Best guess when recalls could happen

[RegionalPilot]

With the whole fleet aiming to be back in the air by September, does anyone think hiring could happen by December?

The real answer is no one knows… Especially with the Delta variant.

I get told one day that I will be on the payroll before year end. Next day I get told it won’t be before spring 2023…

[link821]

Yeah somedays seem more optimistic then others.

[rudder]

With the whole fleet aiming to be back in the air by September, does anyone think hiring could happen by December?

December of what year? 2021 - no way. 2022 - perhaps. 2023 - probably.

[link821]

What about those of us who had ground schools in March?

[Inverted2]

What about those of us who had ground schools in March?

Depends. Were you actually hired and then laid off, or just offered a ground school and had it cancelled before you started? If you were hired and started at least a couple days and got laid off, you'll get recalled. If not, I'd hate to say but you're out of luck but hopefully first in the line when hiring starts up again in a year or 2.

The company just payed millions in severance packages to approx. 75 senior pilots so that kinda tells you right there that Jazz is still looking to reduce current pilot numbers for the next while.

[link821]

Having seen a few of the US ALPA carriers offer employment in the recent weeks to candidates who had job offers just prior to covid gives me a bit of hope they'll at the very least consider those of us in the same boat at jazz...

[Julian.B]

I believe Jazz will call back guys that have been offered a job prior to Covid (once everyone is back). They're good that way. How else would one explain the fact that they let GGN and Sky pilots get ahead of them? VERY NICE COMPANY AND UNION! Try that sh*t at Air Canada or Westjet. LOL

[rudder]

The company just payed millions in severance packages to approx. 75 senior pilots so that kinda tells you right there that Jazz is still looking to reduce current pilot numbers for the next while.

The SSP initiative was targeted at DB pension plan members. The primary goal was to reduce company pension contribution expense. The secondary goal was to replace the top scale DB plan CA with a less tenured DC plan CA.

In general, a year 2-5 DC CA will have an all in payroll cost (wages/pension/benefit/vacation) less than 50% of a top scale DB CA.

Given that 75 seniors will exit within the next 90 days while many relative juniors are being upgraded, it would appear the objective was achieved. However, it will take 2-3 years for the SSP to pay for itself. Regardless, good timing while Jazz remains in surplus for pilots.

[smashthedash]

I believe Jazz will call back guys that have been offered a job prior to Covid (once everyone is back). They're good that way. How else would one explain the fact that they let GGN and Sky pilots get ahead of them? VERY NICE COMPANY AND UNION! Try that sh*t at Air Canada or Westjet. LOL

Can you explain us a better way to do an integration than what Jazz and JAZMEC did with Georgian and Sky. DOH in those cases where Jazz got the aircrafts and the flying associated with them was the only fair way to integrate those pilots. I don't believe in screwing someone else's career for my short term benefit. Good luck to those who were in the pool for a GS, Jazz is a great company and I'm sure they will try their best to give you a new offer.

[Julian.B]

I believe Jazz will call back guys that have been offered a job prior to Covid (once everyone is back). They're good that way. How else would one explain the fact that they let GGN and Sky pilots get ahead of them? VERY NICE COMPANY AND UNION! Try that sh*t at Air Canada or Westjet. LOL

Can you explain us a better way to do an integration than what Jazz and JAZMEC did with Georgian and Sky. DOH in those cases where Jazz got the aircrafts and the flying associated with them was the only fair way to integrate those pilots. I don't believe in screwing someone else's career for my short term benefit. Good luck to those who were in the pool for a GS, Jazz is a great company and I'm sure they will try their best to give you a new offer.

Yes I can. I will use CAPS to highlight key points.

The number one duty of a Union IS TO PROTECT ITS PAYING MEMBERS !!!

F***ing over junior pilots to accommodate someone that has been working for an airline SPECIFICALLY CREATED TO SCREW WITH JAZZ AND UNDERMINE IT'S PILOTS, is beyond messed up. ACPA would NEVER allow that and neither would most unions.

If you don't understand that or somehow think that what happened at Jazz is normal, than you need to have your head examined. If you were on of the hundred of jazz pilots stuck at home on layoff, while Sky Regional guys got a job and got their equipment protected, you would feel so good. I know that because I have many friends working there (or I should say WERE working there),

Personally, I have no skin in that game. I don't care either way as I am not affected by this. I don't work for Jazz. I just find it insane that someone pays a crap load of money to their union, so they can vote on a contract that keeps them laid off and their competition gets hired.

