Take the vaccine, or lose your job - WTF?

[imjustlurking]

Given that our employers have been telling us, and the public, and government for over a year and half that flying is safe, that our workplace is safe, that we are safe, is that no longer the case? Was that a lie? RESPONSE: The government will be mandating the vaccination requirement shortly (assuming a Liberal party win) so companies have no choice. Additionally, the word "safe" isn't absolute. Also, a fully vaccinated workforce is a good thing for society, in my opinion. You may have a different one.

The mandate will continue whether the Liberals win a minority or the Conservatives win a minority.

There's enough support left of the Liberals to pass the bill in some form.

Either way, your responses will be blown off by Altiplano because he's right and you're wrong.

[goldeneagle]

The mandate will continue whether the Liberals win a minority or the Conservatives win a minority.

The results of today's election will be irrelavent. Today the USA announced sweeping changes to entry requirements coming. A little birdie was whispering in my ear an hour ago, said when final draft is released the sections about special allowances for flight crews will be conspicuously missing. It wont matter if you are sitting in the front or the back of the airplane, entry requirements will be the same.

[goldeneagle]

Which hospitals had rocks thrown at them...

The ones with protests out front from that I know of definitively because I know folks that work in them.

Campbell River
Courtenay
Nanaimo
Victoria
St Pauls.

All of them experienced verbal abuse along with some pushing and shoving. At least two that I know of where folks were throwing things.

I'll say it again, you treat unvaccinated people as a monolith. It's wrong to discriminate against the many because what you heard about a few.

One needs only look at the hospital admission numbers to understand what's happening. 70% of the population has stepped up to the vaccination table, 30% have not. 85% of hospital admissions for covid are from that 30% of the population. Of those in the vaccinated population who are in hospital with covid symptoms and diagnosis, the majority have other health issues as well. Of the unvaxxed population, only a minority in hospital have other health issues.

There is some very simple to understand math one can do to grok this.

70 * x = 0.15
30 * y = 0.85

x = 0.002
y = 0.020

Note the clear factor of 10 difference. That is not a small anomaly, that is a very clear and distinct 'signal' from the data. The unvaxxed are 10 times as likely to end up in the hospital with severe covid issues. And contrary to the mantra you seem to be pushing, the vax program is NOT about preventing folks from getting covid at all. The program is about reducing hospital admissions to the point those facilities can handle the influx of patients, a detail you obviously refuse to acknowledge. A factor of 10 reductions in admissions from that 30% would accomplish this goal, and once again free up space in the system for granny to have her hip replaced, or maybe have a spot available for you in the ICU if you end up in a bad car accident.

So yes, we do consider unvaccinated folks as a monolith, and the statistics bear out why. I really dont care if your reasons for not getting a jab are because you are scared of needles, or you worry about a microchip, or what other fanciful excuse you want to make for it. The bottom line is this, as a group the unvaccinated are responsible for more hospital admissions by a factor of 10, and it's impacting the ability of the rest of the population to access what used to be considered normal everyday and routine health care procedures.

This country has a problem right now, and hundreds of your compatriots are unemployed because of it. You can choose to be part of the solution, or be part of the problem, thats your choice.

[altiplano]

Wow, you are really whipped up into your tribalism, and I don't have much faith in the extent of all you purport to have taken place.

Closed minded and intolerant of different perspectives.

[dialdriver]

Wow, you are really whipped up into your tribalism, and I don't have much faith in the extent of all you purport to have taken place.

Closed minded and intolerant of different perspectives.

Any effort to present facts to you is persistently met with belligerence and personal attacks.

[imjustlurking]

Wow, you are really whipped up into your tribalism, and I don't have much faith in the extent of all you purport to have taken place.

Closed minded and intolerant of different perspectives.

Are you vaccinated? Do you plan on getting the jab?

[Hangry]

I know it’s increasingly easy to “own” the idiots at this point but why even engage. At this point it’s an incredible self-own. Just let it happen and let his posts age. Be done with it. Time will sort everything.

