Take the vaccine, or lose your job - WTF?

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sstaurus
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Re: Take the vaccine, or lose your job - WTF?

Post by sstaurus »

a220hereicome wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 9:15 am So if you're choosing to not get vaccinated because you have a "different risk tolerance", then you're basically putting the burden on everybody else to keep the ICU and hospitalization numbers manageable.
That's the gist of it. Keeping hospitals free for the normal stuff the rest of the population need. If covid wasn't contagious, no one would give a rats ass who chose to not get shots. If you waive the shots (for anything other than medical reasons), you should also have to waive the right to any hospital care for covid-related illness.
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FL320
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Re: Take the vaccine, or lose your job - WTF?

Post by FL320 »

sstaurus wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 11:53 am
a220hereicome wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 9:15 am So if you're choosing to not get vaccinated because you have a "different risk tolerance", then you're basically putting the burden on everybody else to keep the ICU and hospitalization numbers manageable.
That's the gist of it. Keeping hospitals free for the normal stuff the rest of the population need. If covid wasn't contagious, no one would give a rats ass who chose to not get shots. If you waive the shots (for anything other than medical reasons), you should also have to waive the right to any hospital care for covid-related illness.
I agree and the same should be applied for people who smoke, drink and eat sugar: because of a selfish attitude hospitals are busy and it’s expensive to the society.
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Inverted2
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Re: Take the vaccine, or lose your job - WTF?

Post by Inverted2 »

FL320 wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 4:53 am
sstaurus wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 11:53 am
a220hereicome wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 9:15 am So if you're choosing to not get vaccinated because you have a "different risk tolerance", then you're basically putting the burden on everybody else to keep the ICU and hospitalization numbers manageable.
That's the gist of it. Keeping hospitals free for the normal stuff the rest of the population need. If covid wasn't contagious, no one would give a rats ass who chose to not get shots. If you waive the shots (for anything other than medical reasons), you should also have to waive the right to any hospital care for covid-related illness.
I agree and the same should be applied for people who smoke, drink and eat sugar: because of a selfish attitude hospitals are busy and it’s expensive to the society.
I agree. I think a fat passport should be introduced as well. People over a certain weight or BMI should be limited to certain healthier kinds of food and be barred from fast food restaurants because a selfish attitude hospitals are busy and it’s expensive to the society. :lol:
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montado
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Re: Take the vaccine, or lose your job - WTF?

Post by montado »

Inverted2 wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:05 am
FL320 wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 4:53 am
sstaurus wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 11:53 am

That's the gist of it. Keeping hospitals free for the normal stuff the rest of the population need. If covid wasn't contagious, no one would give a rats ass who chose to not get shots. If you waive the shots (for anything other than medical reasons), you should also have to waive the right to any hospital care for covid-related illness.
I agree and the same should be applied for people who smoke, drink and eat sugar: because of a selfish attitude hospitals are busy and it’s expensive to the society.
Why stop there,
I agree. I think a fat passport should be introduced as well. People over a certain weight or BMI should be limited to certain healthier kinds of food and be barred from fast food restaurants because a selfish attitude hospitals are busy and it’s expensive to the society. :lol:
https://www.cdc.gov/traumaticbraininjur ... gress.html
Each year 1.5 million Americans have a brain injury. Hundreds of thousands fill hospitals to manage this. Yet these morons here ride their bike with no helmet.
19E6E974-7448-4F02-A18A-12BEF0895FF1.jpeg
19E6E974-7448-4F02-A18A-12BEF0895FF1.jpeg (651.57 KiB) Viewed 1967 times
Why should this vaccinated mask wearing bike rider with no helmet get priority healthcare. Clearly he is making an idiotic choice that takes up hospital beds.

It’s time to name and shame everyone. If you see someone eating lucky charms… name and shame!
If you see someone jay walk… name and shame!
See someone on a ladder with only 2 points of contact, you guessed it! Name and shame… this way we can have a list of everyone who doesn’t deserve healthcare!
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FatPilot
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Re: Take the vaccine, or lose your job - WTF?