[Julian.B]

I believe Jazz will call back guys that have been offered a job prior to Covid (once everyone is back). They're good that way. How else would one explain the fact that they let GGN and Sky pilots get ahead of them? VERY NICE COMPANY AND UNION! Try that sh*t at Air Canada or Westjet. LOL

Can you explain us a better way to do an integration than what Jazz and JAZMEC did with Georgian and Sky. DOH in those cases where Jazz got the aircrafts and the flying associated with them was the only fair way to integrate those pilots. I don't believe in screwing someone else's career for my short term benefit. Good luck to those who were in the pool for a GS, Jazz is a great company and I'm sure they will try their best to give you a new offer.

I will add to that:

If it were up to me, I wouldn't hire ANYONE from Sky Regional. They can apply like everyone off the street. AC terminated their contract, not Jazz. They would have been lucky enough to be offered "Bottom of the List", never mind the GOLDEN TICKET of jobs. DOH and protection on the BEST AIRCRAFT.

[Julian.B]

I believe Jazz will call back guys that have been offered a job prior to Covid (once everyone is back). They're good that way. How else would one explain the fact that they let GGN and Sky pilots get ahead of them? VERY NICE COMPANY AND UNION! Try that sh*t at Air Canada or Westjet. LOL

Can you explain us a better way to do an integration than what Jazz and JAZMEC did with Georgian and Sky. DOH in those cases where Jazz got the aircrafts and the flying associated with them was the only fair way to integrate those pilots. I don't believe in screwing someone else's career for my short term benefit. Good luck to those who were in the pool for a GS, Jazz is a great company and I'm sure they will try their best to give you a new offer.

Yes I can. I will use CAPS to highlight key points.

The number one duty of a Union IS TO PROTECT ITS PAYING MEMBERS !!!

F***ing over junior pilots to accommodate someone that has been working for an airline SPECIFICALLY CREATED TO SCREW WITH JAZZ AND UNDERMINE ITS PILOTS, is beyond messed up. ACPA would NEVER allow that and neither would most unions.

If you don't understand that or somehow think that what happened at Jazz is normal, than you need to have your head examined. If you were on of the hundred of jazz pilots stuck at home on layoff, while Sky Regional guys got a job and got their equipment protected, you would feel so good. I know that because I have many friends working there (or I should say WERE working there),

Personally, I have no skin in that game. I don't care either way as I am not affected by this. I don't work for Jazz. I just find it insane that someone pays a crap load of money to their union, so they can vote on a contract that keeps them laid off and their competition gets hired.

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

I believe Jazz will call back guys that have been offered a job prior to Covid (once everyone is back). They're good that way. How else would one explain the fact that they let GGN and Sky pilots get ahead of them? VERY NICE COMPANY AND UNION! Try that sh*t at Air Canada or Westjet. LOL

Can you explain us a better way to do an integration than what Jazz and JAZMEC did with Georgian and Sky. DOH in those cases where Jazz got the aircrafts and the flying associated with them was the only fair way to integrate those pilots. I don't believe in screwing someone else's career for my short term benefit. Good luck to those who were in the pool for a GS, Jazz is a great company and I'm sure they will try their best to give you a new offer.

Yes I can. I will use CAPS to highlight key points.

The number one duty of a Union IS TO PROTECT ITS PAYING MEMBERS !!!

F***ing over junior pilots to accommodate someone that has been working for an airline SPECIFICALLY CREATED TO SCREW WITH JAZZ AND UNDERMINE IT'S PILOTS, is beyond messed up. ACPA would NEVER allow that and neither would most unions.

If you don't understand that or somehow think that what happened at Jazz is normal, than you need to have your head examined. If you were on of the hundred of jazz pilots stuck at home on layoff, while Sky Regional guys got a job and got their equipment protected, you would feel so good. I know that because I have many friends working there (or I should say WERE working there),

Personally, I have no skin in that game. I don't care either way as I am not affected by this. I don't work for Jazz. I just find it insane that someone pays a crap load of money to their union, so they can vote on a contract that keeps them laid off and their competition gets hired.

