Take the vaccine, or lose your job - WTF?

[tango308]

And for what? Something that is 99%+ survivable and vaccines that (they are trying to hide) don’t actually work.

If we go by your reasoning:

Before seatbelts, every traffic fatality had no seatbelt.
After seatbelts, most traffic fatalities had a seatbelt on.
Therefore seatbelts don't work and you can't force me to wear one.

[dialdriver]

vaccines that (they are trying to hide) don’t actually work.

How come the hospitals are full of mostly unvaccinated? Please tell.

[Inverted2]

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/30/duke-un ... break.html

So Duke University with a 98% vaccination rate has an outbreak with 365 cases and all but 8 were fully immunized. Does that sound like the vaccines prevent Covid?

[alkaseltzer]

And for what? Something that is 99%+ survivable and vaccines that (they are trying to hide) don’t actually work.

If we go by your reasoning:

Before seatbelts, every traffic fatality had no seatbelt.
After seatbelts, most traffic fatalities had a seatbelt on.
Therefore seatbelts don't work and you can't force me to wear one.

Haha nailed it!!

[dialdriver]

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/30/duke-un ... break.html

So Duke University with a 98% vaccination rate has an outbreak with 365 cases and all but 8 were fully immunized. Does that sound like the vaccines prevent Covid?

Vaccines are not 100% effective, so yes.

[PC-SUN]

https://awakecanada.org/tactful-no/

[altiplano]

I think this is absolutely disgusting what they are doing. They say you aren’t forced to take it but they will take away everything in your life including the ability to work and provide for your family. And for what? Something that is 99%+ survivable and vaccines that (they are trying to hide) don’t actually work.

The fall/winter should be exciting though. I have a feeling some new “variants” will be released to shake things up a bit.

What are they going to say?

After mandatory vax, vax passports, and it still goes on... cases still rise...who are they going to blame then?

[Inverted2]

I think this is absolutely disgusting what they are doing. They say you aren’t forced to take it but they will take away everything in your life including the ability to work and provide for your family. And for what? Something that is 99%+ survivable and vaccines that (they are trying to hide) don’t actually work.

The fall/winter should be exciting though. I have a feeling some new “variants” will be released to shake things up a bit.

What are they going to say?

After mandatory vax, vax passports, and it still goes on... cases still rise...who are they going to blame then?

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/ ... tario.html

You’ll go to an “isolation site”. Voluntary (for now)

[altiplano]

I think this is absolutely disgusting what they are doing. They say you aren’t forced to take it but they will take away everything in your life including the ability to work and provide for your family. And for what? Something that is 99%+ survivable and vaccines that (they are trying to hide) don’t actually work.

The fall/winter should be exciting though. I have a feeling some new “variants” will be released to shake things up a bit.

What are they going to say?

After mandatory vax, vax passports, and it still goes on... cases still rise...who are they going to blame then?

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/ ... tario.html

You’ll go to an “isolation site”. Voluntary (for now)

Unreal. How long until those become mandatory?

Fucking covid ghettos.

[Inverted2]

Spoiler alert: door to door testing.

Sorry Mr. Altiplano, you tested positive and you have to come with us. We are from the government and we’re here to help.

[altiplano]

It's s fucking shame.

And to the vaxxed that think they are a privileged part of the new world? Well, I respect your decision, but I will feel sorry for you when they come for you despite your capitulation, to the vaccine, to the passport tracking, to the evolving rules.

It's the end of freedom.

[av8ts]

https://medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield ... AX=COVID19

Have you read most of those entries? They're hilarious.
"felt warm, hot and face and ears were red and flushed."
"Reported chest heaviness, shortness of breath and within 5 minutes developed rigors and urge to defecate"
"Sprite and peanut butter crackers given. Became nauseated after eating peanut butter crackers."

Keep in mind, officals often state that doctors only report about 10% of the actual cases... Its pretty scare when you multiply these numbers by 10.