Post by FatPilot »

Because this bike rider will only be taking himself to the hospital.. you antivaxers will be taking many more unwilling people to the hospital with you.
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montado
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Re: Take the vaccine, or lose your job - WTF?

Post by montado »

FatPilot wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 6:04 am Because this bike rider will only be taking himself to the hospital.. you antivaxers will be taking many more unwilling people to the hospital with you.
Do vaccines work? I found the person here who is anti science! I still cant figure out what the vaccinated fear. I thought the fear was full hospitals (so lets entertain this idea, because maybe they are right!)... in that case, the idiot on the bike should be barred from the hospital when he falls off. A hospital bed for any preventable reason should never be provided. If you drive with no seatbelt, no hospital bed for you! You eat sleep and breath KFC, No bed for you! Just picture the "Soup Nazi" standing out front emerg questioning your near death ass how you ended up at his door and he decides if you took a preventable risk. No soup for you!

I like this... this is exactly how life should work. I sit here and tell all the Unvax, non helmet wearing anti seatbelt folks to stay the hell out of the hospitals because they are all to risky.
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Counterpoint
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Re: Take the vaccine, or lose your job - WTF?

Post by Counterpoint »

It’s quite a stretch to equate bicycle accidents to the pandemic, but we can try.

If all of a sudden, bicycle accident brain injuries caused a huge burden to our health care system, I’m pretty sure Public Health leadership would mandate helmets, bicycle safety classes and possibly bicycle riding permits. In other words, the burden of protecting the Health Care system would fall on the riders following Public Health guidance.

But that is not what drives this vaccination initiative, because the Health Care system is overburdened with Covid patients, stretching the system yet again. Totally preventable.

The vaccine works at preventing Covid symptoms from taking a large majority of the population to hospital.

The time for “pretty please” has finished.
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the-minister31
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Re: Take the vaccine, or lose your job - WTF?

Post by the-minister31 »

At what point do the mods move this thread to the "Covid" subforum?
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montado
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Re: Take the vaccine, or lose your job - WTF?

Post by montado »

Counterpoint wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:32 am But that is not what drives this vaccination initiative, because the Health Care system is overburdened with Covid patients, stretching the system yet again. Totally preventable.
Really? How many people are in a hospital in canada for COVID?
How many people are in the hospital for something other than covid?

I need to see the numbers to see how covid is the burden.

Ontario has over 30k hospital beds. If we are full, we can assume they are occupied. Today 264 unvaccinated people are in hospital with covid.

How is it that unvaccinated people are occupying less than 1 percent of Ontario hospital beds, yet they are the burden on the system, and the other 99 percent you dismiss without asking questions as to why they are there?

To be clear i think its completely stupid to deny care based on helmet or seatbelt use, just as I think its also ridiculous to refuse the unvaccinated healthcare. I don't know where people come up with these idiotic arguments. I think the data above shows there are plenty of hospital beds being taken for non covid reasons.

Imagine thinking 300 hospital beds in a population of 14 million is stretching capacity. What world do people live in? Is our healthcare system that shit?
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TrilliumFlt
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Re: Take the vaccine, or lose your job - WTF?

Post by TrilliumFlt »

montado wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:13 am
Counterpoint wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:32 am But that is not what drives this vaccination initiative, because the Health Care system is overburdened with Covid patients, stretching the system yet again. Totally preventable.
Really? How many people are in a hospital in canada for COVID?
How many people are in the hospital for something other than covid?

I need to see the numbers to see how covid is the burden.

Ontario has over 30k hospital beds. If we are full, we can assume they are occupied. Today 264 unvaccinated people are in hospital with covid.

How is it that unvaccinated people are occupying less than 1 percent of Ontario hospital beds, yet they are the burden on the system, and the other 99 percent you dismiss without asking questions as to why they are there?