On the flip side, what about the pilots who did not choose to get merged in with another airline who would have otherwise had people several years junior above them on the list?

Let's also make sure we're on the same page here. Jazz is recalling pilots hired in mid-to-late 2019 at this point. For comparison, Encore is at late 2016/early 2017.

I believe that any Jazz pilot who is upset that pilots with a DOH at Sky or Georgian earlier than their DOH at Jazz are being recalled should assess the situation and realize that they are still pretty damned lucky.

[Julian.B]

On the flip side, what about the pilots who did not choose to get merged in with another airline who would have otherwise had people several years junior above them on the list?

Let's also make sure we're on the same page here. Jazz is recalling pilots hired in mid-to-late 2019 at this point. For comparison, Encore is at late 2016/early 2017.

I believe that any Jazz pilot who is upset that pilots with a DOH at Sky or Georgian earlier than their DOH at Jazz are being recalled should assess the situation and realize that they are still pretty damned lucky.

That's the unfortunate side of capitalism. We're not 1980 USSR here, where all the pilots were employed by the state. This is private enterprise. When playing the "career game", you evaluate what your needs and wishes are, your goals, your expectations and make a decision based on current circumstances. Some people want AC, some want Westjet. Some want to be home every night.

The thing is, most people that work at Jazz (and honesty, I do admire that company. It's one of the better ones out there), have worked very hard to get into that airline. Whether they worked hard in high-school to get to Seneca and graduate from there or put in thousands of hours flying twins up North, so they can be more competitive than others, had rude slap to the face, when someone that couldn't cut it anywhere else went to Georgian. Now they get to cut in front. I'd be pretty pissed off if that was me, never mind the thousands of dollars a Jazz pilot pays to his or her union.

The fact that Jazz is recalling pilots faster than Westjet, just proves my point that Jazz is a better company (see my points above). It's unfair to those who worked hard to get hired a Jazz to just leave things to luck. It's not luck sir. People make their luck... most of the time.

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

Jazz FO schedule for July
https://i.imgur.com/iNiC6sM.png

Encore CPT schedule for July
https://i.imgur.com/D9YiDpY.png

Sure, I'm comparing apples to bananas, but I'd much rather a set schedule for the month than reserve on top of reserve stacked on reserve.

Looks like Jazz isn't best at everything.

Average fleet age at Jazz, 14 years.

Average fleet age at Encore, 5.7 years.

[Julian.B]

Jazz FO schedule for July
https://i.imgur.com/iNiC6sM.png

Encore CPT schedule for July
https://i.imgur.com/D9YiDpY.png

Sure, I'm comparing apples to bananas, but I'd much rather a set schedule for the month than reserve on top of reserve stacked on reserve.

Looks like Jazz isn't best at everything.

Well of course not. Ryanair is better than Jazz when it comes to some things (Pay, destinations, type of aircraft) but that doesn't mean working at Ryanair is actually good.

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

Jazz FO schedule for July
https://i.imgur.com/iNiC6sM.png

Encore CPT schedule for July
https://i.imgur.com/D9YiDpY.png

Sure, I'm comparing apples to bananas, but I'd much rather a set schedule for the month than reserve on top of reserve stacked on reserve.

Looks like Jazz isn't best at everything.

Well of course not. Ryanair is better than Jazz when it comes to some things (Pay, destinations, type of aircraft) but that doesn't mean working at Ryanair is actually good.

I guess at this point, it comes down to where one is happy.

[YC87DRVR]

Jazz FO schedule for July
https://i.imgur.com/iNiC6sM.png

Encore CPT schedule for July
https://i.imgur.com/D9YiDpY.png

Sure, I'm comparing apples to bananas, but I'd much rather a set schedule for the month than reserve on top of reserve stacked on reserve.

Looks like Jazz isn't best at everything.

Well of course not. Ryanair is better than Jazz when it comes to some things (Pay, destinations, type of aircraft) but that doesn't mean working at Ryanair is actually good.

I guess at this point, it comes down to where one is happy.

As someone who spent many years at Jazz and over a decade at Westjet, you cannot compare Encore to Jazz.
Schedule and pay rates are just small parts of an airlines WAWCON’s. It would be more fair to compare Jazz to Westjet mainline.

