No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

[newlygrounded]

Lol if this person has "given up" on his/her career because of a random union that they're not even a member of... then they aren't cut out to ever work in the industry anyways.

Why put words in my mouth?

"Ironically the insanity I've seen going on lately was the final straw that got me to give up on a flying career, thanks acpa I guess?"

Words out of your mouth...

All I'm saying is the industry isn't for you. This is to be expected... I was comfortably in my first aviation job (at a 705 no less) and then got laid off. Sucks but I knew it would happen at one point in my career.

You worded it like that was the only reason. I think most pilots don't know their worth and that's why we get shit wages. And with the cost of becoming a pilot, housing. and the low salary, being laid off can ruin your future for a lot of people these days.

[QKZXKV]

Why put words in my mouth?

"Ironically the insanity I've seen going on lately was the final straw that got me to give up on a flying career, thanks acpa I guess?"

Words out of your mouth...

All I'm saying is the industry isn't for you. This is to be expected... I was comfortably in my first aviation job (at a 705 no less) and then got laid off. Sucks but I knew it would happen at one point in my career.

You worded it like that was the only reason. I think most pilots don't know their worth and that's why we get shit wages. And with the cost of becoming a pilot, housing. and the low salary, being laid off can ruin your future for a lot of people these days.

Well then nothing is stopping you from a career change. All I'm scrutinizing is your fallacious connection between your murky future and ACPA; when you're still at a flying school no less.

[newlygrounded]

"Ironically the insanity I've seen going on lately was the final straw that got me to give up on a flying career, thanks acpa I guess?"

Words out of your mouth...

All I'm saying is the industry isn't for you. This is to be expected... I was comfortably in my first aviation job (at a 705 no less) and then got laid off. Sucks but I knew it would happen at one point in my career.

You worded it like that was the only reason. I think most pilots don't know their worth and that's why we get shit wages. And with the cost of becoming a pilot, housing. and the low salary, being laid off can ruin your future for a lot of people these days.

Well then nothing is stopping you from a career change. All I'm scrutinizing is your fallacious connection between your murky future and ACPA; when you're still at a flying school no less.

Who jumps into a field without looking ahead or at least at the current state of the industry they want to get into?

[QKZXKV]

You worded it like that was the only reason. I think most pilots don't know their worth and that's why we get shit wages. And with the cost of becoming a pilot, housing. and the low salary, being laid off can ruin your future for a lot of people these days.

Well then nothing is stopping you from a career change. All I'm scrutinizing is your fallacious connection between your murky future and ACPA; when you're still at a flying school no less.

Who jumps into a field without looking ahead or at least at the current state of the industry they want to get into?

So I looked ahead in 2014 when I "jumped into this field". Are you telling me that the last 18 months was predictable? How about 9/11? How many pilots trained and pursued this career post 9/11, SARS-1??? the number is not zero. Again more fallacious thinking to think that we can ever look ahead of the present and fortune tell what will happen.

You might just be kicking yourself in a year or two or you may not be.. Fortune telling as you're doing isn't productive.

[ayseven]

But it is cyclical. That is a fact and anybody starting now, should know that what goes down, goes up, and vice versa. There have never been guarantees, but some us have had incredibly bad timing!

[Sharklasers]

Well then nothing is stopping you from a career change. All I'm scrutinizing is your fallacious connection between your murky future and ACPA; when you're still at a flying school no less.

Who jumps into a field without looking ahead or at least at the current state of the industry they want to get into?

So I looked ahead in 2014 when I "jumped into this field". Are you telling me that the last 18 months was predictable? How about 9/11? How many pilots trained and pursued this career post 9/11, SARS-1??? the number is not zero. Again more fallacious thinking to think that we can ever look ahead of the present and fortune tell what will happen.

You might just be kicking yourself in a year or two or you may not be.. Fortune telling as you're doing isn't productive.

