Get Ready Airline Workers to be Forcibly Vaccinated

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

That's a clear violation of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms imho.

Disclaimer:- I'm not a legal expert - but neither is the Prime Minister.

Sooo .. what specific part of the Charter do you think this violates? As far as I know, there's nothing in there preventing employers from attaching conditions to your employment. There may (or may not) be labor laws that do this, but I'm pretty sure the Charter doesn't. Feel free to look it up yourself right here: https://publications.gc.ca/collections/ ... -2002E.pdf.

Section 1

Section 2a

Section 7

Again I'm not a legal expert of any kind.

I would be interested in hearing from any people that are legal experts - this is a question that is extremely relevant.


My company has not mandated vaccinations - what they have said is that if clients specify crew members must be vaccinated then non vaccinated crew will not be part of that operation.

Section 1

1. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights
and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by
law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.

Nope, nothing against requiring people to be vaccinated to work for an employer.

Section 2b

2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
(a) freedom of conscience and religion;

Nobody is forcing you to go against your religion or go against your conscience.

Section 7

7. Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the
right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of
fundamental justice.

What does that have to do with anything?

Now, if you honestly believe that vaccine requirements are against the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, you should take a look into the Immunization of Pupils act of 1990 and think about how a set of laws that are the same in nature to this subject's proposed laws have been around for over 30 years without being repealed.

[montado]

I can tell you why there’s confusion. Last week andrea horwath said she would not make vaccine passports as she would not go against the charter of human rights.

Really all of the debating is not clear, because right now we don’t know exactly what vaccine passports* or mandatory vaccines* really means. The situation is very ambiguous and even our leaders don’t seem to know if they can mandate the vaccines in some shape or form. I’m assuming if part of the approval process is incomplete that it’s likely vaccines won’t be mandatory until at least that process is completed. So I agree that Eric could be right but I’m also no lawyer and don’t know exactly why this can’t just be made clear.

The one lawyer I did talk to about this said workplaces can make the vaccines mandatory for the workplace.I asked him why the flu vaccine can’t be mandatory. His answer was because the flu doesn’t cause lockdowns. I kind of chuckled because this sounded so stupid coming from a lawyer. My reply to him was covid, or the flu doesn’t cause lockdowns, that’s simply a choice of politics. You might like to think lockdowns are about your health but I don’t see any definitive evidence that lockdowns were any less damaging to the public’s health. So this lawyer IMO sounded like a goon with no good answer. I pointed out that we could make a public health decision to lockdown for the flu every year. We could do “flu zero”.

So it’s not really clear on what basis the covid vaccine needs to be mandatory but the flu vaccine not.

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

I can tell you why there’s confusion. Last week andrea horwath said she would not make vaccine passports as she would not go against the charter of human rights.

Really all of the debating is not clear, because right now we don’t know exactly what vaccine passports* or mandatory vaccines* really means. The situation is very ambiguous and even our leaders don’t seem to know if they can mandate the vaccines in some shape or form. I’m assuming if part of the approval process is incomplete that it’s likely vaccines won’t be mandatory until at least that process is completed. So I agree that Eric could be right but I’m also no lawyer and don’t know exactly why this can’t just be made clear.

The one lawyer I did talk to about this said workplaces can make the vaccines mandatory for the workplace.I asked him why the flu vaccine can’t be mandatory. His answer was because the flu doesn’t cause lockdowns. I kind of chuckled because this sounded so stupid coming from a lawyer. My reply to him was covid, or the flu doesn’t cause lockdowns, that’s simply a choice of politics. You might like to think lockdowns are about your health but I don’t see any definitive evidence that lockdowns were any less damaging to the public’s health. So this lawyer IMO sounded like a goon with no good answer. I pointed out that we could make a public health decision to lockdown for the flu every year. We could do “flu zero”.

So it’s not really clear on what basis the covid vaccine needs to be mandatory but the flu vaccine not.

Vaccine passports are very different from a company mandating vaccines.

[Inverted2]

I think I’ll start asking for people’s proof of the Gardasil vaccine when they ask me for my vaccine passport.

[montado]

I can tell you why there’s confusion. Last week andrea horwath said she would not make vaccine passports as she would not go against the charter of human rights.