[rudder]

Looks like Jazz isn't best at everything.

Average fleet age at Jazz, 14 years.

Average fleet age at Encore, 5.7 years.

I have never heard of pilot pay or WAWCON based on age of fleet.

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

Well of course not. Ryanair is better than Jazz when it comes to some things (Pay, destinations, type of aircraft) but that doesn't mean working at Ryanair is actually good.

I guess at this point, it comes down to where one is happy.

As someone who spent many years at Jazz and over a decade at Westjet, you cannot compare Encore to Jazz.
Schedule and pay rates are just small parts of an airlines WAWCON’s. It would be more fair to compare Jazz to Westjet mainline.

I don't understand. WAWCON stands for wages and working conditions. What else can we quantifiably measure?

[straight2thepoint]

"while Sky Regional guys got a job and got their equipment protected..."

"...and protection on the BEST AIRCRAFT."

This is misleading. Got jobs, yes. Equipment protection, not really. At least as soon as the recall class on Monday the 5th, from Julie's mouth: "As soon as the next equipment bid, which will hopefully be in August, it is highly unlikely you will be able to hold the Embraer." This is in reference to current FOs on the 175 from Sky coming over, obviously.

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

"while Sky Regional guys got a job and got their equipment protected..."

"...and protection on the BEST AIRCRAFT."

This is misleading. Got jobs, yes. Equipment protection, not really. At least as soon as the recall class on Monday the 5th, from Julie's mouth: "As soon as the next equipment bid, which will hopefully be in August, it is highly unlikely you will be able to hold the Embraer." This is in reference to current FOs on the 175 from Sky coming over, obviously.

But didn't you know that Jazz is better than everywhere else just because?

It's like how people who go to Western think that their schooling is better than everyone else's.

[Julian.B]

"while Sky Regional guys got a job and got their equipment protected..."

"...and protection on the BEST AIRCRAFT."

This is misleading. Got jobs, yes. Equipment protection, not really. At least as soon as the recall class on Monday the 5th, from Julie's mouth: "As soon as the next equipment bid, which will hopefully be in August, it is highly unlikely you will be able to hold the Embraer." This is in reference to current FOs on the 175 from Sky coming over, obviously.

I'm not sure who "Julie" is. Manager? Well that's good. At least Jazz pilots can bid on the Embraer. None the less; the fact that Sky Regional were hired at Jazz as DOH and with no interview is amazing by itself. It really sets a great example, although completly misplaced. It's like winning a war and telling your enemies they can join your army and have dibs on ranks above your own soldiers. Pretty crappy situation. I am willing to bet a left nut that if that ever went to a vote, it would have never been approved by Jazz pilots. Their union sold them out. Pure and simple. Everything else is circumstantial.

[Inverted2]

Jazz FO schedule for July
https://i.imgur.com/iNiC6sM.png

Encore CPT schedule for July
https://i.imgur.com/D9YiDpY.png

Sure, I'm comparing apples to bananas, but I'd much rather a set schedule for the month than reserve on top of reserve stacked on reserve.

Looks like Jazz isn't best at everything.

Average fleet age at Jazz, 14 years.

Average fleet age at Encore, 5.7 years.

I don’t care how old my plane is at Jazz. It’s probably older than you are.
If Jazz wants to pay me 11-12k a month to work 2-3 days on reserve, I’m not going to complain.

[YC87DRVR]

I guess at this point, it comes down to where one is happy.

As someone who spent many years at Jazz and over a decade at Westjet, you cannot compare Encore to Jazz.
Schedule and pay rates are just small parts of an airlines WAWCON’s. It would be more fair to compare Jazz to Westjet mainline.

I don't understand. WAWCON stands for wages and working conditions. What else can we quantifiably measure?

Well my whole point was there’s many other things to look at then just pay and schedule and that’s not to say Encore is even better at those. Heck I flew more on the 37 then I did at Jazz. But other very important things to consider are health/dental which is 1000x better at Jazz than any of the WJ group and retirement savings plans. You may not think so but wait till your get in you later years and have children.
Literally the only advantages Encore has is reserve, aircraft age(lol doesn’t matter) and no interview if you want to go to mainline. That’s it.