Don’t worry about this guy, he’s a never was, a downer. There were 28 year olds at AC precovid making 200k+ as narrowbody captains who are currently sitting on reinstatement rights to get back into it as soon as it turns around. Sure you can make more as an American pilot but in Canukistan that’s still a pretty good payday. And this wet blanket flightschool drop out has the balls to come here and lecture us about how terrible our job is? He thinks he’s going to make more money driving a forklift? Good luck.
My job is great, there are very few jobs in this country that will pay an early 30 year old 200k plus. Buck up newlygrounded, it’s going to be a tough life for a whiner like you.
For the rest of us it sounds like some good news coming down the pipe on Friday, we will be off to the races before you know it.

[Fanblade]

Who jumps into a field without looking ahead or at least at the current state of the industry they want to get into?

So I looked ahead in 2014 when I "jumped into this field". Are you telling me that the last 18 months was predictable? How about 9/11? How many pilots trained and pursued this career post 9/11, SARS-1??? the number is not zero. Again more fallacious thinking to think that we can ever look ahead of the present and fortune tell what will happen.

You might just be kicking yourself in a year or two or you may not be.. Fortune telling as you're doing isn't productive.

Don’t worry about this guy, he’s a never was, a downer. There were 28 year olds at AC precovid making 200k+ as narrowbody captains who are currently sitting on reinstatement rights to get back into it as soon as it turns around. Sure you can make more as an American pilot but in Canukistan that’s still a pretty good payday. And this wet blanket flightschool drop out has the balls to come here and lecture us about how terrible our job is? He thinks he’s going to make more money driving a forklift? Good luck.
My job was great, there are very few jobs in this country that will pay an early 30 year old 200k plus. Buck up newlygrounded, it’s going to be a tough life for a whiner like you.

I’m not defending the young guys comments, but it is absolutely scary to read what you just wrote. You clearly have no idea just how far we have fallen in wages. How on earth are we ever going to fix our situation when we have individuals who boast about how great our 20-30% losses have been over the last 15 years?

I just finished reading the latest P4C newsletter, and you posted….

[Sharklasers]

So I looked ahead in 2014 when I "jumped into this field". Are you telling me that the last 18 months was predictable? How about 9/11? How many pilots trained and pursued this career post 9/11, SARS-1??? the number is not zero. Again more fallacious thinking to think that we can ever look ahead of the present and fortune tell what will happen.

You might just be kicking yourself in a year or two or you may not be.. Fortune telling as you're doing isn't productive.

Don’t worry about this guy, he’s a never was, a downer. There were 28 year olds at AC precovid making 200k+ as narrowbody captains who are currently sitting on reinstatement rights to get back into it as soon as it turns around. Sure you can make more as an American pilot but in Canukistan that’s still a pretty good payday. And this wet blanket flightschool drop out has the balls to come here and lecture us about how terrible our job is? He thinks he’s going to make more money driving a forklift? Good luck.
My job was great, there are very few jobs in this country that will pay an early 30 year old 200k plus. Buck up newlygrounded, it’s going to be a tough life for a whiner like you.

I’m not defending the young guys comments, but it is absolutely scary to read what you just wrote. You clearly have no idea just how far we have fallen in wages. How on earth are we ever going to fix our situation when we have individuals who boast about how great our 20-30% losses have been over the last 15 years?

I just finished reading the latest P4C newsletter, and you posted….

I’m not defending the drop in Wawcon, but I blame Canadian society as a whole as much as I blame ACPA or the company or anyone else. Look at our doctors, lawyers, tech workers ect. All make 30% plus less than their american counterparts; significantly more in the case of our high tech sector brethren. Our fellow Canadians rue the thought of anyone getting ahead and it hampers our ability to conduct job action. As that white paper commissioned after FOS stated politicians couldn’t let a group of people who’s average salary at that time was 174000 per year strike for more money, effectively shutting down domestic and international travel throughout this county and expect not to feel blowback from the electorate. I’m not saying it’s right, I’m just saying what it is. If your expecting me to cry in my soup about ONLY making 200 grand at 30 years old with a highschool education your going to be sorely disappointed, I swear some people on this site can no longer see the forest through the trees.

Do I want to make more money? Of course. I will vote for those who look like they can get the job done, I’d walk the line if given the opportunity but will I let the thought that there are pilots in the world who make more than me consume me day and night to the point of becoming bitter and hateful like some you come across? No.

