Ivermectin-Disinformation of the century

[photofly]

All I'm saying is I have an open mind that there are alternatives.

We all have open minds.

Ongoing trials have shown success with ivermectin as both a treatment for and prophylactic against the virus.

That may be true, but if the trials are ongoing, they aren't complete. When there are supportable results - even interim results - we'll all be interested in them.

So why does the narrative seek to shut it down with misinformation like calling it a "horse dewormer"?

Because stupid people are buying and swallowing horse deworming tablets.

Why don't we hear anything about promising off label treatments?

We hear a great deal about off-label treatments. (Isn't that what we're doing in this thread?) But we wait for evidence that they work, and take them when manufactured in controlled facilities, for human consumption, in appropriate doses.

Fact is that it's cheap, it's widely available, it's safe, and be l based on the trials and wide usage of it, it looks like it's effective.

You mean, based on what you heard on youtube. That doesn't count. You are not qualified to say what's effective. Nor is youtube or "the internet". Clinical trials are required.

[altiplano]

Ivermectin is not just for horses! FFS the media is demonizing a potential tool in the fight to control this virus.
Most of us can agree that vaccines seem to work fairly well, but why are they the ONLY option recommended by the "experts"? Why are doctors not allowed to explore, or even f**king talk about, complimentary/alternative treatments? Why cant doctors decide what's in the best interest of their patients and prescribe medications accordingly? This relentless "vaccine only" propaganda is what makes me skeptical of the information we are being force fed by the mainstream media.
BTW, I did watch the Dr.Weinstien podcast with Dr.Kory. It's very informative and if you have some spare time I highly suggest watching it, if for nothing else, to hear another expert's perspective.
The absolute tragedy in all of this is how horribly divided that we as a society have become.

https://www.webmd.com/drug-medication/w ... ivermectin

When the company that manufactures it, says don’t use it, I mean come on! If it’s about money, how much would they make if they simply made no statement for or against?
No update since, however they are moving ahead with phase 3 of a new study to prevent the spread of Covid in a household.
After reading the possible side effects of ivermectin, wtf, I’ll gladly roll up my sleeve for the booster shot and the annual vaccine but I’m a sheep.

https://www.merck.com/news/merck-and-ri ... infection/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/joshuacohe ... a9d6d9ce09

“So, ivermectin has proven human uses, but Covid-19 is not one of them. And, the company that manufactures ivermectin, Merck, has explicitly stated this. There are several ongoing clinical trials involving ivermectin as a possible treatment of Covid-19. But, at present there aren’t any validated data on ivermectin’s efficacy against Covid-19 in people”

https://www.merck.com/news/merck-statem ... -pandemic/
“KENILWORTH, N.J., Feb. 4, 2021 – Merck (NYSE: MRK), known as MSD outside the United States and Canada, today affirmed its position regarding use of ivermectin during the COVID-19 pandemic. Company scientists continue to carefully examine the findings of all available and emerging studies of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19 for evidence of efficacy and safety. It is important to note that, to-date, our analysis has identified:

No scientific basis for a potential therapeutic effect against COVID-19 from pre-clinical studies;
No meaningful evidence for clinical activity or clinical efficacy in patients with COVID-19 disease, and;
A concerning lack of safety data in the majority of studies“

Ivermectin isn't a patented drug and is widely produced making it cheap and available.

Merck doesn't stand to make much or any money, they make money from pushing new drugs and vaccines that they own the IP to.

[photofly]

Merck is not the only player. Lots or organizations can and do carry out clinical trials on patent-expired drugs. I promise you that if a cheap actually effective treatment or prophylactic for COVID turns up, the whole world will hear about it, and through "mainstream media", health organizaitons, and national governments. Everybody wants that.

[altiplano]

All I'm saying is I have an open mind that there are alternatives.

We all have open minds.

Ongoing trials have shown success with ivermectin as both a treatment for and prophylactic against the virus.

That may be true, but if the trials are ongoing, they aren't complete. When there are supportable results, we'll all be interested in them.

So why does the narrative seek to shut it down with misinformation like calling it a "horse dewormer"?