It's very scary indeed, if they're giving peanut butter crackers to 10x as many people as they report. Where will this end?

I don't have the urge to read 632,000 reports... I read the stats - over 13,000 deaths from covid jabs... More dead in last 8 months then in the last 30 years of VAERS reporting in total!! But its amazing how you can spin this offical data by joking about crackers and peanuts....while you ignore the fact so many people died, 17,000 permanently disabled and over 1,400 dead babies during pregnancy alone... It's all funny until it hits close to home.

Anyone can submit a report to the VAERS website. None of these deaths have been verified

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/mobile.reut ... SL1N2P21CV

[TG]

The fall/winter should be exciting though. I have a feeling some new “variants” will be released to shake things up a bit.

Thanks to the unvaccinated! But to be fair, the majority of them would rather be! (Vaccinated)
If you wonder, I'm referring to the new "Mu" Variant and the people in Colombia and Ecuador...

[TheStig]

We can debate the efficacy of the vaccines or the dangers of COVID as much as anyone wishes to, however, pilots who are not fully vaccinated will not be getting paid to fly Air Canada metal in November.

Do you believe that this should be our new forever normal?

What's your opinion of non disclosed status pilots being put out? Justified by AC?

Do you think it's the company or the Trudeau announcement that created this situation?

If pilots are accommodated with an LOA, how long do you think is reasonable? Or what yard stick should we use to say this is behind us?

Do you thinj they should be terminated as some suggest?

Do you think it's reasonable that ACPA won't represent these pilots, but will represent people who have had significant and illegal transgressions?

I ask because I usually appreciate your position as informed and reasonable.

Same with you rudder.

It's this really what we want to live under? And until when?

Thanks altiplano, I don't always agree with your positions but appreciate your conviction. My answers are pretty much going to be a bunch of rambling mush because I don't see any of this as black and white.

I still have to take my shoes off from time to time to because 20 years ago some guy unsuccessfully tried to blow up an airplane with a shoe bomb. COVID restrictions are going to continue for the foreseeable future, especially for the unvaccinated. Once restrictions get put in place nobody ever seems to have the testicular fortitude to be responsible for removing them. I don't like slippery slopes either, today its vaccine mandates, tomorrow its one child policies. COVID has been a deadly global pandemic but I certainly wouldn't agree with a lifelong booster mandate, but once we have an immunization mandate where does it stop?

I do think the federal mandate made this a forgone conclusion and I do agree with the companies position on this. They are required to follow federal restrictions. Nobody should face termination, LOA or suspension is sufficient.

The restrictions and passports that are popping up now are because of two things; 1) The Delta variant 2) They're popular politically. I don't think public policies affecting personal freedoms should be a popularity contest. However, as we've all seen in the past two years things change. It sucks but there is no yardstick.

Most of us spent 18 months working exposed to this virus, some catching it (and building anti-bodies), and now we're supposed to be okay with loosing our sole source of income if we're not vaccinated? That's bullshit, but life is not always fair.

Things change, the virus changed everything, it's the enemy. Vaccines are the way to change a pandemic in to an endemic they prevent severe illness and death by orders of x15. COVID19 brought the world to a stop, hospitals at capacity and people dying in their homes and vaccinations make it about as dangerous as the common flu. Some guy flies his drone into your departure path and now you have an engine fire, deal with it. It wasn't your fault, but it's your problem now.

Our Great Grandfathers probably had other plans for their lives than living in the muddy trenches of WWI in an endless war that was supposed to be over in 6 months. Just like our Grandfathers in Lancasters or on Juno beach, they did what they had to do and moved on, so will we.

[DHC-1 Jockey]

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/30/duke-un ... break.html

So Duke University with a 98% vaccination rate has an outbreak with 365 cases and all but 8 were fully immunized. Does that sound like the vaccines prevent Covid?

