Take the vaccine, or lose your job - WTF?

[pilotbzh]

241360800_982699032580805_1817276961923584120_n.jpg (52.08 KiB) Viewed 2434 times

[Posthumane]

I just posted two links... That back up what I've heard from doctors directly.

Here's another conspiracy theory coming straight from Pfizer!

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/pfiz ... id-mandate

I agree with Gottlieb, immunity from natural infection should be taken into account when drafting policy. I think having a serologic test that shows you have antibodies from prior infection should be as good as vaccination (or at least one dose) for the stated purposes.
This has nothing to do with anything you were arguing before though. Your argument about the number of vaccinated people in hospital was addressed by photofly earlier. You just chose to ignore it.

[montado]

[tbaylx]

Looking forward to when Trudeau says "mandatory flight cuts" for the health of all people. Do you believe in science? Are you a climate change denier? Global Warming will have an impact exponentially more damaging than covid. I think all flights should be banned.

All you rational mandatory vaccine type thinkers must agree, no? Climate change is more dangerous to people than covid ever will be.

Children who attend primary or secondary school must already be immunized against:

diphtheria
tetanus
polio
measles
mumps
rubella
meningitis (meningococcal disease)
whooping cough (pertussis)
chickenpox (varicella) – required for children born in 2010 or later

So most people already have a laundry list of vaccines they have to have. I don't recall pilots posting about these, so what difference is one more? or is this one somehow different because it's been politicized...

[Posthumane]

I find it ironic that you post this. Zdogg is moderate and very rational, and his main messaging has been against the misinformation surrounding the vaccines. Meanwhile you are one of the more prolific spreaders of misinformation on this forum (this whole thing was just made up to line the pockets of vaccine manufacturers, they're suppressing real treatments that work better, etc). It's pretty hard to spread a logical message based on the best evidence available when people are fighting that message every step of the way and start frothing at the mouth about politics every time it's brought up (and even when it's not brought up). What was the solution proposed in that video? Immunity passports? I thought you were against that, but correct me if I'm wrong an I'm getting you mixed up with someone else.

As I've said in other threads, I'm generally against mandates and would prefer that proper honest messaging would get people to do what is needed. It is in fact this forum that is making me doubt that is possible - some people are so dead set against their hated political leaders that they are quite willing to abandon reason that they otherwise had in order to stay in the opposite corner from them.

[montado]

I find it ironic that you post this. Zdogg is moderate and very rational, and his main messaging has been against the misinformation surrounding the vaccines. Meanwhile you are one of the more prolific spreaders of misinformation on this forum (this whole thing was just made up to line the pockets of vaccine manufacturers, they're suppressing real treatments that work better, etc). It's pretty hard to spread a logical message based on the best evidence available when people are fighting that message every step of the way and start frothing at the mouth about politics every time it's brought up (and even when it's not brought up). What was the solution proposed in that video? Immunity passports? I thought you were against that, but correct me if I'm wrong an I'm getting you mixed up with someone else.

As I've said in other threads, I'm generally against mandates and would prefer that proper honest messaging would get people to do what is needed. It is in fact this forum that is making me doubt that is possible - some people are so dead set against their hated political leaders that they are quite willing to abandon reason that they otherwise had in order to stay in the opposite corner from them.

Are you kidding? I have always said I'm for the vaccine. There have been moments I have question things and that was always because the government message. Such as when fauci said we need vaccinated people to wear masks etc. When I hear this guy talk I feel like he is saying exactly how I feel.

I have said the vaccine will end the plandemic. I said masks are idiotic and I said government policy had been idiotic. I think I have basically made many of the same points he has. I have said when a worse pandemic hits people won't even trust our government because of how they have handled this. I have said I think older people should get vaccinated, and kids should not.

People are just complete idiots today running around with masks on. Sure I'm not as eloquent as this Doc but I have basically been saying the same things the whole pandemic. Yeah sometimes I make sarcastic remarks because I think some other people have radical opinions. Yeah sometimes I question the relationship between big pharam and the government and what is the financial gain doing things a certain way. But you seriously think it's ironic that I posted this? This guy is saying exactly what I have been saying.

[Lol_xD]

Children who attend primary or secondary school must already be immunized against:

diphtheria
tetanus
polio
measles
mumps
rubella
meningitis (meningococcal disease)
whooping cough (pertussis)
chickenpox (varicella) – required for children born in 2010 or later

So most people already have a laundry list of vaccines they have to have. I don't recall pilots posting about these, so what difference is one more? or is this one somehow different because it's been politicized...