[Fanblade]

Don’t worry about this guy, he’s a never was, a downer. There were 28 year olds at AC precovid making 200k+ as narrowbody captains who are currently sitting on reinstatement rights to get back into it as soon as it turns around. Sure you can make more as an American pilot but in Canukistan that’s still a pretty good payday. And this wet blanket flightschool drop out has the balls to come here and lecture us about how terrible our job is? He thinks he’s going to make more money driving a forklift? Good luck.
My job was great, there are very few jobs in this country that will pay an early 30 year old 200k plus. Buck up newlygrounded, it’s going to be a tough life for a whiner like you.

I’m not defending the young guys comments, but it is absolutely scary to read what you just wrote. You clearly have no idea just how far we have fallen in wages. How on earth are we ever going to fix our situation when we have individuals who boast about how great our 20-30% losses have been over the last 15 years?

I just finished reading the latest P4C newsletter, and you posted….

I’m not defending the drop in Wawcon, but I blame Canadian society as a whole as much as I blame ACPA or the company or anyone else. Look at our doctors, lawyers, tech workers ect. All make 30% plus less than there american counterpart significantly more in the case of our high tech sector brethren. Our fellow Canadians rue the though of anyone getting ahead and it hampers our ability to conduct job action. As that white paper commissioned after FOS stated politicians couldn’t let a group of people who’s average salary at that time was 174000 per year strike for more money, effectively shutting down domestic and international travel throughout this county and expect not to feel blowback from the electorate. I’m not saying it’s right, I’m just saying what it is. If your expecting me to cry in my soup about ONLY making 200 grand at 30 years old with a highschool education your going to be sorely disappointed, I swear some people on this site can no longer see the forest through the trees.

Something doesn’t add up with your math. How much overtime are you doing?

By the way very few professionals have not kept up with inflation over the last two decades. We are way way behind. I have first hand knowledge of what doctors get paid. They have kept up with inflation.

I know a 28 year old making over 400K. The hours are killing her though.

[Sharklasers]

I’m not defending the young guys comments, but it is absolutely scary to read what you just wrote. You clearly have no idea just how far we have fallen in wages. How on earth are we ever going to fix our situation when we have individuals who boast about how great our 20-30% losses have been over the last 15 years?

I just finished reading the latest P4C newsletter, and you posted….

I’m not defending the drop in Wawcon, but I blame Canadian society as a whole as much as I blame ACPA or the company or anyone else. Look at our doctors, lawyers, tech workers ect. All make 30% plus less than there american counterpart significantly more in the case of our high tech sector brethren. Our fellow Canadians rue the though of anyone getting ahead and it hampers our ability to conduct job action. As that white paper commissioned after FOS stated politicians couldn’t let a group of people who’s average salary at that time was 174000 per year strike for more money, effectively shutting down domestic and international travel throughout this county and expect not to feel blowback from the electorate. I’m not saying it’s right, I’m just saying what it is. If your expecting me to cry in my soup about ONLY making 200 grand at 30 years old with a highschool education your going to be sorely disappointed, I swear some people on this site can no longer see the forest through the trees.

Something doesn’t add up with your math. How much overtime are you doing?

By the way very few professionals have not kept up with inflation over the last two decades. We are way way behind. I have first hand knowledge of what doctors get paid. They have kept up with inflation.

I know a 28 year old making over 400K. The hours are killing her though.

Your right, I’m using precovid numbers. Right now I’m only making 13800 dollars a month sitting on my ass. Do you refute the claim that doctors make more in the states?

[Fanblade]

I’m not defending the drop in Wawcon, but I blame Canadian society as a whole as much as I blame ACPA or the company or anyone else. Look at our doctors, lawyers, tech workers ect. All make 30% plus less than there american counterpart significantly more in the case of our high tech sector brethren. Our fellow Canadians rue the though of anyone getting ahead and it hampers our ability to conduct job action. As that white paper commissioned after FOS stated politicians couldn’t let a group of people who’s average salary at that time was 174000 per year strike for more money, effectively shutting down domestic and international travel throughout this county and expect not to feel blowback from the electorate. I’m not saying it’s right, I’m just saying what it is. If your expecting me to cry in my soup about ONLY making 200 grand at 30 years old with a highschool education your going to be sorely disappointed, I swear some people on this site can no longer see the forest through the trees.

