Canada to mandate vaccination for all airline workers

[yhz41]

I can see the violation of some charter for employees ,but as far as passengers go...travel is a privilege not a right. I'm sure there will be some way around that for those who can't be vaccinated (children) just like for the "mandatory" vaccines to attend school.

No it is a right

6. (1) Every citizen of Canada has the right to enter, remain in and leave Canada.

(2) Every citizen of Canada and every person who has the status of a permanent resident of Canada has the right:

to move to and take up residence in any province; aand to pursue the gaining of a livelihood in any province.

Yeah so like I said....an issue for employees... But point 1 there does not say right to enter and leave Canada via airplane.

[betster]

Some people aren't actually scared of covid themselves but they fear for their small children and for the immunocomprimised. They may not fear death but fear long covid, lung damage. Some people care about others.

[‘Bob’]

I can see the violation of some charter for employees ,but as far as passengers go...travel is a privilege not a right. I'm sure there will be some way around that for those who can't be vaccinated (children) just like for the "mandatory" vaccines to attend school.

No it is a right

6. (1) Every citizen of Canada has the right to enter, remain in and leave Canada.

(2) Every citizen of Canada and every person who has the status of a permanent resident of Canada has the right:

to move to and take up residence in any province; aand to pursue the gaining of a livelihood in any province.

So?

You need a SIN to pursue gaining a livelihood in Canada. Does that violate the Charter, too?

Does the requirement to get a pilot medical violate the charter?

Nobody is denying your rights to movement and employment. Every single one of those has limitations and conditions attached.

If you don’t want vaccines, then you are more than free to find another job.

Aviation is the wrong industry to be in if you don’t like government interference. I wonder how any of you even got here? LMAO

[TailwheelPilot]

I wonder how much this will affect passenger loads, there are still plenty of places where WHO-approved (but not Health Canada-approved) vaccines are widely available.

[Redneck_pilot86]

Operating a vehicle is my right, how dare anyone say I have to have a document (licence) that allows me to do so!!!!!!!!

Actually it isn't. And under our shitty excuse for a charter, all your other rights fall under the reasonable exception(article 1) The Politico's are the ones that decide what is reasonable.

Nor is a licence required to operate a vehicle. Its required ON PUBLIC ROADS. Private property? Fill your boots.

[deadbear]

If these Covid shots actually worked you might have a point.

If these Covid shots were actually safe and effective you might have a point.

If multiple safe an effective treatment options didn't exist you might have a point.

If Covid was actually a risk to someone who has a healthy immune system you might have a point.

All those who think this is ok you are welcoming vaccine passports and a new social credit system. This will be the end of all free movement. The inch you are welcoming will soon be a mile.

LA now wants to block all unvaccinated from entering any public space including a grocery store. Ask yourself why if the vaccine works would anyone need to block entry into a grocery store.

[Aviatard]

If these Covid shots actually worked you might have a point.

If these Covid shots were actually safe and effective you might have a point.

If multiple safe an effective treatment options didn't exist you might have a point.

If Covid was actually a risk to someone who has a healthy immune system you might have a point.

All those who think this is ok you are welcoming vaccine passports and a new social credit system. This will be the end of all free movement. The inch you are welcoming will soon be a mile.

LA now wants to block all unvaccinated from entering any public space including a grocery store. Ask yourself why if the vaccine works would anyone need to block entry into a grocery store.

Ok, so you've agreed there is a point.

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

If these Covid shots actually worked you might have a point.

If these Covid shots were actually safe and effective you might have a point.

If multiple safe an effective treatment options didn't exist you might have a point.

If Covid was actually a risk to someone who has a healthy immune system you might have a point.

All those who think this is ok you are welcoming vaccine passports and a new social credit system. This will be the end of all free movement. The inch you are welcoming will soon be a mile.

LA now wants to block all unvaccinated from entering any public space including a grocery store. Ask yourself why if the vaccine works would anyone need to block entry into a grocery store.

Those are a lot of ifs that you are trying to use to imply that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are not safe, effective, and worthwhile. You also are trying to pretend that COVID does not have serious risks.

Let me correct your thinking.

The vaccines are very effective at preventing death and hospitalization in people who catch COVID. COVID is very a serious illness that damages the cells and tissues that line the air sacs in your lungs.

If you are so confident that COVID is not an issue, go to the hospital and walk into the COVID ward without a mask. I'm sure you won't be talking so much shit when it feels like there is broken glass in your lungs.

[TG]

Don't understand why people are afraid of a vaccine. Is it actual fear or just ego.

I don’t understand why people are afraid of covid. If you have a vaccine, what more do you need to feel safe?

Because they’re constantly being fed verbal diarrhoea 24/7 on TV that the unvaccinated are responsible for spreading all the WuFlu.

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.” ~ Joseph Goebbels

Do you realize (probably not otherwise you won’t be posting this kind of things) That the more a virus is transmitted the more it is given options to mutate?
That a virus can mutate enough to annihilate its vaccin?