This Is Actually False as children do not have to be vaccinated at all. Schools do have vaccine mandates BUT any child can be exempt from any/all vaccines for medical, religious OR conscious belief. Specifically for conscious or religious belief -> As a parent you must attend a vaccine education seminar, and Complete a Statement of Conscience or Religious Belief form which must get signed by a commissioner for taking affidavits in Ontario. Not an overly complicated process which respects religious or personal beliefs. The Unvaccinated kids then go to school as all the other kids… no special procedures.

Source: https://www.ontario.ca/page/vaccines-ch ... #section-4

So to everyone saying “vaccines are mandatory for kids” , unfortunately you’re misinformed. Getting an exemption for a child is a very simple process that maybe takes a few hours out of your week. There is no extravagant hoops to jump through.

** this is specifically for Ontario students, but likely applies to each province in some shape or form.

[dialdriver]

I like to believe the doctor saying it infront of live tv broadcast, then some media propaganda that you are all falling for.

So what do you say now when you hear this guy speak how it really is? Is it conspiracy theory?

https://twitter.com/bryanvilleneuve/sta ... 2%3EAugust

Please take a look, its two 2min of your time.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/covid-va ... -1.6171958

[furloughedAC]

So I just asked around. Sister in law is at Georgetown hospital in emerg, good friend at St Jos in Hamilton and another at Guelph. All confirmed that they continue to be busy with covid patients. Having just one patient is a major pain in the ass because of the required isolation and extra procedures (on top of the many new procedures across the board in hospitals due to covid). It's primarily unvaxed older patients, just as the data indicates. There is the odd case of some one who is vaxed but they're much quicker to recover and much less likely to have severe symptoms (again right par with what the data shows). All three hospitals are constantly looking for nurses to work OT, to the point where managers have called up and begged them to come in or their colleagues are going to have a horrible shift. They've all worked numerous horrible short staffed shifts. When you're one person down in your unit, the level of care goes way down and it becomes incredibly stressful, much more likely to make a mistake. They don't have protection like we do as pilots as far as duty hours or required rest. They usually work two 12 hour day shifts and then two 12 hour night shifts in a row. They've been asked to stay late, come in early, come in on days off. They feel compelled to do so because if they don't they know how shitty of a day or night it makes for those who are there.

2 of the 3 nurses keep it quite professional and leave it at that. The third nurse has been considering leaving for about a year and has now switched to part time and only picks up the odd shifts when she wants to. She's fed up with all the bullshit. She's had multiple people rant at her about covid being fake while they're near death from it. She asks why they're at the hospital if it's fake. She's gotten to the point where she will tell people once they get off the ventilator to call every one they've been around, starting with their unvaxed friends and family, and tell them to isolate so they don't end up in the bed next to him taking up an ICU bed for the next week or so.

It's sad to see her have to change careers after a uni degree and ten years experience. I'm glad she recognizes that her disdain for for an ignorant/selfish portion of the population has compromised her entire demeanor and level of patience, she is no longer suited for the job. She may go back to it in the future but I'm glad she's getting out.

Are you blind... Watch the video I posted above! Its tbe vaxxed the are in ICU... Its all lies. Get of the cable and ask around.
[/quote]

[furloughedAC]

So I just asked around. Sister in law is at Georgetown hospital in emerg, good friend at St Jos in Hamilton and another at Guelph. All confirmed that they continue to be busy with covid patients. Having just one patient is a major pain in the ass because of the required isolation and extra procedures (on top of the many new procedures across the board in hospitals due to covid). It's primarily unvaxed older patients, just as the data indicates. There is the odd case of some one who is vaxed but they're much quicker to recover and much less likely to have severe symptoms (again right par with what the data shows). All three hospitals are constantly looking for nurses to work OT, to the point where managers have called up and begged them to come in or their colleagues are going to have a horrible shift. They've all worked numerous horrible short staffed shifts. When you're one person down in your unit, the level of care goes way down and it becomes incredibly stressful, much more likely to make a mistake. They don't have protection like we do as pilots as far as duty hours or required rest. They usually work two 12 hour day shifts and then two 12 hour night shifts in a row. They've been asked to stay late, come in early, come in on days off. They feel compelled to do so because if they don't they know how shitty of a day or night it makes for those who are there.

2 of the 3 nurses keep it quite professional and leave it at that. The third nurse has been considering leaving for about a year and has now switched to part time and only picks up the odd shifts when she wants to. She's fed up with all the bullshit. She's had multiple people rant at her about covid being fake while they're near death from it. She asks why they're at the hospital if it's fake. She's gotten to the point where she will tell people once they get off the ventilator to call every one they've been around, starting with their unvaxed friends and family, and tell them to isolate so they don't end up in the bed next to him taking up an ICU bed for the next week or so.