Something doesn’t add up with your math. How much overtime are you doing?

By the way very few professionals have not kept up with inflation over the last two decades. We are way way behind. I have first hand knowledge of what doctors get paid. They have kept up with inflation.

I know a 28 year old making over 400K. The hours are killing her though.

Your right, I’m using precovid numbers. Right now I’m only making 14500 dollars a month sitting on my ass. Do you refute the claim that doctors make more in the states?

Gonna have to call BS or your older than 30.

Doctors absolutely make more in the US. Pilots always have too. Just not to the gaping extreme it has now become in really only the last few years.

[Sharklasers]

Something doesn’t add up with your math. How much overtime are you doing?

By the way very few professionals have not kept up with inflation over the last two decades. We are way way behind. I have first hand knowledge of what doctors get paid. They have kept up with inflation.

I know a 28 year old making over 400K. The hours are killing her though.

Your right, I’m using precovid numbers. Right now I’m only making 14500 dollars a month sitting on my ass. Do you refute the claim that doctors make more in the states?

Gonna have to call BS or your older than 30.

Doctors absolutely make more in the US. Pilots always have too. Just not to the gaping extreme it has now become in really only the last few years.

It’s 13808, I checked the 8/17 stub after posting.
My point being that the job is still pretty good, much better than driving a forklift as some would claim. I’d love to get paid more and will support an effort to make that happen.

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

Your right, I’m using precovid numbers. Right now I’m only making 14500 dollars a month sitting on my ass. Do you refute the claim that doctors make more in the states?

Gonna have to call BS or your older than 30.

Doctors absolutely make more in the US. Pilots always have too. Just not to the gaping extreme it has now become in really only the last few years.

It’s 13808, I checked the 8/17 stub after posting.
My point being that the job is still pretty good, much better than driving a forklift as some would claim. I’d love to get paid more and will support an effort to make that happen.

I wish I was as lucky as you.

[SMD]

I’m not defending the drop in Wawcon, but I blame Canadian society as a whole as much as I blame ACPA or the company or anyone else. Look at our doctors, lawyers, tech workers ect. All make 30% plus less than there american counterpart significantly more in the case of our high tech sector brethren. Our fellow Canadians rue the though of anyone getting ahead and it hampers our ability to conduct job action. As that white paper commissioned after FOS stated politicians couldn’t let a group of people who’s average salary at that time was 174000 per year strike for more money, effectively shutting down domestic and international travel throughout this county and expect not to feel blowback from the electorate. I’m not saying it’s right, I’m just saying what it is. If your expecting me to cry in my soup about ONLY making 200 grand at 30 years old with a highschool education your going to be sorely disappointed, I swear some people on this site can no longer see the forest through the trees.

Something doesn’t add up with your math. How much overtime are you doing?

By the way very few professionals have not kept up with inflation over the last two decades. We are way way behind. I have first hand knowledge of what doctors get paid. They have kept up with inflation.

I know a 28 year old making over 400K. The hours are killing her though.

Your right, I’m using precovid numbers. Right now I’m only making 13800 dollars a month sitting on my ass. Do you refute the claim that doctors make more in the states?

You are an absolute piece of garbage, a beneficiary of a government handout loan. I can’t imagine your furloughed pilots are very pleased to hear you brag about your windfall gain.

[altiplano]

You are an absolute piece of garbage, a beneficiary of a government handout loan.

Government handout loan?

Hasn't been touched... with billions in unrestricted liquidity, and recovery underway I'm not sure it will.

Screenshot_20210812-001124.png (130.29 KiB) Viewed 2035 times

[SMD]

Good to hear, as a tax payer I would like it back.

[the-minister31]

Something doesn’t add up with your math. How much overtime are you doing?

By the way very few professionals have not kept up with inflation over the last two decades. We are way way behind. I have first hand knowledge of what doctors get paid. They have kept up with inflation.

I know a 28 year old making over 400K. The hours are killing her though.

Your right, I’m using precovid numbers. Right now I’m only making 13800 dollars a month sitting on my ass. Do you refute the claim that doctors make more in the states?

You are an absolute piece of garbage, a beneficiary of a government handout loan. I can’t imagine your furloughed pilots are very pleased to hear you brag about your windfall gain.