To be clear i think its completely stupid to deny care based on helmet or seatbelt use, just as I think its also ridiculous to refuse the unvaccinated healthcare. I don't know where people come up with these idiotic arguments. I think the data above shows there are plenty of hospital beds being taken for non covid reasons.

Imagine thinking 300 hospital beds in a population of 14 million is stretching capacity. What world do people live in? Is our healthcare system that shit?
All of those 30K hospital beds are not "critical care/ICU beds, even all of those don't necessarily have the required items to manage ever possible ailment that arrives (i.e. ventilator) for every ICU bed.
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ikarus
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Re: Take the vaccine, or lose your job - WTF?

Post by ikarus »

I like to believe the doctor saying it infront of live tv broadcast, then some media propaganda that you are all falling for.

So what do you say now when you hear this guy speak how it really is? Is it conspiracy theory?

https://twitter.com/bryanvilleneuve/sta ... 2%3EAugust

Please take a look, its two 2min of your time.
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dialdriver
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Re: Take the vaccine, or lose your job - WTF?

Post by dialdriver »

montado wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:13 am
Counterpoint wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:32 am But that is not what drives this vaccination initiative, because the Health Care system is overburdened with Covid patients, stretching the system yet again. Totally preventable.
Really? How many people are in a hospital in canada for COVID?
How many people are in the hospital for something other than covid?

I need to see the numbers to see how covid is the burden.

Ontario has over 30k hospital beds. If we are full, we can assume they are occupied. Today 264 unvaccinated people are in hospital with covid.

How is it that unvaccinated people are occupying less than 1 percent of Ontario hospital beds, yet they are the burden on the system, and the other 99 percent you dismiss without asking questions as to why they are there?

To be clear i think its completely stupid to deny care based on helmet or seatbelt use, just as I think its also ridiculous to refuse the unvaccinated healthcare. I don't know where people come up with these idiotic arguments. I think the data above shows there are plenty of hospital beds being taken for non covid reasons.

Imagine thinking 300 hospital beds in a population of 14 million is stretching capacity. What world do people live in? Is our healthcare system that shit?
It's ICU beds, not hospital beds. They are stuffed with unvaccinated covid patients. Not likely many bicycle riders....
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ikarus
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Re: Take the vaccine, or lose your job - WTF?

Post by ikarus »

dialdriver wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:24 am
montado wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:13 am
Counterpoint wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:32 am But that is not what drives this vaccination initiative, because the Health Care system is overburdened with Covid patients, stretching the system yet again. Totally preventable.
Really? How many people are in a hospital in canada for COVID?
How many people are in the hospital for something other than covid?

I need to see the numbers to see how covid is the burden.

Ontario has over 30k hospital beds. If we are full, we can assume they are occupied. Today 264 unvaccinated people are in hospital with covid.

How is it that unvaccinated people are occupying less than 1 percent of Ontario hospital beds, yet they are the burden on the system, and the other 99 percent you dismiss without asking questions as to why they are there?

To be clear i think its completely stupid to deny care based on helmet or seatbelt use, just as I think its also ridiculous to refuse the unvaccinated healthcare. I don't know where people come up with these idiotic arguments. I think the data above shows there are plenty of hospital beds being taken for non covid reasons.

Imagine thinking 300 hospital beds in a population of 14 million is stretching capacity. What world do people live in? Is our healthcare system that shit?
It's ICU beds, not hospital beds. They are stuffed with unvaccinated covid patients. Not likely many bicycle riders....
Are you blind... Watch the video I posted above! Its tbe vaxxed the are in ICU... Its all lies. Get of the cable and ask around.
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photofly
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Re: Take the vaccine, or lose your job - WTF?

Post by photofly »

And here’s something for you to read:

https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/ ... vaccinated
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DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
Posthumane
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Re: Take the vaccine, or lose your job - WTF?

