on the West Coast and commuted to Toronto so here were the cons:

The time change made early morning flights out of YYZ a living hell(all flights started early at around 6:30am so 3:30am Vancouver time).

You had to pay for a crash pad with other pilots coming and going which meant your rest was easily interrupted as this was the only affordable way to rest up. I took quite a financial hit renting out a place near Pearson.

Getting around for groceries and food was tricky without a car so Uber and car rentals really added up over time.

The stress of not getting on the flight as standby traveller before your day of flying really wasn’t peachy when passenger loads were too full or flights were cancelled. You can plan well ahead which means you lose an extra day or two at home each time you commute to work.

I was optimistic myself but quickly realized it wasn’t for me. If you have an opposite commute out West or a shorter commute, have a free place to stay with friends or relatives nearby willing to give you rides and food it may be worth it. My two cents.

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

My 'commute' is an hour or so drive on a 400 series highway.

I hate it.

Now imagine having that, plus a couple hour flight, plus the time waiting on either end, plus the uncertainty, plus the additional cost, plus the hotels or crash pad.

The best job is the job you don't need to commute to.

Although, if you were flying long haul only doing two or three pairings a month, commuting might just be an option.

[fish4life]

It depends on a lot of things, does the company you work for have good service to the city you want to work for?
You don’t want to rely on other companies because your priority will always be low and even checking loads will suck.
Are you going to live close to the airport allowing for you to spend overnights at the base you choose to live at?

In general most people commute because either their family or their partners family live in that city. With the exception of Toronto and Vancouver any cost saved on a house will be spent commuting with AIF’s, hotels etc adding up. Also not living in base will result in less ability to do OT to add some income.

[jpilot77]

I live an hour and a half north of YUL (obviously sometimes longer due to traffic), I love where I live and moving into the city to be closer to the airport is
not something for me. But some people hate a long drive. Yes sometimes it’s a drag driving up North on a Friday afternoon in heavy traffic but when I get to my place it all makes it worthwhile.

[‘Bob’]

It sucks.

15 minutes to or from the airport on a normal day. 20 minutes if it’s rush hour. I’ll duck out even earlier than I normally do to miss it when I can.

Time is the most precious commodity we have. We can’t ever make any more of it and it gets withdrawn at a slow but unrelenting pace.

If flying to another city or across the country every week and staying in a hotel or crash pad or van and eating ramen or terminal food or trying to run a USB cooler or a mini fridge to keep healthy food from rotting isn’t something you would choose spend exorbitant amounts of money to do on your free time.....


.....then you are doing time.

[pitottubey]

My 'commute' is an hour or so drive on a 400 series highway.

I hate it.

Now imagine having that, plus a couple hour flight, plus the time waiting on either end, plus the uncertainty, plus the additional cost, plus the hotels or crash pad.

The best job is the job you don't need to commute to.

Although, if you were flying long haul only doing two or three pairings a month, commuting might just be an option.

Hate a one hour commute? if you don't mind me asking but how often do you have to make that commute?

[200hr Wonder]

First off I have done several commutes in my life.

YVR-YYZ

Absolutely life destroyer bad. If I worked a 16 day block of 4 4 day pairings, it was more or less unavoidable to go in the night before, so now your gone from home 20 days, add an extra a night for that pairing you can't get out on and its 21. Leaving you home for ~10 days in a month. Not great. Plus you spend all that time just sitting in the back wanting to be anywhere but where you are. Also there is a large cost, ~$500 for a crash pad, plus ~$70 per round trip for flights (thanks AIFs!) and it is not insignificant in terms of money. I was glad to be over that hump and then COVID. Argh

YVR-YYC

When I was doing that it was tolerable for the short term. I managed to bid and get pairings that had me getting a hotel a month give or take, or a 45min drive to a friends place. That and because of the frequency of flights with WJ and AC rarely would you get stuck. So between major centers like that not so bad.