Because stupid people are buying and swallowing horse deworming tablets.

Why don't we hear anything about promising off label treatments?

We hear a great deal about off-label treatments. (Isn't that what we're doing in this thread?) But we wait for evidence that they work, and take them when manufactured in controlled facilities, for human consumption, in appropriate doses.

Fact is that it's cheap, it's widely available, it's safe, and be l based on the trials and wide usage of it, it looks like it's effective.

You mean, based on what you heard on youtube. That doesn't count. You are not qualified to say what's effective. Nor is youtube or "the internet". Clinical trials are required.

Search ivermectin covid trials on Google and you will find them quickly. Registered and peer reviewed work using ivermectin as a treatment and preventative agent.

I haven't watched any youtubes about it.

[photofly]

.

Search ivermectin covid trials on Google and you will find them quickly. Registered and peer reviewed work using ivermectin as a treatment and preventative agent.

I haven't watched any youtubes about it.

Googling is not research.

I don't consider myself qualified to interpret clinical trial data, nor to decide which "peer-reviewed" work is trustworthy, and which isn't. In fact I pay taxes to have a entire medical establishment consisting of dozens of government agencies and organizations full of professionals who have dedicated their lives to relevant fields at my disposal to advise me what works and what doesn't, and a bunch of very capable physicians with decades of medical education and experience to prescribe them to me.

I waited for them do their work on vaccines, on hydroxychloroquine, and on dexamethazone. (I didn't waste much time hoping they would investigate the injection of bleach, to be fair.)

Why would I want to circumvent that system that's worked well to keep me healthy since birth?

[altiplano]

Merck is not the only player. Lots or organizations can and do carry out clinical trials on patent-expired drugs. I promise you that if a cheap actually effective treatment or prophylactic for COVID turns up, the whole world will hear about it, and through "mainstream media", health organizaitons, and national governments. Everybody wants that.

Satoshi Ōmura of Kitasato University and William Campbell of Merck developed ivermectin, but Merck doesn't stand to make any money if it's viable.

Indeed in Mercks own statement they say:
As the pandemic continues to evolve and surges are being reported in many places around the world, it is important that we investigate new ways to protect individuals exposed to the virus from becoming infected with symptomatic disease,” said Dr. Nick Kartsonis, senior vice president, vaccines and infectious diseases, clinical research, Merck Research Laboratories.


In the pharma industry, "new ways" pays.

That's a fact...

[altiplano]

.

Search ivermectin covid trials on Google and you will find them quickly. Registered and peer reviewed work using ivermectin as a treatment and preventative agent.

I haven't watched any youtubes about it.

Googling is not research.

I don't consider myself qualified to interpret clinical trial data, nor to decide which "peer-reviewed" work is trustworthy, and which isn't. In fact I pay taxes to have a entire medical establishment consisting of dozens of government agencies and organizations full of professionals who have dedicated their lives to relevant fields at my disposal to advise me what works and what doesn't, and a bunch of very capable physicians with decades of medical education and experience to prescribe them to me.

Why would I want to circumvent that system that's worked well to keep me healthy since birth?

Searching out and reading registered clinical trials qualifies as becoming informed on the issue in my world. What have you read? The media?

[photofly]

Once again, Merck is not the only organization able to conduct clinical trials on promising new COVID treaments and prophylactics. What Merck does or doesn't stand to gain isn't of much relevance.

[photofly]

Searching out and reading registered clinical trials qualifies as becoming informed on the issue in my world. What have you read? The media?

I like to read lots of things, but that makes me an informed and interested layperson, and doesn't qualify me to make decisions in fields in which I have no expertise or experience.

I don't let people who have read things on the internet tell me how to fly my airplane.

I like to read court judgments on relevant issues but when it comes to it, I take the advice of my lawyer.

I might enjoy reading medical papers too, but again, when it comes to it, I let the decisions as to what is an appropriate treatment be made by qualified doctors. I'm not one.

I understand that your base level of paranoia means you feel the only people who you can trust are those that tell you "the establishment" is lying to you. You see that as affirmation of the truth of everything else they tell you. I see it as convincing evidence of the untrustworthiness of everything they (and you) say.

