Take the vaccine, or lose your job - WTF?

[imjustlurking]

Without vaccines, NO ONE WOULD BE FLYING. Without vaccines our healthcare systems would implode much like Alberta is right now. THE ONLY REASON most of us are still employed, and flying more and more each month, is because VACCINES WORK.

If you can't bear to shoulder an ounce of civic responsibility, least of all one that has ensured the survival of our industry and employment, then I very politely suggest you get the @#$! out of the way!

"How can I help?" (you, me, ect.) vs "how can I be helped?" (Altiplano, Montado, ect.)

[hithere]

It’s quite simple: pilots at most airlines who refuse to get vaccinated will be placed on unpaid leave in the coming months. Not only will it be unpaid, it will be without benefits, passes etc. They are wasting their time arguing their case here, it won’t change that reality.

[imjustlurking]

It’s quite simple: pilots at most airlines who refuse to get vaccinated will be placed on unpaid leave in the coming months. Not only will it be unpaid, it will be without benefits, passes etc. They are wasting their time arguing their case here, it won’t change that reality.

Most of the people here that are arguing are vaccinated and want a reason to be upset. Montado is a good example of this.

[loudmouth]

It’s quite simple: pilots at most airlines who refuse to get vaccinated will be placed on unpaid leave in the coming months. Not only will it be unpaid, it will be without benefits, passes etc. They are wasting their time arguing their case here, it won’t change that reality.

Most of the people here that are arguing are vaccinated and want a reason to be upset. Montado is a good example of this.

I'm vaccinated and personally think vaccine passports are bullshit.

One can be vaxd and still be against over reaching government mandates.

I'm for personal responsibility.

[goldeneagle]

I'm vaccinated and personally think vaccine passports are bullshit.

You have been carying one your whole career in aviation, just didn't realize it.

When I went to Europe the first time as a child (mid 60's) my parents had to produce vaccination paperwork to prove I met the entry requirements for the country to which we were headed. The second time, early 70's, same drill. when I went on my own in my early 20's, no paperwork was required. The reason was simple, they had acknowledged that if you went thru the Canadian school system as a child, you got the vaccinations they required as a matter of course. Carrying a Canadian passport with a birthdate during or after 1958 was considered 'proof enough' for vaccination requirements. IOW, the Canadian passport is already a 'vaccination passport'.

[loudmouth]

I'm vaccinated and personally think vaccine passports are bullshit.

You have been carying one your whole career in aviation, just didn't realize it.

When I went to Europe the first time as a child (mid 60's) my parents had to produce vaccination paperwork to prove I met the entry requirements for the country to which we were headed. The second time, early 70's, same drill. when I went on my own in my early 20's, no paperwork was required. The reason was simple, they had acknowledged that if you went thru the Canadian school system as a child, you got the vaccinations they required as a matter of course. Carrying a Canadian passport with a birthdate during or after 1958 was considered 'proof enough' for vaccination requirements. IOW, the Canadian passport is already a 'vaccination passport'.

My point to be clear is reference to domestic passports. If another country required it, such as yellow fever for some African countries then I have no problem with that.

What I am against is the governerment having a say over who can go to a movie theatre or not, or keep their job as a baggage handler for example (federally regulated industry).

Not against international travel vaccine passports.

[Mrbobmarly111]

Can you at least agree that you can disagree on the government telling us when and where we have to provide proof of vaccination. But at the same time agree its completely stupid to not get vaccinated now that it is available everywhere?

Personally I dont mind having a vaccine passport to go see a movie etc. But I can see how someone might make an argument against it.

But and its a big but. I also believe you have to be a complete idiot who doesn't believe in science if you haven't already gotten one.

These are two separate arguments. Please get vaccinated and by all means protest the passport system. I dont agree with it but its your life. But please please go get the shot you dumb dumb person.

[Mr. North]

My point to be clear is reference to domestic passports.

We cannot afford to do without these measures while our healthcare system is being crippled by the unvaccinated. It really is that simple.

In a perfect world, our healthcare system would be robust enough to allow for a "free" society during a pandemic. Unfortunately that perfect world doesn't exist and never will. No nation, not even the Nordic states with their world class healthcare, possesses the resources (ICU beds, qualified staff) to accommodate a virus that spreads exponentially within a free flowing society.