Post by Posthumane »

The medical system does not triage patients based on what choices they made that led to them being there. Full Stop.

Triage is done based on the urgency of required care and the chances of recovery. So if a cancer patient needs surgery sometime in the next couple of months and another person is having trouble breathing and needs to be put on oxygen or a ventilator, the priority will go to the person who needs help right now and the less urgent case will be postponed. Unfortunately if you get people arriving in an urgent state continuously the lower priority cancer patient will be continuously delayed until suddenly they are a priority case because they are now dying, at which point it may be too late for them. This is obviously not a good outcome.

Anyone talking about denying medical care to someone based on "bad choices" is not appreciating how many bad choices they themselves make on a daily basis which could eventually land them in the hospital. However, denying people the opportunity for doing things which may lead to injury is done fairly often in our modern society. Not allowing people the freedom to gather in groups when they are not vaccinated is not much different than not allowing people the freedom to ride around with the wind blowing in their hair, which many places have done. Personally I think people should be free to do stupid things that may injure them when the only real risk is to themselves; when the number of injuries from helmetless riding or not wearing seatbelts or not getting medical treatments is small then it doesn't really affect anyone else (apart from the socialized cost of the treatments). When the numbers grow large enough that people can't get treatments for other things, it's no longer affecting just the person making the decision. In other words, a person's rights and freedoms stop at the point where they start infringing on another person's rights/freedoms.
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ikarus
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Re: Take the vaccine, or lose your job - WTF?

Post by ikarus »

[quote=Posthumane
In other words, a person's rights and freedoms stop at the point where they start infringing on another person's rights/freedoms.
[/quote]

And how is a healthy unvaccinated person infringing on your rights and freedoms when in fact its the vaccinated that are spreading the virus and filling up the hospitals? Did you not watch the video posted on twitter above? Not saying unvaccinated are not getting sick as well, but according to (again) Isrealie study, those who recover from covid have 13x better immunity then those who are vaxxed. Period.
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propfeather
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Re: Take the vaccine, or lose your job - WTF?

Post by propfeather »

ikarus wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:26 am And how is a healthy unvaccinated person infringing on your rights and freedoms when in fact its the vaccinated that are spreading the virus and filling up the hospitals? Did you not watch the video posted on twitter above?
This isn't the case in Canada or the US. Unvaccinated are overwhelmingly taking up the hospital beds.
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ikarus
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Re: Take the vaccine, or lose your job - WTF?

Post by ikarus »

Hahahahah yeah I guess Isrealies bought a cheap off the market version of Pfizer then Canadians did?? Are you hearing yourself?

Why is it hard for you to understand that the media is lying to you? I'm talking to friends in Europe who are doctors and are afraid of speaking out because they will lose their jobs, because they are saying that situation in hospitals is exactly opposite of what the media is saying.
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montado
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Re: Take the vaccine, or lose your job - WTF?

Post by montado »

propfeather wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:31 am
ikarus wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:26 am And how is a healthy unvaccinated person infringing on your rights and freedoms when in fact its the vaccinated that are spreading the virus and filling up the hospitals? Did you not watch the video posted on twitter above?
This isn't the case in Canada or the US. Unvaccinated are overwhelmingly taking up the hospital beds.
I really cant understand the logic of "your freedoms end where mine begin" when comparing this to mandatory vaccines.

This seems equivalent to me saying, "you cant drive your car because it causes global warming and will impact my health"

This is a "global pandemic", even if we vaccinated all the un-vaccinated Canadians it would not even be a recognizable difference. People are throwing their fists over a couple hundred ICU cases. The stats show even with vaccines covid will still spread and vaccinated will still end up in ICU. The numbers and risk are so small the average person would have no idea the difference. You also can't force mandatory vaccines on the other 7 billion people on the planet who sure enough will be part of the continued spread of covid for the rest of our lives. So remind me again where your freedoms begin? Is it where they other 7 billions freedoms end? :lol:

All I see is Fear. When people experience fear they look for someone to blame. Willing to bet these people are fine with bending the rules for themselves, but like to project rules on others.