Really all of the debating is not clear, because right now we don’t know exactly what vaccine passports* or mandatory vaccines* really means. The situation is very ambiguous and even our leaders don’t seem to know if they can mandate the vaccines in some shape or form. I’m assuming if part of the approval process is incomplete that it’s likely vaccines won’t be mandatory until at least that process is completed. So I agree that Eric could be right but I’m also no lawyer and don’t know exactly why this can’t just be made clear.

The one lawyer I did talk to about this said workplaces can make the vaccines mandatory for the workplace.I asked him why the flu vaccine can’t be mandatory. His answer was because the flu doesn’t cause lockdowns. I kind of chuckled because this sounded so stupid coming from a lawyer. My reply to him was covid, or the flu doesn’t cause lockdowns, that’s simply a choice of politics. You might like to think lockdowns are about your health but I don’t see any definitive evidence that lockdowns were any less damaging to the public’s health. So this lawyer IMO sounded like a goon with no good answer. I pointed out that we could make a public health decision to lockdown for the flu every year. We could do “flu zero”.

So it’s not really clear on what basis the covid vaccine needs to be mandatory but the flu vaccine not.

Vaccine passports are very different from a company mandating vaccines.

Oh I’m sure it is, but when people have these debates I’m not sure everyone clearly understands what the policy exactly is that is being debated. Some people interpret vaccine passports as “mandatory vaccines” or mandatory to do certain things like to to a restaurant.

Anyways looking forward to when a school board says the covid vaccine is mandatory for kids. I will tell them my kids will get the covid shot once they also make the flu vaccine mandatory. From what I can see the science says the flu is at least as deadly as covid for my kids so how will they draw the line? I think a strong case can be made that the flu vaccine aught to be mandatory also am I right?

I think I’ll start asking for people’s proof of the Gardasil vaccine when they ask me for my vaccine passport.

Yeah it will be my rule you need to wear a mask around me if you don’t have the flu shot. I’ll also be asking people for proof of this when they ask for my proof of vaccine. Anyone who asks for proof of covid vaccine I’ll say “okay you go first, show me your proof… I don’t know if I can stand within 6ft of you till you show me your status” high level of idiotic inbound. I would probably just never go out to a restaurant if they ask. I’m vaccinated, but I won’t be showing my vaccine record to go eat out. It’s just pure lunacy to me.

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

I can tell you why there’s confusion. Last week andrea horwath said she would not make vaccine passports as she would not go against the charter of human rights.

Really all of the debating is not clear, because right now we don’t know exactly what vaccine passports* or mandatory vaccines* really means. The situation is very ambiguous and even our leaders don’t seem to know if they can mandate the vaccines in some shape or form. I’m assuming if part of the approval process is incomplete that it’s likely vaccines won’t be mandatory until at least that process is completed. So I agree that Eric could be right but I’m also no lawyer and don’t know exactly why this can’t just be made clear.

The one lawyer I did talk to about this said workplaces can make the vaccines mandatory for the workplace.I asked him why the flu vaccine can’t be mandatory. His answer was because the flu doesn’t cause lockdowns. I kind of chuckled because this sounded so stupid coming from a lawyer. My reply to him was covid, or the flu doesn’t cause lockdowns, that’s simply a choice of politics. You might like to think lockdowns are about your health but I don’t see any definitive evidence that lockdowns were any less damaging to the public’s health. So this lawyer IMO sounded like a goon with no good answer. I pointed out that we could make a public health decision to lockdown for the flu every year. We could do “flu zero”.

So it’s not really clear on what basis the covid vaccine needs to be mandatory but the flu vaccine not.

Vaccine passports are very different from a company mandating vaccines.

Oh I’m sure it is, but when people have these debates I’m not sure everyone clearly understands what the policy exactly is that is being debated. Some people interpret vaccine passports as “mandatory vaccines” or mandatory to do certain things like to to a restaurant.

Anyways looking forward to when a school board says the covid vaccine is mandatory for kids. I will tell them my kids will get the covid shot once they also make the flu vaccine mandatory. From what I can see the science says the flu is at least as deadly as covid for my kids so how will they draw the line? I think a strong case can be made that the flu vaccine aught to be mandatory also am I right?