Small town to hub

This can have some major advantages on the home life. If you want to live in a rural location where you have friends, family and your dollar goes further, it can give you the best quality of life, however, there are disadvantages. Less frequency of flights, so you will be in the night before and spend the night after a pairing far more often. There will come a time when you will be stuck in the wrong city due to cancellation, bad wx or full flights. Again the costs can add up for hotels, though flight are usually cheaper departing small town airport due to way less taxes.

Long Driving Commute

I use to have to drive 2ish hours to the airport. Not all that bad if you don't mind driving. Mine was mostly freeway, and good tunes, and coffee helped. Also doing longer pairings so you only made the trip 3 or 4 times a month! Wear and tear plus gas on the vehicle can add up, though again if it is a life style choice it may be the right one for you. One thing that can be problematic is making report times for a res call out if you are required to hold it. Just make sure you keep an eye on the traffic just in case.

Short Driving Commute

I currently live 20min to my home airport, and pre-COVID was doing a couple more mostly single day pairings per month to about 13 or so days. For me this was optimal. Gets me home in my own bed as much as possible.

The thing about talking to commuters, and I can not stress this enough, if you ask them "How is the commute?" You will always hear, oh not so bad, and then go on. The thing is they are very likely rationalizing it to them selves as well. If you want honest opinions talk to ex-commuters.

Short answer, depends on the lifestyle you are trying to carve out. What is optimal for you and your family. If you don't have a family yet, you can rent places in areas you would like to try before committing.

[NotDirty!]

I'm planning on living about an hour drive from the airport one day. I wonder is that normal for airline pilots? Personally I don't like the idea of commuting though (haven't done it).

Yes, this is very normal! Most people I fly with seem to live 45 - 90 minutes from YYZ.

Everyone commutes in some sense, but “commuting” generally applies to commuting by air. Everyone has their reasons for choosing where to live, and often there is family pressure opposing efficiency, leading to some sort of compromise! Living in a van in the airport parking garage may be the most efficient living option as far as getting to work without much effort, but your spouse may not appreciate that! In the present real estate market, you may not be able to find a comfortable, affordable home less than a 4 hour drive from the airport… that may be more of a commute than you want.

Commuting by air can be done, and like anything you have to balance the pros and cons. What is too much of a hassle for one pilot, may be an acceptable fact of life for the next.

I avoided commuting for the first 15+ years of my career: I moved to follow jobs, and as I developed a family, they moved with me. Then I found a good job in a decent city, and stuck there for a long time. My family grew, and we called this city home. After 10 years, I got a new job at a major airline, and for the first time in my life, I didn’t move to follow the job! My wife and kids were well established, my house was not in ideal selling condition, and we decided that commuting was the best option for now.

Commuting varied in “easiness”. When I started there were many daily flights on a smallish aircraft… loads were tight, but I usually got on the flight I wanted to, and if not there was another option a couple of hours later. Then after a year or so, they upgauged to a larger aircraft with almost 3x the number of seats, but they halved the frequency… now I always could get on a flight, but the change in schedule made it less convenient.

Some months were good, with my schedule arranged to make easy commutes, with long stretches at home. Other months not so much! I’ve lost count how many times I have raced through the terminal to try to catch the last flight home, only to miss it by a minute! Then the short extra night before getting home is not very restful!

For the most part I have managed to get most months down to 2-3 commutes each way, with 5-8 days away from home at a time. I had one month where I was gone for 14 days straight, but that was more too much (imho). I even managed to get one month where all of my layovers were at my “home”, so I slept in my own bed every night that month. It meant more commutes, but it was an acceptable cost.

There are some days when I have commuted in the back of a jet, and I am way better rested than my captain, who was fighting traffic on the 401 while I was sleeping in seat 19C. Other commutes were more stressful, and there was one winter storm that saw me take 3 days to get home.