None of this is outside our Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Restrictions can be placed on our rights so long as they are proportional to the problem they seek to address and rationally connected to that aim. This is not a new principle, something the faux libertarians de jure fail to acknowledge.

If some in society can’t recognize the enormous social benefit and moral obligation of getting vaccinated, they deserve to be isolated until the healthcare system can accommodate their reckless behavior and/or they change their mind and get vaccinated. Expect zero sympathy from those of us who have done our part, got vaccinated, and would like to carry on with our lives in safety.

[loudmouth]

Can you at least agree that you can disagree on the government telling us when and where we have to provide proof of vaccination. But at the same time agree its completely stupid to not get vaccinated now that it is available everywhere?

Personally I dont mind having a vaccine passport to go see a movie etc. But I can see how someone might make an argument against it.

But and its a big but. I also believe you have to be a complete idiot who doesn't believe in science if you haven't already gotten one.

These are two separate arguments. Please get vaccinated and by all means protest the passport system. I dont agree with it but its your life. But please please go get the shot you dumb dumb person.

As mentioned already, I am vaccinated. I got jabbed literally the first day I could. Doing my part yada yada yada...

I just want this to all be over.

That said until the government and media transition away from the "case" numbers and focus on the hospitalizations and ICU admissions, we'll be in this for years.

We're 80% double dosed over 12 already here in BC. Of those who are left many are kids in the up to 12 age group which should get theirs soon, some with actual medical reasons to not get it which leaves a very small subset of people actually refusing the vax. A number so small I just can't see the justification for a domestic passport. It's being used as a big stick, not as an actual means to stop spread. I personally could care less who I come into contact with, being vaccinated. And I know many people who feel the same.

[Mr. North]

That said until the government and media transition away from the "case" numbers and focus on the hospitalizations and ICU admissions

Want to focus on hospitalizations and ICU admissions?

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/ ... ave-begun/

Just another provincial healthcare system imploding despite it being 100% preventable. Yes vaccine mandates are the stick, and it's being wielded against a small, selfish minority that is quite literally jeopardizing the health of everyone else.

Zero sympathy for the unvaccinated and their "individual freedoms" during this crisis. Get with the program or get out of the way.

[loudmouth]

Alberta has the lowest vaccination rate in the country.

My comments refer to BC. Which has one of the highest.

[montado]

If you are against getting a covid vaccine, would you do it for 15 million dollars?

Andrew Wiggins is banned from playing home games in California because they won't recognize his religious exemption request. He can only okay away games. 15 mill is half is salary. Good for him for standing up for his beliefs but 15 mil, I think I would repent.

[photofly]

Ender plays football?

[flyer 1492]

The hospital numbers are skewed in each province depending on how many nurses are able to work. Here in Alberta after the third wave, the government was insisting that the nurses and other health care workers take a 3% pay cut and forgo bonuses. Quite a few nurses had had enough of the heavy hand considering how over worked they were in the beginning of 2021. No nurses no beds.

Just like aviation, nurses don't grow on trees.

[Posthumane]

Unfortunately the staffing issues plaguing Alberta health are a long term issue that predates the pandemic. Even in 2009 Alberta had one of the lowest numbers of ICU beds per capita (although BC was worse, they have a surge reserve). By 2015 the number of beds had was the same (in spite of increasing population) at 292 (with a surge capacity of 373). Now they are at an all out surge capacity of 343 with a baseline of 173. The provincial governments have not been good to the healthcare system for years (I guess they need the money for war rooms).

[altiplano]

Semantics and insults.

That's all you have.

Insults? You just told him to grow up!

You think the government is going to rush into passing legislation the day after the election?

Do you know what semantics means?

I told him to grow up because he's casting insults vs. having a conversation.

If the government wants a policy in place 1 month from now - that's what they said - then they better get going and get the details declared.

[cdnavater]

Semantics and insults.

That's all you have.

Insults? You just told him to grow up!

You think the government is going to rush into passing legislation the day after the election?

Do you know what semantics means?

I told him to grow up because he's casting insults vs. having a conversation.

If the government wants a policy in place 1 month from now - that's what they said - then they better get going and get the details declared.

I’m not sure what to think about this, I don’t think it’s going to make any difference whatsoever to the outcome. You will need to be vaccinated to do your job, ie; go to other countries and it’s a hardship for the company to accommodate your irrational decision to not.
I would feel bad for you but my patience for anti-Covid vaccine people is gone!
If you are not, you WILL be unemployed at the end of this month regardless of the federal mandate.