It's sad to see her have to change careers after a uni degree and ten years experience. I'm glad she recognizes that her disdain for for an ignorant/selfish portion of the population has compromised her entire demeanor and level of patience, she is no longer suited for the job. She may go back to it in the future but I'm glad she's getting out.

Are you blind... Watch the video I posted above! Its tbe vaxxed the are in ICU... Its all lies. Get of the cable and ask around.
[/quote]

[Posthumane]

Montano, you may agree with what he has been saying (in which case, good, I generally do as well) but what you have been saying is very clearly not the same message as his. A vast number of your posts are implying that this whole thing is just Pharma companies raking people over the coals and trying to discredit them with statements such as:

.
Israel got first crack at vaccines… looks like the immunity doesn’t last long. Who would have thought big pharma would invent a vaccine you just keep taking because it only lasts 6 months! ChaChing!!! As soon as mandatory vaccines and passports are out we will then get the news to line up for boosters because are 6 month old second doses are no longer effective

With an occasional "vaccines work" thrown in. If your views line up with those of the doc there, then I'm afraid your communication skills need a bit of work, because to a third party it does not appear that what you have been communicating is actually what you mean.

So, if we're in agreement that people should get vaccinated, what do you propose as a way to convince the hesitant to get vaccinated? Lifting mask mandates for vaccinated didn't result in a large influx, and just letting things be is resulting in cancelled hospital procedures. Should everyone just be shrugging their shoulders and saying "tough luck" to those who needed hospital procedures? And do you honestly believe that statements like the one I quoted are helping or hindering that effort?

[montado]

So, if we're in agreement that people should get vaccinated, what do you propose as a way to convince the hesitant to get vaccinated? Lifting mask mandates for vaccinated didn't result in a large influx.

We didn’t eliminate mask mandates. The hesitant may never want a vaccine, who cares! If you believe in science you know this pandemic is over and this is endemic. I thought mask mandates were a little ridiculous in the beginning with no vaccines, but they are now just completely idiotic. I think mask use should have been a more targeted approach. For example kids in school should not be masked. People in hospitals and doctors clinics should be masked. Heck it’s even good policy when not in a pandemic to wear a mask to your doctors office. Problem with policy is it has always been exaggerated. Is it any wonder why people are hesitant? Just get simple and consistent messages out.

The most simple way to put it is I am vaccinated, I also encourage my family and friends to get vaccinated, especially if I think they are high risk. As for the unvaccinated I respect their choice and I don’t feel their personal choice impacts me. They may get covid, and at the end of that they will build up immunity naturally. Let this thing spread and let’s move on.

Now I’m just thinking we should all get baked.

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210 ... cells.aspx

CBD might be useful to treat covid

[dialdriver]

So, if we're in agreement that people should get vaccinated, what do you propose as a way to convince the hesitant to get vaccinated? Lifting mask mandates for vaccinated didn't result in a large influx.

We didn’t eliminate mask mandates. The hesitant may never want a vaccine, who cares! If you believe in science you know this pandemic is over and this is endemic. I thought mask mandates were a little ridiculous in the beginning with no vaccines, but they are now just completely idiotic. I think mask use should have been a more targeted approach. For example kids in school should not be masked. People in hospitals and doctors clinics should be masked. Heck it’s even good policy when not in a pandemic to wear a mask to your doctors office. Problem with policy is it has always been exaggerated. Is it any wonder why people are hesitant? Just get simple and consistent messages out.

The most simple way to put it is I am vaccinated, I also encourage my family and friends to get vaccinated, especially if I think they are high risk. As for the unvaccinated I respect their choice and I don’t feel their personal choice impacts me. They may get covid, and at the end of that they will build up immunity naturally. Let this thing spread and let’s move on.

Now I’m just thinking we should all get baked.

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210 ... cells.aspx

CBD might be useful to treat covid

Apparently, you're already baked.

[Posthumane]

Where I live the mask mandate was eliminated for a while, and when reinstated it exempted young children.
As far as who cares if the hesitant don't get vaccinated, I would say the people who are being denied medical care on account of the resources being occupied. This may not impact you because that is not the case in your province, but it is happening in several places in Canada as well as the US. If that wasn't the case I would agree, let them take whatever risk they choose to take.