If it were just up to me, I would not choose to commute. But since moving my family still isn’t in the books, I will continue to commute… more by necessity than by choice. If you have the choice, I would advise against it, but if it is what is best for your situation, it does not necessarily mean it is a terrible option.

[co-joe]

I've had a few $1000 months commuting. Always going in the night before, and coming home shit can tired the day after a pairing. Covid has really changed things with Air BnB's all wanting 2 night minimum with the extra cleaning protocols, that alone is making the crew rate at the hotel the cheaper option but with tax its around $120 - $140 per night. I just can't bring myself to stay in a crash pad. I may as well bring a tent and a thermarest, at least then I'll get some sleep.

But, where I am, I have a 2 car garage, a yard with a big garden, a house, and a 15 min drive to the airport. In YVR or YYZ I'd be in a bachelor pad with a murphy bed. Even if I budget 12K a year in commuting costs, I still come out way ahead financially over the cost of living in the centre of the universe.

[Donald]

It sucks.

15 minutes to or from the airport on a normal day. 20 minutes if it’s rush hour. I’ll duck out even earlier than I normally do to miss it when I can.

Time is the most precious commodity we have. We can’t ever make any more of it and it gets withdrawn at a slow but unrelenting pace.

If flying to another city or across the country every week and staying in a hotel or crash pad or van and eating ramen or terminal food or trying to run a USB cooler or a mini fridge to keep healthy food from rotting isn’t something you would choose spend exorbitant amounts of money to do on your free time.....


.....then you are doing time.

This.

Commuting is added stress, and takes away from the joyful parts of life.

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

My 'commute' is an hour or so drive on a 400 series highway.

I hate it.

Now imagine having that, plus a couple hour flight, plus the time waiting on either end, plus the uncertainty, plus the additional cost, plus the hotels or crash pad.

The best job is the job you don't need to commute to.

Although, if you were flying long haul only doing two or three pairings a month, commuting might just be an option.

Hate a one hour commute? if you don't mind me asking but how often do you have to make that commute?

I was bidding for single day trips and was working 14-16 days per month before COVID.

It's really annoying driving the 401 through Milton... almost as bad as 401 passing Yonge Street.

[Shinyjetsyndrome]

Has anyone commuted to YYZ or YUL from YOW? Curious what others’ experiences were like. I could see myself living here long term.

[sstaurus]

The thing about talking to commuters, and I can not stress this enough, if you ask them "How is the commute?" You will always hear, oh not so bad, and then go on. The thing is they are very likely rationalizing it to them selves as well. If you want honest opinions talk to ex-commuters.

Yep definitely true, most commuters are kidding themselves about how bad it is..

[NotDirty!]

Has anyone commuted to YYZ or YUL from YOW? Curious what others’ experiences were like. I could see myself living here long term.

I know a bunch of people who do it. The commute to YYZ is not bad, there are lots of flights, and depending on the fleet you’re on, there may be an opportunity for many YOW layovers! The guys who commute to YUL generally drive, which is a bit of a long drive, but definitely not as bad as some.

Many commuters bid long multi-day pairings to avoid staying nights in the crash pad.
Some pilots like the high credit single-day pairings, and deal with the consequences of that. In some operations there isn’t much choice, but in many others you can bid for pairings that are more convenient, even if they are less efficient or desirable.

[Julian.B]

The thing about talking to commuters, and I can not stress this enough, if you ask them "How is the commute?" You will always hear, oh not so bad, and then go on. The thing is they are very likely rationalizing it to them selves as well. If you want honest opinions talk to ex-commuters.

Yep definitely true, most commuters are kidding themselves about how bad it is..

I think that's an incorrect statement. To me, commuting is a much better alternative than living in Toronto (or anywhere within 30 minutes of YYZ). I can afford the house I want, my kids go to good schools and my town is a safe, quiet place to raise a family. I could not have the standard of living I have now if I lived in Toronto or anywhere near YYZ. Even if I did, I wouldn't live there.