[imjustlurking]

Semantics and insults.

That's all you have.

Insults? You just told him to grow up!

You think the government is going to rush into passing legislation the day after the election?

Do you know what semantics means?

I told him to grow up because he's casting insults vs. having a conversation.

If the government wants a policy in place 1 month from now - that's what they said - then they better get going and get the details declared.

You don't have conversations... you dismiss valid arguments that dispel your opinions and respond with false equivalences. This forum has rules against me explaining to you how I truly feel, but to put it simply, I do not have much respect for you.

[altiplano]

I’m not sure what to think about this, I don’t think it’s going to make any difference whatsoever to the outcome. You will need to be vaccinated to do your job, ie; go to other countries and it’s a hardship for the company to accommodate your irrational decision to not.
I would feel bad for you but my patience for anti-Covid vaccine people is gone!
If you are not, you WILL be unemployed at the end of this month regardless of the federal mandate.

Which other countries require foreign crew doing their jobs to be vaccinated?

[TG]

Which other countries require foreign crew doing their jobs to be vaccinated?

Who cares if you are vaccinated. Because you already are correct!?

You and the antivax gang are behaving exactly like this crew did:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter ... Flight_401

The crash occurred while the entire cockpit crew was preoccupied with a burnt-out landing gear indicator light. They failed to notice that the autopilot had inadvertently been disconnected, and as a result, the aircraft gradually lost altitude and crashed.

You are not seing the big picture at all!

[montado]

Do tell me the big picture.. I want to know! I have been looking at the gear light for 18 months! I eagerly await your reply!

[Counterpoint]

I’m not sure what to think about this, I don’t think it’s going to make any difference whatsoever to the outcome. You will need to be vaccinated to do your job, ie; go to other countries and it’s a hardship for the company to accommodate your irrational decision to not.
I would feel bad for you but my patience for anti-Covid vaccine people is gone!
If you are not, you WILL be unemployed at the end of this month regardless of the federal mandate.

Which other countries require foreign crew doing their jobs to be vaccinated?

United Airlines (I know they aren’t a country, but still)

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/06/united- ... oyees.html

“ The Air Line Pilots Association, which represents United’s more than 12,000 aviators, believes the mandate is legal. It said the “small number of pilots” who don’t agree with the policy or plan to remain unvaccinated should contact their chief pilot’s office.”

[altiplano]

"But still" what?

What countries require aircrew to be vaccinated?

Canada doesn't.

US doesn't.

Mexico doesn't.

In fact no country in the Americas does.

EU doesn't.

UK doesn't.

So who?

People here are stating that it's a legal requirement. Where?

[a220hereicome]

People here are stating that it's a legal requirement. Where?

altiplano.

I, for one, am not stating that it's a legal requirement. You may be right, the government may not bring the vaccine mandate to legislation. They may just rely on a ministerial order, or policy, etc. Or do nothing further. If they do put forth legislation at some point, the Liberals can probably get the 11 votes needed from the other side of the house to get it passed. All party leaders have come out in favour of vaccination, whether they support stricter measures such as vaccine passports or mandatory vaccination in certain workplaces remains to be seen.

In your case, I think all of the above is irrelevant. Your employer has put out numerous, unambiguous communications that spell out the very serious consequences of not getting vaccinated. They've also said they're going to proceed with this policy regardless of what the government does.

You're looking at the weather map, trying to decipher the isobars. But if you look out the window, there's a big dark cloud with lots of lightning coming your way.

If your game plan is to challenge your employer's policy because the government hasn't passed specific legislation, well, bonne chance. The legal minds out there have said this policy will survive any challenge.

[yycflyguy]

"But still" what?

What countries require aircrew to be vaccinated?

Canada doesn't.

US doesn't.

Mexico doesn't.

In fact no country in the Americas does.

EU doesn't.

UK doesn't.

So who?

People here are stating that it's a legal requirement. Where?

Canada does as of August 13th 2021. Air Canada made it a requirement on August 25th, 2021

Air Canada Introduces Mandatory COVID-19 Vaccination Policy for All Employees and New Hires

https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2021-08 ... -New-Hires

Government of Canada to require vaccination of federal workforce and federally regulated transportation sector

https://www.canada.ca/en/treasury-board ... ector.html