How about that as real fear mongering? You can call me chicken about it I do not care

[geodoc]

GOAL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BigQ]

I don’t understand why people are afraid of covid. If you have a vaccine, what more do you need to feel safe?

Because they’re constantly being fed verbal diarrhoea 24/7 on TV that the unvaccinated are responsible for spreading all the WuFlu.

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.” ~ Joseph Goebbels

Do you realize (probably not otherwise you won’t be posting this kind of things) That the more a virus is transmitted the more it is given options to mutate?
That a virus can mutate enough to annihilate its vaccin?

How about that as real fear mongering? You can call me chicken about it I do not care

A virus ALWAYS naturally mutates towards higher transmissibility and/or lower virulence.

Think about it. Anything biological wishes to survive for as long as possible. When barriers were erected to reduce transmissibility (mask wearing, etc), only a higher transmissible virus survived. And if a virus kills its' host too quickly, it reduces its' ability to reproduce, hence why the Delta variant is of higher transmissibility, but has about a 10x lower hospitalization rate than the original Covid strain.

Over time, covid WILL degenerate to a "slightly stronger cold". That is why it is not desirable to reach a "covid zero" society. That is also why it is not desirable to have a 100% vaccinated population.

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

Because they’re constantly being fed verbal diarrhoea 24/7 on TV that the unvaccinated are responsible for spreading all the WuFlu.

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.” ~ Joseph Goebbels

Do you realize (probably not otherwise you won’t be posting this kind of things) That the more a virus is transmitted the more it is given options to mutate?
That a virus can mutate enough to annihilate its vaccin?

How about that as real fear mongering? You can call me chicken about it I do not care

A virus ALWAYS naturally mutates towards higher transmissibility and/or lower virulence.

Think about it. Anything biological wishes to survive for as long as possible. When barriers were erected to reduce transmissibility (mask wearing, etc), only a higher transmissible virus survived. And if a virus kills its' host too quickly, it reduces its' ability to reproduce, hence why the Delta variant is of higher transmissibility, but has about a 10x lower hospitalization rate than the original Covid strain.

Over time, covid WILL degenerate to a "slightly stronger cold". That is why it is not desirable to reach a "covid zero" society. That is also why it is not desirable to have a 100% vaccinated population.

"A virus ALWAYS naturally mutates towards higher transmissibility and/or lower virulence."

That is categorically false. Viruses mutate, true, but they mutate for the better and for the worse. What you are conflating with "always naturally" mutating toward a more effective (from the virus' point of view) is actually natural evolution. The traits that cause a living creature to increase it's population more quickly usually is the trait that will survive whereas a trait that causes it's procreation to slow is something that usually will fail. It's not always the case, but definitely a good rule of thumb.

"Over time, covid WILL degenerate to a "slightly stronger cold". That is why it is not desirable to reach a "covid zero" society. That is also why it is not desirable to have a 100% vaccinated population."

That's an optimistic guess, but it's nothing more than just an uneducated guess from someone not educated in the matter.

[CpnCrunch]

Delta variant is of higher transmissibility, but has about a 10x lower hospitalization rate than the original Covid strain.

What data is that based on? I can only find one study, and it found delta caused 1.85x the hospitalisation rate of the original strain:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanc ... 1/fulltext

We do have much lower hospitalisation rate right now, but that is probably mostly due to vaccination.

[Inverted2]

I don’t understand why people are afraid of covid. If you have a vaccine, what more do you need to feel safe?

Because they’re constantly being fed verbal diarrhoea 24/7 on TV that the unvaccinated are responsible for spreading all the WuFlu.

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.” ~ Joseph Goebbels

Do you realize (probably not otherwise you won’t be posting this kind of things) That the more a virus is transmitted the more it is given options to mutate?
That a virus can mutate enough to annihilate its vaccin?

How about that as real fear mongering? You can call me chicken about it I do not care

Are you also aware that viruses are smart and will find ways (mutate) around the vaccines which are likely to be ineffective in the very near future? Ever hear what happens when antibiotics are over prescribed? Drug resistant bacteria.

[altiplano]

Delta variant is of higher transmissibility, but has about a 10x lower hospitalization rate than the original Covid strain.

What data is that based on? I can only find one study, and it found delta caused 1.85x the hospitalisation rate of the original strain:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanc ... 1/fulltext

We do have much lower hospitalisation rate right now, but that is probably mostly due to vaccination.

Here you go. 10x is perhaps another statistic, but here's the UK.

Alpha v. Delta

Look at "exclusion" cases... "inclusion" includes people that aren't at the hospital for covid but are discovered to have covid when there.

5.4% v. 3.5% of cases visited a healthcare provider.
54% higher rate for a medical visit Alpha v. Delta


2.0% v. 1.0 of cases were admitted overnight.
100% higher rate for a hospital overnight Alpha v. Delta

1.1% v. 0.2% of cases resulted in death.
550% higher rate of death with Alpha v. Delta

Screenshot_20210815-220156.png (417.45 KiB) Viewed 1620 times

[CpnCrunch]

Here you go. 10x is perhaps another statistic, but here's the UK.