[ikarus]

Make no mistake there is a lot of pressure placed unjustly on a lot of good people who haven't done anything wrong.

Last week we had ignorant protesters standing in front of the hospital throwing rocks at folks coming off shift, hollering about how they want 'medical freedom'. We've had a car keyed in the hospital parking lot and know some of the health care workers that have had death threats over the last year.

I'm really not surprised you consider that kind of behavior as 'have done nothing wrong' and those are 'good people'.

But you didn't answer the question. Do you stand by the drivel you are posting non stop ? Or will you still be flying for AC after Nov 1 ? It's really easy to 'talk the talk', but we want to know if you have what it takes to 'walk the walk'.

Too bad your media doesn't let you see all those police officers, firefighters and medical staff protesting against the mandate downtown YYZ and YYC. They must be all FOX subscribers and useless critters to our society since they dare voice their own opinion publicly.

[ikarus]

Altiplano, you must understand the frustration here. Our country is now entering into the depths of the fourth wave. Alberta is going into a state of emergency. Their nursing union is requesting military assistance.

The most disheartening part of all this is that it could've been avoided if we had higher vaccination rates. Vaccines have been proven to be safe, effective, and beneficial in in reducing both the transmissibility and the severity of the disease. These two functions are linked. We need to reduce the severity to keep hospitals from being overwhelmed, and we need to reduce the transmissibility to get the reproductive rate below 1 (closer to 0.5 would be ideal). If the disease continues to reproduce at higher levels, it introduces the chance of mutations, which might set us back months or even years.

You may feel yourself safe by following your own personal health measures, but the reality is this is a highly infectious disease, and you only need to get unlucky once. There have been an untold number of cases of young and healthy individuals being hospitalized due to COVID, especially with the delta variant. Don't think that you can't be one of them - get vaccinated.

As a result of the emergency, Alberta is now having to delay cancer treatments for children there. What this means is that the unvaccinated are almost entirely to blame for the prolonged suffering of deeply ill children. If you can't understand the anger, then I'm not sure what to say.

I am currently with family and many relatives and friends who are living in a European country. They ARE going through a 4th wave at the moment...7,000 + cases per day. One fifth of total population of Canada...and you know what, life goes on. People go to concerts, weddings, funerals, kids are back to school. Vaccinated barely 50% of their population.

[Counterpoint]

Wow, you are really whipped up into your tribalism, and I don't have much faith in the extent of all you purport to have taken place.

Closed minded and intolerant of different perspectives.

Are you sure you’re following your own mantra ? What do you mean by not having much faith of all of what goldeneagle purports ? Can you be more specific ?

You also seem to be questioning Public Health officials as they navigate the moving target as some form of Freedom experiment. What exactly is your counterpoint to all the full and wide ranging evidence that this 4th wave isn’t a pandemic of the unvaxed ?

You’ve already admitted to being a “disagreeable non-conformist” - is that playing to a superficial opinion that may be masking a real fear of the vaccination or immunization ?

This isn’t an attack on you or the unvaxed, but it is a genuine concern that you are ignoring Public Heath recommendations.

[737Maximilian]

I am currently with family and many relatives and friends who are living in a European country. They ARE going through a 4th wave at the moment...7,000 + cases per day. One fifth of total population of Canada...and you know what, life goes on. People go to concerts, weddings, funerals, kids are back to school. Vaccinated barely 50% of their population.

How is their hospitals handling it though? If they have the reserve capacity to handle the uptick, that's one thing. Otherwise, people will have a lot more funerals to go to.

[Brize]

Trudeau is not coming back.
As far as all the whining and moral posturing on Covid and vaccines it is pretty pathetic. If you can't see through the smoke screen then you will get whatever it is that is coming down. And yes I have had close family members pass away throughout this crisis and had to deal with all of the ridiculous restrictions which make these stressful situations much worse. Three people so far. Life goes on. The population has made their own crisis and cannot see it. Now we have a major financial crisis that will blow Covid out of the water. Get ready. It started in China and is arriving here this week. There will not be a "return back to normal". What you see is what you get.

This didn’t age well.

