Take the vaccine, or lose your job - WTF?

[dialdriver]

Make all the jokes you want montado. I just had a coworker die of the disease last night, after deciding not to get vaccinated. If we can reduce the number of unnecessary deaths by even one through collectively masking up, so be it. It's an extremely easy thing to do.

That said, best bet: go get vaccinated.

"I'm going to die, aren't I"

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatch ... -1.6191446

[montado]

That’s unfortunate. Shoulda woulda coulda vaccine.

I have anti vax family so don’t you worry my turn will come. But they get to make that choice.

I think people will lack empathy when the unvaccinated don’t pull through, as they had the choice. How much longer should everyone mask to save the unvaccinated? I know my answer.

If we can reduce the number of unnecessary deaths by even one through collectively masking up, so be it. It's an extremely easy thing to do.

And this is where you and I differ on opinion. Firstly you said they died because they chose not to get vaccinated, and that has nothing to do with masking. Also I’m curious if the colleague didn’t wear a mask, and did other people around them not mask like the policy that’s in place. The end result of living in a time where we have mask policy, is people still get covid (life always has risk). A mask may work some of the time, I have agreed targeted use masks sense. But telling everyone to mask all the time would be like telling people to wear a condom all the time.

So I disagree that “preventing one covid death makes it worth it for every canadian to mask all the time” because that’s like me saying “if we could prevent one highway death by reducing speed limits on the highway to 80 its worth it”

Life is risky, life is tragic. People need to just go live their best lives the best they can.

[accountant]

5 of my friends suffered from strokes or heart attacks after getting their vaccines this summer, but «it's only a coincidence», of course.
I don't want to try, I'll wait till we are sure those vaccines are not that bad, or when we have better vaccines.

How many of those friends ate like crap during covid, increased their alcohol intake, and were sitting on their butts?

Most I know who had issues --- already had underlying issues --- and / or vices that just blew up in their face.

Are you serious?? So why didn't someone (who makes and sells the vaccines) tell these folks to maybe hold on as it could "blow up in their face".??! Smh...

So we're the USA now where we have to tell idiots to stop being idiots? i.e. "Please don't put the exhaust pipe from the engine in your mouth, it might kill you, and since we've told you, you can't sue us"...

There is enough statistical proof that drinking went up, crappy eating went up, stress went up, depression went up, anxiety went up, you name it. You can't simply just say people had heart attacks because of the vaccine without proof.

I have three close people I know, all unrelated, all who didn't get the vax, all who were in the ICU in the last 3 weeks. 2 are on life support, one passed away four nights ago. All against the vax from day one.

So yes - I'm serious. We hear all these "supposed" reactions to the vaccine, from people saying someone knows someone who had something happen... but where's the evidence? Get those people to post their names and proof. Log the evidence so the trials and vaccines can get fixed.

Get the damn shot so we can all move on with our lives, or be willing to sit at home.

[737Maximilian]

montado,

I don't think our opinions on masks diverge that greatly. I realize masks offer only limited protection. Where we differ is on the risk versus reward calculation. For me, masking up costs almost nothing to our society, so any insignificant benefit is still worthwhile. In the time of a global pandemic, not masking up is akin to not wearing a seatbelt; it's easy to do, so why not just put it on.

[montado]

montado,

I don't think our opinions on masks diverge that greatly. I realize masks offer only limited protection. Where we differ is on the risk versus reward calculation. For me, masking up costs almost nothing to our society, so any insignificant benefit is still worthwhile. In the time of a global pandemic, not masking up is akin to not wearing a seatbelt; it's easy to do, so why not just put it on.

I agree with most of that where I think the data shows differently is masking kids. What is the consequence on the 5 to 18 year old demographic? This is a time to build social skills and relationships. They are missing out on a big part of developing. Much different than the impact on adults.

Imagine being in grade 5 today during pandemic times. Masks are a big deal!

[737Maximilian]

montado,

I agree with your assessment too. Expert opinion seems to vary on this, and it's hard to judge the impact masks might have on young-age development, or forecast what the long-term effect will be. I personally believe schools should be the first to remove masks and get back to normal on the flip side of this. The best way to reach that goal is through maximizing vaccination rates though; ensuring this can be done safely.