On the facts, you might be right - but I'll wait for what I consider to be the sane universe - the people I trust - the establishment - to confirm it, using the methods and procedures that have worked well enough for modern medicine for the last hundred or so years.

[2R]

https://covid19criticalcare.com/

Double wrap your head in tin foil

A dollar a day treatment . No wonder they want it banned as those patent holders will go broke if they approve a drug used in India to slow the pandemic . Or heaven forbid a drug that is available over the counter in half the world for decades might work ?

[photofly]

Nothing is banned. You can take horse tablets all day if you like. It’s just not approved.

[TG]

https://covid19criticalcare.com/

Double wrap your head in tin foil

A dollar a day treatment . No wonder they want it banned as those patent holders will go broke if they approve a drug used in India to slow the pandemic . Or heaven forbid a drug that is available over the counter in half the world for decades might work ?

I see that the link comes from “FLCCC Alliance” (Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance) a 1’ minutes Google search shows that it was founded by Pierre Kory, critical care physician and big promoter of fringe ideas about COVID-19.

So yes, sure….. (I’m being sarcastic there)

[altiplano]

Searching out and reading registered clinical trials qualifies as becoming informed on the issue in my world. What have you read? The media?

I like to read lots of things, but that makes me an informed and interested layperson, and doesn't qualify me to make decisions in fields in which I have no expertise or experience.

I don't let people who have read things on the internet tell me how to fly my airplane.

I like to read court judgments on relevant issues but when it comes to it, I take the advice of my lawyer.

I might enjoy reading medical papers too, but again, when it comes to it, I let the decisions as to what is an appropriate treatment be made by qualified doctors. I'm not one.

I understand that your base level of paranoia means you feel the only people who you can trust are those that tell you "the establishment" is lying to you. You see that as affirmation of the truth of everything else they tell you. I see it as convincing evidence of the untrustworthiness of everything they (and you) say.

On the facts, you might be right - but I'll wait for what I consider to be the sane universe - the people I trust - the establishment - to confirm it, using the methods and procedures that have worked well enough for modern medicine for the last hundred or so years.

You like to not question or challenge authority. You want to be told what to do, what's best for you.

You believe only a selected class of technocrats can determine the best direction for you. To weigh the costs and benefits for you.

That's your right, and you fit right in...

[altiplano]

https://covid19criticalcare.com/

Double wrap your head in tin foil

A dollar a day treatment . No wonder they want it banned as those patent holders will go broke if they approve a drug used in India to slow the pandemic . Or heaven forbid a drug that is available over the counter in half the world for decades might work ?

I see that the link comes from “FLCCC Alliance” (Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance) a 1’ minutes Google search shows that it was founded by Pierre Kory, critical care physician and big promoter of fringe ideas about COVID-19.

So yes, sure….. (I’m being sarcastic there)

Right. Fringe ideas as on not accepted by the mainstream big pharma, big government, big media...

When did those 3 institutions earn everyone's blind trust without question?

In fact they have shown to be completely untrustworthy as their goals do not truly align with that of the broader society.

Questioning and challenging "authority" is healthy and what has advanced our society through the modern age.

[photofly]

You believe only a selected class of technocrats can determine the best direction for you. To weigh the costs and benefits for you.

That's your right, and you fit right in...

In fields like medicine, law, aviation, engineering, I believe relevant experience and qualifications are required to recommend medical therapy, pilot airplanes, advise on the law for money, build bridges that people are allowed to drive over and buildings that people are allowed to live in, wire my house, drill my teeth, yes. I can then take their advice, or reject it. I can't substitute my advice for theirs, and I absolutely refuse to allow you to substitute your advice for theirs.

It absolutely is my right, and allowing an element of discretion as to the meaning of the words, I do fit in, yes.

The pitiful part of this conversation is that you only think you don’t fit in.

[goldeneagle]

You ignore that it's safe and established for human use in many ailments, parasites, viral infections, bacterial infections for 35 years.
...
So are you misled on this? Or are you willfully ignorant?