[ikarus]

I am currently with family and many relatives and friends who are living in a European country. They ARE going through a 4th wave at the moment...7,000 + cases per day. One fifth of total population of Canada...and you know what, life goes on. People go to concerts, weddings, funerals, kids are back to school. Vaccinated barely 50% of their population.

How is their hospitals handling it though? If they have the reserve capacity to handle the uptick, that's one thing. Otherwise, people will have a lot more funerals to go to.

Hospitals are open for all patients, surgeries and other treatments as well. On average 20-35 people die (with covid symptoms) out of daily average of 270 deaths. All I'm saying, life goes on, life with risks that we all have to take.

[ALPApolicy]

Might we have a name of this country?

[737Maximilian]

I am currently with family and many relatives and friends who are living in a European country. They ARE going through a 4th wave at the moment...7,000 + cases per day. One fifth of total population of Canada...and you know what, life goes on. People go to concerts, weddings, funerals, kids are back to school. Vaccinated barely 50% of their population.

How is their hospitals handling it though? If they have the reserve capacity to handle the uptick, that's one thing. Otherwise, people will have a lot more funerals to go to.

Hospitals are open for all patients, surgeries and other treatments as well. On average 20-35 people die (with covid symptoms) out of daily average of 270 deaths. All I'm saying, life goes on, life with risks that we all have to take.

So a country with 20% the population of Canada has 50-90% the number of deaths? Actually, if you factor out BC/AB for their low vaccination rates, there were only 6 deaths in Canada yesterday, which means your country has 330-580% the number of deaths. How is this an ideal outcome?

I'd love to get back to normal, more than most I'd say. I was furloughed due to COVID, and I'm looking at another 1.5-2 years until I'm back flying. That said, simply wishing virus away and acting like everything is normal is not the solution. It will keep propagating and mutating, further adding to the deaths and overwhelming our healthcare systems. Thankfully, we do have a clear way out of this, and that's through mass vaccinations. So get vaccinated, for fucks sakes.

[montado]

I'd love to get back to normal, more than most I'd say. I was furloughed due to COVID, and I'm looking at another 1.5-2 years until I'm back flying. That said, simply wishing virus away and acting like everything is normal is not the solution. It will keep propagating and mutating, further adding to the deaths and overwhelming our healthcare systems. Thankfully, we do have a clear way out of this, and that's through mass vaccinations. So get vaccinated, for fucks sakes.

How sure are you that vaccines are the way out? I think if you can’t accept going back to normal today, a few more vaccinated won’t be a game changer. I’m not so sure the way out is clear.

I will keep acting like everything is normal. No one is going to tell me I can’t go celebrate Christmas this year to keep cases down

[Inverted2]

I'd love to get back to normal, more than most I'd say. I was furloughed due to COVID, and I'm looking at another 1.5-2 years until I'm back flying. That said, simply wishing virus away and acting like everything is normal is not the solution. It will keep propagating and mutating, further adding to the deaths and overwhelming our healthcare systems. Thankfully, we do have a clear way out of this, and that's through mass vaccinations. So get vaccinated, for fucks sakes.

How sure are you that vaccines are the way out? I think if you can’t accept going back to normal today, a few more vaccinated won’t be a game changer. I’m not so sure the way out is clear.

I will keep acting like everything is normal. No one is going to tell me I can’t go celebrate Christmas this year to keep cases down

Christmas? Don't you mean the 5th wave and the new ***** variant? Movement between cities will be strictly limited and you will only be permitted to be outside 1 hr per day to exercise (masked of course) Just look at Australia right now if you don't believe me...

[montado]

Yeah but is anyone here following those rules? I see everyone out back to normal. Things look basically normal except for masks. I don’t even know what Ontario’s “rules” are for gathering, nor do I give a shit. When thanksgiving comes my whole family of 50 will be getting together, with no masks. No one is really listening to this anymore are they?

[ikarus]

Might we have a name of this country?

Very close to this country...

https://youtu.be/cXTGgup_Yto

How is this an ideal outcome?