Also, the families of the people who decided not to get vaccinated because they believed the plandemic bs (along with all the other half baked accusations) and ended up dying probably care. I think someone who fell victim to misinformation if no different than someone who fell for a scam, and I blame the scammers and misinformants for the negative outcomes.

[co-joe]

OK so where we sit today;
AC, WS, and Jazz have all said you have to be double vaxxed by the end of october or you can't come to work? Is the wording that you have to be fully immunized (ie second dose plus 2 weeks)? And you have to wait 4 weeks after 1st dose to receive the second?

[Canuck1988]

OK so where we sit today;
AC, WS, and Jazz have all said you have to be double vaxxed by the end of october or you can't come to work? Is the wording that you have to be fully immunized (ie second dose plus 2 weeks)? And you have to wait 4 weeks after 1st dose to receive the second?

As far as I'm aware, yes. Fully vaxxed is 2 doses plus 2 weeks, and you can only put those vans' so close together.

[mmmike]

Anti Vax are holding the industry back, no different than needing vaccines to go to school....don't want to do it, you're out....

My thoughts exactly!

[palebird]

If you are so "all in" on the vaccine why are you so worried about people who are not vaccinated? You have been vaccinated so scurry off and do your thing. You are protected and have nothing to worry about right. That is what I thought.This whole exercise has become a schoolyard bs session. Go away with all of your Covid vaccination nonsense. Go tell it on the mountain.

[ALPApolicy]

If you are so "all in" on the vaccine why are you so worried about people who are not vaccinated? You have been vaccinated so scurry off and do your thing. You are protected and have nothing to worry about right. That is what I thought.This whole exercise has become a schoolyard bs session. Go away with all of your Covid vaccination nonsense. Go tell it on the mountain.

He is worried about the people who are not vaccinated because they, the people who are not vaccinated, seem to be where the risk is greatest of this becoming a widespread pandemic again. To some, vaccines offer the best hope for getting past this episode. The more people who remain unvaccinated, the more the disease spreads. At least that is what he (and I), and others believe.

We, the fully vaccinated, believe it our duty to our fellow citizens to do what is necessary. Much like conscription during those periods when it was necessary. If you want to be selfish, as I see it, then I am okay with you suffering restrictions on your mobility in order to restrict the spread of the disease. Until someone offers a better narrative, that is what I believe to be true.

[palebird]

Wowsers. Sounds biblical. Like I said. If you are vaccinated then go away. Don't want to hear it Karen.

[palebird]

Anybody having a hard time with this? I think so. Should take a read of the open letter sent to Hogan, the premier of BC and his health Minister Bonny. Penned by a group of Okanagan region doctors. Based on facts and figures. Go ahead take a look..or not.

[ALPApolicy]

Wowsers. Sounds biblical. Like I said. If you are vaccinated then go away. Don't want to hear it Karen.

Karen? Um, no. In case you haven't noticed, businesses and people's lives have been devastated by the Covid pandemic. We need to get past this. What's your solution, Karen?

[TG]

Wowsers. Sounds biblical. Like I said. If you are vaccinated then go away. Don't want to hear it Karen.

Actually it’s you the Karen on this case.
For not understanding that the less people are vaccinated the more options for mutations to this disease. The more mutations, the more vaccination can become ineffective. If so, it is back to square one or worst.

It doesn’t take a PhD in virology to understand that.

[pecessix]

For not understanding that the less people are vaccinated the more options for mutations to this disease. The more mutations, the more vaccination can become ineffective. If so, it is back to square one or worst.

It doesn’t take a PhD in virology to understand that.

Those vaccines are only reducing the symptoms if you get covid. You will just be less sick and may not have to spend some time in a hospital.
But it does not prevent the transmission on this virus, it doesn't protect you from getting the virus, therefore it does not prevent the mutations, therefore that thing will be here for a while, vaccinated or not.
It doesn't take a PhD to understand that...

[propfeather]

For not understanding that the less people are vaccinated the more options for mutations to this disease. The more mutations, the more vaccination can become ineffective. If so, it is back to square one or worst.

It doesn’t take a PhD in virology to understand that.

Those vaccines are only reducing the symptoms if you get covid. You will just be less sick and may not have to spend some time in a hospital.
But it does not prevent the transmission on this virus, it doesn't protect you from getting the virus, therefore it does not prevent the mutations, therefore that thing will be here for a while, vaccinated or not.
It doesn't take a PhD to understand that...

It won't guarantee you not getting covid but it sure reduces the chances. On top of that, a less severe infection, and you're infectious for a shorter period of time. Less people taking up hospital capacity is definitely not a bad thing.