I know someone who was bragging about tax evasion on a side biz. This person also thought vaccines should be mandatory. How is that for consistency? You don't want to pay for the hospitals and pay your share of tax, but you also think we should force vaccines on people. :lol: You believe in the greater good except when its your turn to pay... Yeah! that makes sense. Rules for thee but not for me... seems to be how lots of people function rather than just worry about themselves.

If you want rules, at least show you follow rules yourself. I don't understand how you can brag about evading taxes and then feel your mandatory vaccine opinion should be taken seriously.
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photofly
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Re: Take the vaccine, or lose your job - WTF?

Post by photofly »

montado wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:41 am I really cant understand the logic of "your freedoms end where mine begin" when comparing this to mandatory vaccines.
To be honest, most people can't understand the logic of not getting vaccinated.
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DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
propfeather
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Re: Take the vaccine, or lose your job - WTF?

Post by propfeather »

ikarus wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:39 am Hahahahah yeah I guess Isrealies bought a cheap off the market version of Pfizer then Canadians did?? Are you hearing yourself?

Why is it hard for you to understand that the media is lying to you? I'm talking to friends in Europe who are doctors and are afraid of speaking out because they will lose their jobs, because they are saying that situation in hospitals is exactly opposite of what the media is saying.
Just going off what my ICU nurse friends in BC are saying. I don't do the media. Seems like so far the vaccines are keeping people out of the hospital and ICU so far. Sounds like there's a possibility of that changing if vaccine effectiveness reduces with time.
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Posthumane
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Re: Take the vaccine, or lose your job - WTF?

Post by Posthumane »

Montando, are you saying nobody would notice the difference if Calgary hospitals cancel all non-immediate surgeries or not? That is the difference between a couple hundred ICU beds. Alberta has less than 500 ICU beds in total, and they are not evenly distributed. Currently more than 25% of those are occupied by covid cases, which tend to stay in ICU much longer than other common patients such as heart attack and car accident victims. The system is designed to generally run around 80% capacity; with more than that you start to lose surge room. Unfortunately when it runs at a lower capacity people moan about government inefficiency and try to make cuts because unused capacity is seen by many as a waste of money. Right now Medicine Hat is transferring patients to lethbridge (which has a little capacity remaining) because don't have the bed space available and are not able to send people to Calgary for the same reason. While this might not have a major global effect, it is certainly having a pronounced local effect.


Btw, your comment about tax evasion is a total red herring. "One person I know is an inconsistent asshole who believes in mandating vaccination, therefore everyone who thinks people should be vaccinated is an inconsistent tax evading asshole."
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montado
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Re: Take the vaccine, or lose your job - WTF?

Post by montado »

Looking forward to when Trudeau says "mandatory flight cuts" for the health of all people. Do you believe in science? Are you a climate change denier? Global Warming will have an impact exponentially more damaging than covid. I think all flights should be banned.

All you rational mandatory vaccine type thinkers must agree, no? Climate change is more dangerous to people than covid ever will be.
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Aviatard
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Re: Take the vaccine, or lose your job - WTF?

Post by Aviatard »

ikarus wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:39 am Hahahahah yeah I guess Isrealies bought a cheap off the market version of Pfizer then Canadians did?? Are you hearing yourself?

Why is it hard for you to understand that the media is lying to you? I'm talking to friends in Europe who are doctors and are afraid of speaking out because they will lose their jobs, because they are saying that situation in hospitals is exactly opposite of what the media is saying.
You’re such a proven trustworthy source that everyone should believe you.
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ikarus
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Re: Take the vaccine, or lose your job - WTF?

Post by ikarus »

I just posted two links... That back up what I've heard from doctors directly.

Here's another conspiracy theory coming straight from Pfizer!

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/pfiz ... id-mandate
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