I think I’ll start asking for people’s proof of the Gardasil vaccine when they ask me for my vaccine passport.

Yeah it will be my rule you need to wear a mask around me if you don’t have the flu shot. I’ll also be asking people for proof of this when they ask for my proof of vaccine. Anyone who asks for proof of covid vaccine I’ll say “okay you go first, show me your proof… I don’t know if I can stand within 6ft of you till you show me your status” high level of idiotic inbound. I would probably just never go out to a restaurant if they ask. I’m vaccinated, but I won’t be showing my vaccine record to go eat out. It’s just pure lunacy to me.

Vaccines don't protect others directly. They protect the people who get them.

[montado]

Vaccines don't protect others directly. They protect the people who get them.

So can you explain the logic of vaccine passports?

If vaccinated people still get covid and still spread covid…. Is a vaccine passport a public health policy to protect people? Sounds like anyone who wants the vaccines will benefit from the vaccines itself but it will make no difference the choice other people make. So I don’t really understand the push for a “passport”

As a vaccinated person, I just don’t see how vaccine passports benefit myself in any way. Can anyone explain it?

[TheStig]

The Center for Disease Control can.

Effectiveness
What we know
COVID-19 vaccines are effective at keeping you from getting COVID-19, especially severe illness and death. COVID-19 vaccines reduce the risk of people spreading the virus that causes COVID-19. If you are fully vaccinated, you can resume activities that you did before the pandemic. Learn more about what you can do when you have been fully vaccinated.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... oknow.html

[montado]

The Center for Disease Control can.

Effectiveness
What we know
COVID-19 vaccines are effective at keeping you from getting COVID-19, especially severe illness and death. COVID-19 vaccines reduce the risk of people spreading the virus that causes COVID-19. If you are fully vaccinated, you can resume activities that you did before the pandemic. Learn more about what you can do when you have been fully vaccinated.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... oknow.html

That said nothing about vaccine passports. So tell me what will vaccine passports be effective at? What will change if we have vaccine passports? Will it mean more people will get vaccinated and then reduce hospitalization?

If it’s about protection of hospital capacity, why haven’t we banned smoking? Why don’t we ban fast food? Go look who’s in the hospital clogging up the system… it appears to be poor choices make up a huge number of hospital beds. We can also ban motorcycles, because they are dangerous. So if the logic is that we need to protect our hospitalization numbers there’s plenty more reasons people end up hospitalized besides covid that we could use government overreach to cure.

We were told we need to wear masks to prevent lockdowns, and how did that work out? Do you really believe vaccine passports will change anything? Do you really believe your government when it has been one lie after the other. As soon as vaccine passports are in, it will be the next thing we need. Funny how we lived all last summer with no vaccines, now we have most people vaccinated but we still need masks. The optics tell me all those people holding out who don’t want a vaccine, won’t be getting one. Why would they? It’s pretty clear the government has no plans to end control over your life.

[Beefitarian]

As a vaccinated person, I just don’t see how vaccine passports benefit myself in any way. Can anyone explain it?

When you arrive somewhere that wants you to be vaccinated to participate or enter a place, you show them the passport and carry on.

Maybe there is no benefit but it would be a quick way to “prove” you are vaccinated.

[montado]

As a vaccinated person, I just don’t see how vaccine passports benefit myself in any way. Can anyone explain it?

When you arrive somewhere that wants you to be vaccinated to participate or enter a place, you show them the passport and carry on.

Maybe there is no benefit but it would be a quick way to “prove” you are vaccinated.

So I don’t understand. People who want vaccine passports don’t want them because of public health reasons, they just want passports because they want government control? So there is no benefit, but this should be policy for no good reasons? Please tell me there’s a better reason for vaccines passports other than “we just want the government to control our lives because it feels good to me”

[newlygrounded]

The Center for Disease Control can.

Effectiveness
What we know
COVID-19 vaccines are effective at keeping you from getting COVID-19, especially severe illness and death. COVID-19 vaccines reduce the risk of people spreading the virus that causes COVID-19. If you are fully vaccinated, you can resume activities that you did before the pandemic. Learn more about what you can do when you have been fully vaccinated.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... oknow.html

That said nothing about vaccine passports. So tell me what will vaccine passports be effective at? What will change if we have vaccine passports? Will it mean more people will get vaccinated and then reduce hospitalization?