Ivermectin is used to to treat Onchocerciasis, Strongyloidiasis, Ascariasis, Cutaneous Larva Migrans, Filariasis, Scabies, and Filariasis.

Spend a couple minutes on google and you will realize, all of these are parasitic, most brought on by some form of worm parasite. None are viral or bacterial.

For those that keep quoting studies, here is an interesting read

https://www.theguardian.com/science/202 ... l-concerns

Apparently the single largest study on the subject had the paper withdrawn because the data was essentially fabricated, yet it is continually referenced by those pushing the drug.

If you read farther, studies done in a petri dish show the virus has a low rate of survival exposed to Ivermectin in a petri dish, ie, when there is nothing else in the surroundings. Further studies done in people have had inconclusive results, ie, there was no statistically significant difference between the study groups given Ivermectin and those given a non active placebo after you remove the data from the fabricated study.

In some of the less developed tropical countries, small doses of Ivermectin are perscribed annually as a matter of course to deal with parasites present in the water supply and insect population. The key word there is 'small', for that application dose is on the order of 0.4 mg. The dose typically found in the vet supply stores is on the order of 10x that amount.

Widely used as a worm solution in the vet industry, a vet has to be conscious of the potential side effects. In horses they are expected to be minimal. With dogs as another example, there is potential for serious neurological side effects in dogs. To understand doseage, it's based on the weight of the animal. With horses and cattle, the danger of overdose is minimal, but that doesn't hold true when dealing with cats and dogs.

Have a good friend in the vet business, asked him about it. His response made me chuckle. 'The most serious side effect is neurological, so it doesn't really matter. Those wanting to take Ivermectin for covid are already brain damaged, a little more wont hurt.'

[photofly]

None of what you say will make any impression as side effects are only relevant when they're vaccine side effects, and fabricated evidence is only relevant when it's evidence about vaccines that's being fabricated by big pharma.

[Eric Janson]

I'm not sure why anyone would trust anything the Mainstream Media tells you. They've been caught multiple times and have zero credibility imho.




https://journals.lww.com/americantherap ... _of.7.aspx

[2R]

“ The Truth is so powerful it can be whispered “ John Knox

[montado]

As for the vaccine.

Looks very effective.

I see zero reason for any lockdown going forward. Might have to riot if we lockdown this fall. Basically I keep declaring the pandemic over but for some reason this is not acceptable yet. Your chance of hospitalization if you are vaccinated is drastically reduced.

I am sure people with vaccines are still testing positive for covid. Cases don't really matter, this thing will spread. But if we can stay out of hospitals, mission accomplished.

Screenshot_20210906-211850.png (612.61 KiB) Viewed 2798 times

[2R]

The path that leads to truth is littered with the bodies of the ignorant. Miyamoto Musashi

[geodoc]

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Nothing Is True and Everything Is Possible

Peter Pomerantsev

[photofly]

Your chance of hospitalization if you are vaccinated is drastically reduced.

I am sure people with vaccines are still testing positive for covid. Cases don't really matter, this thing will spread. But if we can stay out of hospitals, mission accomplished.

Apparently we can’t stay out of hospitals, though. They’re filling up again, we hear. We have a duty to protect the unvaccinated even though they refuse to protect themselves.

[2R]

https://www.thedesertreview.com/opinion ... 19364.html

The use of off label cheap drugs in India may have worked for a week or two , their rates are rising again .
Global rates in the global pandemic are still over 600,000 per day and rates rising in 55 countries .

We have miles to go before we sleep .

[montado]

Your chance of hospitalization if you are vaccinated is drastically reduced.

I am sure people with vaccines are still testing positive for covid. Cases don't really matter, this thing will spread. But if we can stay out of hospitals, mission accomplished.

Apparently we can’t stay out of hospitals, though. They’re filling up again, we hear. We have a duty to protect the unvaccinated even though they refuse to protect themselves.

Forsure. I think we are closer to the end than the beginning. Let this virus burn out as more are vaccinated and more natural immunity happens. Cases and deaths will never be zero but neither are other diseases.

This should be a good flu season. Lots of Rona to go around and build up immunity or die.