So "BAD" has many faces. I chose the "less bad" (driving two hours from SW Ontario).

[billgeno]

Has anyone commuted to YYZ or YUL from YOW? Curious what others’ experiences were like. I could see myself living here long term.

In the "before times" I commuted to YYZ from YOW with both of the airlines I worked for. Overall, I was not unhappy with the commute, as YOW and YUL had the highest frequency and options for flights to the Toronto area. If AC and WJ were not working for some reason, you headed to YTZ on POE and took the cheap train after flashing your RAIC.

The first airline I was working for made things quite easy for most of my time there. Even though we had 18 day months, you could bid longer pairings, DH starts and a whole host of options. You could also trade with others to make it work for you. The commute policy was unmatched and was free. It's almost like we were American pilots with their free jumpseat privileges. That all changed after a while and the commute started to cost money, but you could still find an AC return flight for about $22.

The second airline was great as a busy month at times was 10 days worked in 3 - 5 day blocks. Commuting in and out was good as I would fly, again on AC for about $22 or I drove a few times to spend time with family back in the Toronto area.

Now though, it's different as the airport fees have skyrocketed and you are looking at $42 one way and the frequency has all but disappeared. I am sure the number of flights back and forth will return in time, but right now, it's just not there.

I can't speak much for YOW to YUL as I only took the Jazz flight a handful of times and I have no idea what is going on with that route at the moment, but the drive for me is less than 90 mins. I know people who were living in YOW and driving to YUL for Sky, and they didn't mind it at all.

It all comes down to you and your preferences.

[Old fella]

Not an airline type but commuted to Head Office when employed by regulator in anticipation of a promotion, ladder, climb, better salary, language training etc. I hated the commuting, lonely nights in hotel,walking city streets by myself to kill off days, away from wife and kids etc. I turned down said promotion as that and city living not my lot in life. I tip my hat to you airline pilot guys/gals and yer families who make the commuting lifestyle work as part of the routine of earning your living, your fortitude is much stronger than mine would ever be. Perks(vacation travel, hotels etc.) you do get through airline flying is certainly well deserved including the associated better salaries as you move to bigger aircraft and length of service.

[jpilot77]

Has anyone commuted to YYZ or YUL from YOW? Curious what others’ experiences were like. I could see myself living here long term.

I know lots of guys who do YOW to YUL but they drive.

[co-joe]

...
Now though, it's different as the airport fees have skyrocketed and you are looking at $42 one way and the frequency has all but disappeared. I am sure the number of flights back and forth will return in time, but right now, it's just not there.

...

This is a charge that is really driving up commuting costs. Westjet always charged the AIF but AC just started charging us for it in January and so now every shift is $90 return. I know there's a class action lawsuit about this but I haven't kept up with how it's going.

The other thing that bears mention is that as of yet, the new duty regs don't specifically cover commuting, but the language is there in black and white, so time will tell if same day commutes become a thing of the past or not. This coupled with the fact that the duty regs make western pilots less flexible to crew sched could force more long commutes on westerners exacerbating this problem.

[200Above]

I commuted at WJ, did three 5 day pairings a month and it was a breeze. Always gave myself lots of options to minimize the stress. You have to be smart and open to changes when commuting.

AC, kind of sucks since we don't have the 5 day pairing volume that we did at WJ. Just a different animal. That being said, I picked YYZ over YVR as a base for lifestyle reasons, even though YVR is way closer. I was forecast to be top 35% A320 YYZ FO pre covid, and here I am on the street.

If you commute, you have to embrace it, go with the punches, and realize you're gonna win some and lose some. Know what you can and cannot control.

I buy internet passes for the flights and try to stay productive.

[fish4life]

Oh also don’t be so f’ing cheap and sit in the airport for 15 hours waiting for a flight or spend the night in the crew room if you do that you will hate commuting. If you spend that time in a hotel or renting a car and going golfing or something it can be enjoyable