No, it doesn't sound like vaccines are designed to prevent COVID, because... they're not designed to completely prevent COVID. They're mainly designed to reduce the chances that if you do get COVID that you'll end up in the hospital or dead. From John Hopkins University Medicine: "An effective vaccine will protect someone who receives it by lowering the chance of getting COVID-19 if the person encounters the coronavirus. More important is whether the vaccine prevents serious illness, hospitalization and death".

When you read this CNBC story and come away from it saying that "Well, everyone was vaccinated and they STILL got COVID!!" you're missing the point. The real number to care about is how many of those 365 cases end up in the hospital or die from COVID.

Please don't conflate high vaccination rates and the fact that you can still get COVID as saying that the vaccine doesn't work. If none of those people die, I'd say it worked pretty well.

[RippleRock]

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/30/duke-un ... break.html

So Duke University with a 98% vaccination rate has an outbreak with 365 cases and all but 8 were fully immunized. Does that sound like the vaccines prevent Covid?

No, it doesn't sound like vaccines are designed to prevent COVID, because... they're not designed to completely prevent COVID. They're mainly designed to reduce the chances that if you do get COVID that you'll end up in the hospital or dead. From John Hopkins University Medicine: "An effective vaccine will protect someone who receives it by lowering the chance of getting COVID-19 if the person encounters the coronavirus. More important is whether the vaccine prevents serious illness, hospitalization and death".

When you read this CNBC story and come away from it saying that "Well, everyone was vaccinated and they STILL got COVID!!" you're missing the point. The real number to care about is how many of those 365 cases end up in the hospital or die from COVID.

Please don't conflate high vaccination rates and the fact that you can still get COVID as saying that the vaccine doesn't work. If none of those people die, I'd say it worked pretty well.

Agree 100%. Hospitalizations and deaths should be the ONLY metric used for further lockdown measures. We can take some comfort in the fact that the "minority" are now unvaccinated. The Delta variant will rip through their midst relatively quickly. I have little sympathy for those that end up sick or dead because of "anti-vax" theory based on Web nonsense, or simple stupidity. Those that can't take the Vaccine for medical reasons should be protected.

Next spring we should be in a different world, as you will either be vaxxed, or likely have already contracted it. Vaccines will be widespread and available to nearly all travellers having the means to purchase a ticket. My bet is on a very busy spring and summer.

[ikarus]

https://insiderpaper.com/israel-reports ... vid-cases/

[ikarus]

https://bigleaguepolitics.com/fully-vax ... lockdowns/

Gibraltar fully vaxxed mini state... Seeing a 2500% increase in cases?!?!

[altiplano]

Hundreds of hospitalisations of young people with cardiac issues following vaccination.

https://torontosun.com/news/provincial/ ... t-problems

[ayseven]

TheStig has nailed it for me. Thanks. People have too much time on their hands and get themselves in a tither. I don't remember my mum telling me life was going to be easy.

[cdnavater]

Hundreds of hospitalisations of young people with cardiac issues following vaccination.

https://torontosun.com/news/provincial/ ... t-problems

“Now a study in the US has analysed how often myocarditis occurs following infection with the coronavirus. Researchers analysed the records of healthcare organisations that cover a fifth of the US population. They found that, during the first 12 months of the pandemic, males aged 12 to 17 were most likely to develop myocarditis within three months of catching covid-19, at a rate of about 450 cases per million infections.

This compares with 67 cases of myocarditis per million males of the same age following their second dose of a Pfizer/BioNTech or Moderna vaccine, according to figures from the US Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices. Researchers added together cases after first and second doses to reach a total rate of 77 cases per million in this male age group triggered by vaccination, a sixth that seen after infection”


Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg ... z75V9pj3Wf

[SMD]

In Canada
88.6% of new cases are unvaccinated vs 1.1% vaccinated

84.8% of hospitalizations are unvaccinated vs 1.1% vaccinated

82% of deaths are unvaccinated vs 1.6% vaccinated.

Some people didn’t have a choice to get vaccinated but if you had a choice and didn’t get vaccinated, you asked for it.

I don’t care if you don’t get vaccinated but you are blocking up the healthcare system. Get sick and die on your own dime if you choose not to get vaccinated.