If it’s about protection of hospital capacity, why haven’t we banned smoking? Why don’t we ban fast food? Go look who’s in the hospital clogging up the system… it appears to be poor choices make up a huge number of hospital beds. We can also ban motorcycles, because they are dangerous. So if the logic is that we need to protect our hospitalization numbers there’s plenty more reasons people end up hospitalized besides covid that we could use government overreach to cure.

Me eating mcdonalds every day won't get my family sick, that's why hospital capacity is important. You can't spread those other things you mentioned, and at an exponential rate as well!

They tried the carot on the stick approach (everyone get their shot and we will reopen) If you need to have your shot to go do most day to day things it'll force the people who haven't gotten theirs yet to reconsider.

I'm not a fan of this but you wanted an explanation.

[montado]

Me eating mcdonalds every day won't get my family sick, that's why hospital capacity is important. You can't spread those other things you mentioned, and at an exponential rate as well!

They tried the carot on the stick approach (everyone get their shot and we will reopen) If you need to have your shot to go do most day to day things it'll force the people who haven't gotten theirs yet to reconsider.

I'm not a fan of this but you wanted an explanation.

100 percent poor diet leads to more hospitalization. 100 percent smoking leads to increased hospitalization.

Whether something is contagious is not relevant. If out hospitalization is high and may become overwhelmed I can think of many things the put people in hospital beds and I could think of many policies I could implement to reduce hospitalizations. We could say, starting today motorcycles are no longer allowed because they have a higher risk of occupancy of a hospital bed. I can think of all sorts of ridiculous policies that would be just as dumb as vaccine passports. If the issue is hospitalizations why are we only looking at covid? Why don’t we make the passports for the flu, as people with the flu also take up beds.

I don’t accept your explanation as a logical argument for my reasons above. I’d like to see the total number of hospital beds in Canada that are being occupied, and how many are because of covid. Then we should ask who all the other people are, and we can start making policies for the “silent majority” you know, the fat, obese, high risk taking people, smokers etc. Funny enough (well not so funny) the covid patients actually hit some of the same categories… the smokers and the obese over represents covid hospitalizations. Maybe make some passports to punish smokers and obese people. We should start selling airline tickets based on people weight. Put a tax on the fat, and make them pay.

[newlygrounded]

Me eating mcdonalds every day won't get my family sick, that's why hospital capacity is important. You can't spread those other things you mentioned, and at an exponential rate as well!

They tried the carot on the stick approach (everyone get their shot and we will reopen) If you need to have your shot to go do most day to day things it'll force the people who haven't gotten theirs yet to reconsider.

I'm not a fan of this but you wanted an explanation.

100 percent poor diet leads to more hospitalization. 100 percent smoking leads to increased hospitalization.

Whether something is contagious is not relevant. If out hospitalization is high and may become overwhelmed I can think of many things the put people in hospital beds and I could think of many policies I could implement to reduce hospitalizations. We could say, starting today motorcycles are no longer allowed because they have a higher risk of occupancy of a hospital bed. I can think of all sorts of ridiculous policies that would be just as dumb as vaccine passports. If the issue is hospitalizations why are we only looking at covid? Why don’t we make the passports for the flu, as people with the flu also take up beds.

I don’t accept your explanation as a logical argument for my reasons above.

You're losing the forest for the trees. My poor diet won't put 200 other people in the hospital in 2 weeks. The flu doesn't lead to hundreds of people ending up in the ICU in a matter of weeks.

[Beefitarian]

As a vaccinated person, I just don’t see how vaccine passports benefit myself in any way. Can anyone explain it?

When you arrive somewhere that wants you to be vaccinated to participate or enter a place, you show them the passport and carry on.

Maybe there is no benefit but it would be a quick way to “prove” you are vaccinated.

So I don’t understand. People who want vaccine passports don’t want them because of public health reasons, they just want passports because they want government control? So there is no benefit, but this should be policy for no good reasons? Please tell me there’s a better reason for vaccines passports other than “we just want the government to control our lives because it feels good to me”

Again, I can’t imagine any other reason for a passport besides being a trusted document to allow you to “pass” a “port”..