I agree it does not look good to brag about that, but the only government help I know of that AC uses to pay it's pilots is CEWS. Which is available to any other company (and employee) in Canada. Can someone confirm that?

[altiplano]

Good to hear, as a tax payer I would like it back.

"as a tax payer"

Right...

You'd like what back?

Nothing to get back... as I pointed out, the loan has not been drawn on. In fact currently Canada is ahead in the transaction as the shares they received have appreciated.

[Sharklasers]

Something doesn’t add up with your math. How much overtime are you doing?

By the way very few professionals have not kept up with inflation over the last two decades. We are way way behind. I have first hand knowledge of what doctors get paid. They have kept up with inflation.

I know a 28 year old making over 400K. The hours are killing her though.

Your right, I’m using precovid numbers. Right now I’m only making 13800 dollars a month sitting on my ass. Do you refute the claim that doctors make more in the states?

You are an absolute piece of garbage, a beneficiary of a government handout loan. I can’t imagine your furloughed pilots are very pleased to hear you brag about your windfall gain.

I’d like to thank SMD for helping prove my original point, the low achievers hate seeing anyone that have more than them, it enrages them. For a large percentage of Canadians when they see someone getting ahead they see it as their duty to try and drag them back into the bucket. Instead of trying to improve his own lot in life our friend SMD has spent his time trying to find a way to make everyone’s life worse to match his. SMD would have rather had many more pilot laid off even though it made no material difference to him but it would have made him feel better to see people struggle.

My pay doesn’t reflect a ‘windfall gain’ it’s a significant paycut compared to precovid on our LOU reduced block. I’m not going to give it back, I would love to fly more but the fact remains that the flying is still reduced in this country.

[altiplano]

It feels like it's getting busier... More flights... full flights... airports seem busier... no doubt we still aren't "there" but we're headed there. We are short. Reserves are fully utilized. The draft hogs are at the trough... hard to believe it if we don't see some recalls in the bid this week... then again we'll probably see an MOA for extension/addition of some sort of concession first.

Remember that the corporation will hold their hole cards close and represent a crap hand for as long as they can. Accounting, shifting of assets, changing timelines for debt... they have enormous flexibility in how they position debts and profits. They will use it to get us to splash the pot, put more on the table... 2023 is a reopener remember, the last reopener before full negots in 2024.

Remember 2014? "Do you think you'll do better in 2016" was the line... how'd that turn out. As soon as we signed we went to 6 years of record profit and watched every other Legacy pilot group leave us in the dust while we made continued concessions on a subinflationary contract based on an already cut level rate from 10 years earlier that we have only just caught up to...

Ten years - Never again. 4 years with immediate uplift to '02 rates corrected for COL.

[newlygrounded]

Who jumps into a field without looking ahead or at least at the current state of the industry they want to get into?

So I looked ahead in 2014 when I "jumped into this field". Are you telling me that the last 18 months was predictable? How about 9/11? How many pilots trained and pursued this career post 9/11, SARS-1??? the number is not zero. Again more fallacious thinking to think that we can ever look ahead of the present and fortune tell what will happen.

You might just be kicking yourself in a year or two or you may not be.. Fortune telling as you're doing isn't productive.

Don’t worry about this guy, he’s a never was, a downer. There were 28 year olds at AC precovid making 200k+ as narrowbody captains who are currently sitting on reinstatement rights to get back into it as soon as it turns around. Sure you can make more as an American pilot but in Canukistan that’s still a pretty good payday. And this wet blanket flightschool drop out has the balls to come here and lecture us about how terrible our job is? He thinks he’s going to make more money driving a forklift? Good luck.
My job is great, there are very few jobs in this country that will pay an early 30 year old 200k plus. Buck up newlygrounded, it’s going to be a tough life for a whiner like you.
For the rest of us it sounds like some good news coming down the pipe on Friday, we will be off to the races before you know it.

I'm doing quite well in my current career, it's part of why I'm hesitant to be a pilot. If you want to brag how great the industry is, lets ask some people who did pilot in waiting for a year then got laid off when covid hit. For every guy making 200k there are at least 40 or 50 making $30k or less.