[photofly]

Hundreds of hospitalisations of young people with cardiac issues following vaccination.

https://torontosun.com/news/provincial/ ... t-problems

“Now a study in the US has analysed how often myocarditis occurs following infection with the coronavirus. Researchers analysed the records of healthcare organisations that cover a fifth of the US population. They found that, during the first 12 months of the pandemic, males aged 12 to 17 were most likely to develop myocarditis within three months of catching covid-19, at a rate of about 450 cases per million infections.

This compares with 67 cases of myocarditis per million males of the same age following their second dose of a Pfizer/BioNTech or Moderna vaccine, according to figures from the US Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices. Researchers added together cases after first and second doses to reach a total rate of 77 cases per million in this male age group triggered by vaccination, a sixth that seen after infection”


Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg ... z75V9pj3Wf

The missing information is what percentage of people who choose not to be vaccinated will ever contract COVID-19. If you think infection, sometime, is inevitable, then for myocarditis the vaccine is a better bet. If (using the statistics above) your chance of ever contracting COVID is better than about 1 in 6, then, again, considering only myocarditis, your risk is lower by remaining unvaccinated.

This is the reason why it’s actually beneficial for me to remain unvaccinated, while as many as possible other people are vaccinated: the inherent selfishness in the decision to refuse.

[Jimmy_Hoffa]

Hundreds of hospitalisations of young people with cardiac issues following vaccination.

https://torontosun.com/news/provincial/ ... t-problems

“Now a study in the US has analysed how often myocarditis occurs following infection with the coronavirus. Researchers analysed the records of healthcare organisations that cover a fifth of the US population. They found that, during the first 12 months of the pandemic, males aged 12 to 17 were most likely to develop myocarditis within three months of catching covid-19, at a rate of about 450 cases per million infections.

This compares with 67 cases of myocarditis per million males of the same age following their second dose of a Pfizer/BioNTech or Moderna vaccine, according to figures from the US Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices. Researchers added together cases after first and second doses to reach a total rate of 77 cases per million in this male age group triggered by vaccination, a sixth that seen after infection”


Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg ... z75V9pj3Wf

The missing information is what percentage of people who choose not to be vaccinated will ever contract COVID-19. If you think infection, sometime, is inevitable, then for myocarditis the vaccine is a better bet. If (using the statistics above) your chance of ever contracting COVID is better than about 1 in 6, then, again, considering only myocarditis, your risk is lower by remaining unvaccinated.

This is the reason why it’s actually beneficial for me to remain unvaccinated, while as many as possible other people are vaccinated: the inherent selfishness in the decision to refuse.

Genuine question. How long do you feeling is reasonable for foreign governments to accommodate unvaccinated Canadian nationals (Air Crew) wishing to travel to their country? Would you accept some sort of quarantine imposed on you? Hong Kong style?

Freedom of choice is not Freedom from consequences.

-Jimmy

[a220hereicome]

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/cathay-paci ... -1.1649306

Ouch.

Sincerely hoping there won't be any terminations in Canada over this issue. However, most of the legal opinions I've read say that the realistic accommodation an employee can hope for without a medical or religious exemption for vaccination is an unpaid leave. Not a great option for most, especially when you don't know how long Air Canada will keep that mandate in place.

Some difficult choices for members, and today is decision day. AC requires employees to report their vaccination status by September 8 or be considered unvaccinated.

A lot of statistics being thrown around, but for me, this is the one that makes the most compelling case for getting vaccinated:

https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data

If you look at COVID cases in ICU in Ontario (today September 8th), 88% are unvaccinated. 79% of hospitalizations (not necessarily ICU) due to COVID are unvaccinated. The vaccine is doing its job of significantly reducing the chance of serious illness to those who contract COVID.

So if you're choosing to not get vaccinated because you have a "different risk tolerance", then you're basically putting the burden on everybody else to keep the ICU and hospitalization numbers manageable.