[newlygrounded]

When you arrive somewhere that wants you to be vaccinated to participate or enter a place, you show them the passport and carry on.

Maybe there is no benefit but it would be a quick way to “prove” you are vaccinated.

So I don’t understand. People who want vaccine passports don’t want them because of public health reasons, they just want passports because they want government control? So there is no benefit, but this should be policy for no good reasons? Please tell me there’s a better reason for vaccines passports other than “we just want the government to control our lives because it feels good to me”

Again, I can’t imagine any other reason for a passport besides being a trusted document to allow you to “pass” a “port”..

Let's call it an immunization record, like what you have to show when you attend school, etc. Does that change anything?

[TheStig]

As a vaccinated person, I just don’t see how vaccine passports benefit myself in any way. Can anyone explain it?

When you arrive somewhere that wants you to be vaccinated to participate or enter a place, you show them the passport and carry on.

Maybe there is no benefit but it would be a quick way to “prove” you are vaccinated.

So I don’t understand. People who want vaccine passports don’t want them because of public health reasons, they just want passports because they want government control? So there is no benefit, but this should be policy for no good reasons? Please tell me there’s a better reason for vaccines passports other than “we just want the government to control our lives because it feels good to me”

We probably agree on more than we disagree. It's extremely frustrating to see how many people feel the need for the government to solve all of their problems, and worse still to see Governments increasingly eager to find bureaucratic debt-fuelled solutions to every mini-crisis that pops up on twitter. That said, I do think that our Government has role in preventing pathogens from entering the country through boarder controls. This is not a uniquely Canadian issue obviously, we do not need to reinvent the wheel but coordinate with other countries looking to set universal standards. Vaccines prevent the spread of COVID19, it is reasonable to require those looking to enter the country to be vaccinated.

[Inverted2]

Hopefully this catches on too. 2 can play this ridiculous game.

[Loner]

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/t ... d=msedgntp




"Trudeau and his office had little more detail to offer Thursday about the request submitted to interim clerk Janice Charette, but he did mention two federally regulated sectors in particular that work closely with the public: “planes and trains.”

This is the first time Trudeau has overtly declared that his government is considering any form of mandatory vaccination."

I contacted my life insurance provider and they explained I can get vaccinated but I run the risk to have my policy canceled as they consider it an experimental drug at this point. They said it will be something to find out after my death and see if the payment is approved...hmm

[montado]

That’s interesting, and hard to believe. Will they pay out if you die with covid? I think if I was providing life insurance I would be encouraging my clients to get vaccinated and assure them they are covered.

Very hard to believe. So should we follow the money? Now we have to make up a new conspiracy about how life insurance companies know there is more risk to their clients to get vaccinated than the risk of covid itself. I think insurance just looks for any way out possible when it comes to paying claims.

[photofly]

So I don’t understand. People who want vaccine passports don’t want them because of public health reasons, they just want passports because they want government control? So there is no benefit, but this should be policy for no good reasons? Please tell me there’s a better reason for vaccines passports other than “we just want the government to control our lives because it feels good to me”

I want vaccine passports so there's an effective mechanism to force people who want to exercise their fundamental right not to be vaccinated to keep away from as many as possible of the sorts of places where I might want to go and where they would end up breathing and coughing on and near to me.

It's not a complicated ask.

['97 Tercel]

Apparently it is because that sentence was painful to read.

[photofly]

I don't want to be coughed on by unvaccinated people, and I don't want them breathing in enclosed spaces that I'm in. Vaccine passports will help keep unvaccinated people away from me in indoor spaces.

Is that clearer?

['97 Tercel]

sigh....

Both vaccinated and unvaccinated people can carry and transmit Covid. So......

Anywho, this is all moot because in about 6-8 months the vaccine will be about as current and relevant as a Palm Pilot.

[Inverted2]

I don't want to be coughed on by unvaccinated people, and I don't want them breathing in enclosed spaces that I'm in. Vaccine passports will help keep unvaccinated people away from me in indoor spaces.

Is that clearer?

Will you ask for employee health records when you enter a grocery store or restaurant too? There’s lots of other diseases out there. Can you imagine if a restaurant worker that handled your food had herpes?

Clearer?