Alpha v. Delta

Look at "exclusion" cases... "inclusion" includes people that aren't at the hospital for covid but are discovered to have covid when there.

5.4% v. 3.5% of cases visited a healthcare provider.
54% higher rate for a medical visit Alpha v. Delta


2.0% v. 1.0 of cases were admitted overnight.
100% higher rate for a hospital overnight Alpha v. Delta

1.1% v. 0.2% of cases resulted in death.
550% higher rate of death with Alpha v. Delta

Screenshot_20210815-220156.png

Youre not loking at vaccination status.

[altiplano]

Here you go. 10x is perhaps another statistic, but here's the UK.

Alpha v. Delta

Look at "exclusion" cases... "inclusion" includes people that aren't at the hospital for covid but are discovered to have covid when there.

5.4% v. 3.5% of cases visited a healthcare provider.
54% higher rate for a medical visit Alpha v. Delta


2.0% v. 1.0 of cases were admitted overnight.
100% higher rate for a hospital overnight Alpha v. Delta

1.1% v. 0.2% of cases resulted in death.
550% higher rate of death with Alpha v. Delta

Screenshot_20210815-220156.png

Youre not loking at vaccination status.

I'm addressing the claimed statistic.

Here's Delta based on vaccination status.

Screenshot_20210816-073752.png (465.92 KiB) Viewed 2284 times

[CpnCrunch]

I'm addressing the claimed statistic.

Here's Delta based on vaccination status.

Screenshot_20210816-073752.png

It doesn't show the claimed statistic (alpha vs delta for unvaccinated).

[altiplano]

I didn't claim any statistic. I showed you the actual data and statistics published by Public Health in the UK.

If you're looking for something else you'll have to go find it yourself.

Interesting that of 300,010 Delta cases in the UK, 151,054 (50.3%) are among unvaccinated individuals.

Of 151,054 unvaccinated Delta cases, 253 (0.1%) died.

Of 148,956 various levels of vaccinated Delta cases, 488 (0.3%) died.

Of 47,008 fully vaccinated Delta cases, 402 (0.8%) died.

Seems to go against conventional thought here...

[CpnCrunch]

I didn't claim any statistic. I showed you the actual data and statistics published by Public Health in the UK.

If you're looking for something else you'll have to go find it yourself.

We were discussing hospitalisation rate of alpha vs delta, which your data doesn't give. If you want to figure it out, go ahead. I Provided a peer reviewed article which does give the data for Scotland.

Interesting that of 300,010 Delta cases in the UK, 151,054 (50.3%) are among unvaccinated individuals.

Of 151,054 unvaccinated Delta cases, 253 (0.1%) died.

Of 148,956 various levels of vaccinated Delta cases, 488 (0.3%) died.

Of 47,008 fully vaccinated Delta cases, 402 (0.8%) died.

Seems to go against conventional thought here...

Yes, it's odd. Maybe a lot of vaccinated people aren't getting tested.

[altiplano]

hospitalisation rate of alpha vs delta, which your data doesn't give.

Pretty sure it does... maybe take another look.

Table 4. Attendance to emergency care and deaths of confirmed and provisional cases in England (1 February 2021 to 2 August 2021)

Yes, it's odd. Maybe a lot of vaccinated people aren't getting tested.

I could see that.... That there are in fact even more breakthrough cases spreading among the vaccinated than acknowledged that would lower the vaccinated death rate to more closely resemble the unvaccinated death rate. ie. a comparable rate across the population regardless of vaccination status. Number of breakthrough cases asking fully vaccinated would have to nearly triple though to match unvaccinated death rate.

[CpnCrunch]

hospitalisation rate of alpha vs delta, which your data doesn't give.

Pretty sure it does... maybe take another look.

Table 4. Attendance to emergency care and deaths of confirmed and provisional cases in England (1 February 2021 to 2 August 2021)

Yes, it's odd. Maybe a lot of vaccinated people aren't getting tested.

I could see that.... That there are in fact even more breakthrough cases spreading among the vaccinated than acknowledged that would lower the vaccinated death rate to more closely resemble the unvaccinated death rate. ie. a comparable rate across the population regardless of vaccination status. Number of breakthrough cases asking fully vaccinated would have to nearly triple though to match unvaccinated death rate.

94% of English adults have antibodies to covid-19 now, through a combination of prior infection and vaccination:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... antibodies

So both are likely causing this, rather than delta being less harmful.

[altiplano]

Interesting.

I would expect to see similar numbers in Canada.

I wonder if the unvaccinated with antibodies are spreading the virus like the vaccinated are?

94% and yet we're pushing for forced vaccinations under threat of personal ruin?

What's the government goal here again?

[readyou5by5]

What's the government goal here again?

Their goal is to turn us against each other so we don't fight them.

[gr8_2_av8]

Don't understand why people are afraid of a vaccine. Is it actual fear or just ego.

Because some of us get our information from other than the CBC....