[altiplano]

If you want to brag how great the industry is, lets ask some people who did pilot in waiting for a year then got laid off when covid hit. For every guy making 200k there are at least 40 or 50 making $30k or less.

Been there, done that 20 years ago...

I would posit that most in this position have spent their years cleaning the shitter with empty promises and hussling to keep their heads above water.

It can be a long hard road for some (most), some lose the road all together... whereas straight into the fast lane for a few... success not guaranteed in anything worth achieving.

You should totally stay in the current career you're "doing quite well at."

[Curiousflyer]

I'm doing quite well in my current career, it's part of why I'm hesitant to be a pilot.

This industry isn’t worth getting into any later than your early twenties. All your income hopes depend on “making up for it” later in your career. Go into education or healthcare, heck x ray and ultrasound techs will make more than you the first 15 years of your career, possibly longer if you don’t get lucky and hired at an airline.

[QKZXKV]

Who jumps into a field without looking ahead or at least at the current state of the industry they want to get into?

So I looked ahead in 2014 when I "jumped into this field". Are you telling me that the last 18 months was predictable? How about 9/11? How many pilots trained and pursued this career post 9/11, SARS-1??? the number is not zero. Again more fallacious thinking to think that we can ever look ahead of the present and fortune tell what will happen.

You might just be kicking yourself in a year or two or you may not be.. Fortune telling as you're doing isn't productive.

Don’t worry about this guy, he’s a never was, a downer. There were 28 year olds at AC precovid making 200k+ as narrowbody captains who are currently sitting on reinstatement rights to get back into it as soon as it turns around. Sure you can make more as an American pilot but in Canukistan that’s still a pretty good payday. And this wet blanket flightschool drop out has the balls to come here and lecture us about how terrible our job is? He thinks he’s going to make more money driving a forklift? Good luck.
My job is great, there are very few jobs in this country that will pay an early 30 year old 200k plus. Buck up newlygrounded, it’s going to be a tough life for a whiner like you.
For the rest of us it sounds like some good news coming down the pipe on Friday, we will be off to the races before you know it.

Well said...

The parts that bother me are the ones about "making more in a current job"... ok then the industry's initial short comings/risk is a you problem for "newlygrounded". Can't handle the heat get out of the kitchen but don't criticize it for the rest of us or make up some nonsensical "thanks ACPA" for his failure in getting into the industry.

In my experience over the years the one who bash the working conditions/lifestyle are the ones who were destined to not make it past their PPL or complete their CPL training. This much is evident here.

[Fanblade]

So I looked ahead in 2014 when I "jumped into this field". Are you telling me that the last 18 months was predictable? How about 9/11? How many pilots trained and pursued this career post 9/11, SARS-1??? the number is not zero. Again more fallacious thinking to think that we can ever look ahead of the present and fortune tell what will happen.

You might just be kicking yourself in a year or two or you may not be.. Fortune telling as you're doing isn't productive.

Don’t worry about this guy, he’s a never was, a downer. There were 28 year olds at AC precovid making 200k+ as narrowbody captains who are currently sitting on reinstatement rights to get back into it as soon as it turns around. Sure you can make more as an American pilot but in Canukistan that’s still a pretty good payday. And this wet blanket flightschool drop out has the balls to come here and lecture us about how terrible our job is? He thinks he’s going to make more money driving a forklift? Good luck.
My job is great, there are very few jobs in this country that will pay an early 30 year old 200k plus. Buck up newlygrounded, it’s going to be a tough life for a whiner like you.
For the rest of us it sounds like some good news coming down the pipe on Friday, we will be off to the races before you know it.

Well said...

The parts that bother me are the ones about "making more in a current job"... ok then the industry's initial short comings/risk is a you problem for "newlygrounded". Can't handle the heat get out of the kitchen but don't criticize it for the rest of us or make up some nonsensical "thanks ACPA" for his failure in getting into the industry.

In my experience over the years the one who bash the working conditions/lifestyle are the ones who were destined to not make it past their PPL or complete their CPL training. This much is evident here.

Neither of you read the latest P4C newsletter did you?

Another chart and it’s sobering. Actually it made me angry. Maybe go find it before you keep posting