Well, if you watch the video of the president above maybe it will answer your question. There is no ideal. And those death rates were pretty much the same as last year before the vax rolled out. And remember the country is very densely populated vs Canada.

[737Maximilian]

How sure are you that vaccines are the way out? I think if you can’t accept going back to normal today, a few more vaccinated won’t be a game changer. I’m not so sure the way out is clear.

I will keep acting like everything is normal. No one is going to tell me I can’t go celebrate Christmas this year to keep cases down

I'm confident, given virtually all experts agree on this fact. One only needs to look at the situation in Alberta, and the number of vaccinated versus unvaccinated who are hospitalized, proportional to the total population who've been vaccinated or not, to get a clear picture.

Yeah but is anyone here following those rules? I see everyone out back to normal. Things look basically normal except for masks. I don’t even know what Ontario’s “rules” are for gathering, nor do I give a shit. When thanksgiving comes my whole family of 50 will be getting together, with no masks. No one is really listening to this anymore are they?

You're proving my point. You're able to enjoy these freedoms thanks to the higher vaccination rates in Ontario and Quebec. That said, higher rates will still be necessary to prevent the spread of the delta variant from overwhelming our healthcare system, as clearly stated by health experts. This isn't rocket science guys - get vaccinated.

How sure are you that vaccines are the way out? I think if you can’t accept going back to normal today, a few more vaccinated won’t be a game changer. I’m not so sure the way out is clear.

I will keep acting like everything is normal. No one is going to tell me I can’t go celebrate Christmas this year to keep cases down

So the death rates have stayed steady despite the introduction of the much more deadly and transmissible variant of the disease? Wouldn't that suggest the vaccine, even with only a 50% vaccination rate, is highly effective?

Honestly, what the @#$! are you talking about? The ideal situation is we achieve herd immunity through mass vaccination. The ideal situation is that our healthcare system isn't overwhelmed. The ideal situation is children with cancer aren't having their treatments delayed. The ideal situation is that we can all go back to our normal lives. These are all readily achievable, except for the actions of a selfish few.

[ikarus]

Brother, you keep living in your cave and hope for the best... I'm telling you that life over there is pretty normal aside from the indoor masks policy. No child is waiting for surgery... That was during the first wave as the virus was unknown to us all.

[737Maximilian]

Brother, you keep living in your cave and hope for the best... I'm telling you that life over there is pretty normal aside from the indoor masks policy. No child is waiting for surgery... That was during the first wave as the virus was unknown to us all.

I'm not hoping for the best. I did my part and got vaccinated. The result: my province (with double the population of your country) only had 2 deaths yesterday.

[Inverted2]

Yeah but is anyone here following those rules? I see everyone out back to normal. Things look basically normal except for masks. I don’t even know what Ontario’s “rules” are for gathering, nor do I give a shit. When thanksgiving comes my whole family of 50 will be getting together, with no masks. No one is really listening to this anymore are they?

No, I’m the same. I’ve visited whoever and whenever I want pretty much since the start of this scam and no one close to me or myself got sick. I will continue to do so in the future no matter what new rules they come up with. And the only mask I’ve worn around family was when I was helping my dad remove some old insulation.

[imjustlurking]

No, I’m the same. I’ve visited whoever and whenever I want pretty much since the start of this scam and no one close to me or myself got sick. I will continue to do so in the future no matter what new rules they come up with. And the only mask I’ve worn around family was when I was helping my dad remove some old insulation.

Ah yes, the "I haven't experienced it so it obviously doesn't exist" belief. Keep telling yourself that buddy.

While you're at it, residential schools never existed, the Holocaust didn't happen, and the moon landings were recorded on a set in LA.

[FL320]

Family members and few friends have been diagnosed with Delta variant; none had worst symptoms than a light cold (none vaccinated).
I’ve been in Europe and I can definitely say that Canadians have been extremely brainwashed with the Covid; it’s very shocking to see how extreme people and the government are here. It clearly became an extremist country; I personally don’t endorse that kind of mentality + the Trudeau re-election…after 23 years here I am leaving