[imjustlurking]

montado,

I don't think our opinions on masks diverge that greatly. I realize masks offer only limited protection. Where we differ is on the risk versus reward calculation. For me, masking up costs almost nothing to our society, so any insignificant benefit is still worthwhile. In the time of a global pandemic, not masking up is akin to not wearing a seatbelt; it's easy to do, so why not just put it on.

I agree with most of that where I think the data shows differently is masking kids. What is the consequence on the 5 to 18 year old demographic? This is a time to build social skills and relationships. They are missing out on a big part of developing. Much different than the impact on adults.

Imagine being in grade 5 today during pandemic times. Masks are a big deal!

Imagine your 5 year old getting COVID and having trouble breathing. Masks are a big deal!

[montado]

montado,

I don't think our opinions on masks diverge that greatly. I realize masks offer only limited protection. Where we differ is on the risk versus reward calculation. For me, masking up costs almost nothing to our society, so any insignificant benefit is still worthwhile. In the time of a global pandemic, not masking up is akin to not wearing a seatbelt; it's easy to do, so why not just put it on.

I agree with most of that where I think the data shows differently is masking kids. What is the consequence on the 5 to 18 year old demographic? This is a time to build social skills and relationships. They are missing out on a big part of developing. Much different than the impact on adults.

Imagine being in grade 5 today during pandemic times. Masks are a big deal!

Imagine your 5 year old getting COVID and having trouble breathing. Masks are a big deal!

How many kids under 12 are in ICUs in Canada with covid? Statistically they are the exception not the rule.

Imagine spending two years of your life masked in school being told by your parents if you don't mask you might die.

I know people today who are vaccinated who still won't go inside extended families homes even with everyone being vaccinated. I'm talking about people who are smart people, graduated top of class in law school. I just can't understand it, if that's how you decide to live how will you ever change your mind, or what will make it safe enough to be with people inside?

[Inverted2]

montado,

I don't think our opinions on masks diverge that greatly. I realize masks offer only limited protection. Where we differ is on the risk versus reward calculation. For me, masking up costs almost nothing to our society, so any insignificant benefit is still worthwhile. In the time of a global pandemic, not masking up is akin to not wearing a seatbelt; it's easy to do, so why not just put it on.

I agree with most of that where I think the data shows differently is masking kids. What is the consequence on the 5 to 18 year old demographic? This is a time to build social skills and relationships. They are missing out on a big part of developing. Much different than the impact on adults.

Imagine being in grade 5 today during pandemic times. Masks are a big deal!

Imagine your 5 year old getting COVID and having trouble breathing. Masks are a big deal!

Better lock your kids in the basement for the next 10 years and double or triple mask them just to be safe!

[imjustlurking]

I agree with most of that where I think the data shows differently is masking kids. What is the consequence on the 5 to 18 year old demographic? This is a time to build social skills and relationships. They are missing out on a big part of developing. Much different than the impact on adults.

Imagine being in grade 5 today during pandemic times. Masks are a big deal!

Imagine your 5 year old getting COVID and having trouble breathing. Masks are a big deal!

How many kids under 12 are in ICUs in Canada with covid? Statistically they are the exception not the rule.

Imagine spending two years of your life masked in school being told by your parents if you don't mask you might die.

I know people today who are vaccinated who still won't go inside extended families homes even with everyone being vaccinated. I'm talking about people who are smart people, graduated top of class in law school. I just can't understand it, if that's how you decide to live how will you ever change your mind, or what will make it safe enough to be with people inside?

Get vaccinated and socially distance when able.

[montado]

For how long? The vaccine is it. If you won't accept some sort of normal today what will change your mind? We are likely at as low a risk as we will ever be with covid. Or am I missing something... Is there something ground breaking worth waiting for that will make life even safer with covid? How many years of life will you give up? Are you going to cancel Christmas this year? These are the questions I have for my lawyer friend.

Are we just waiting for when we "feel" safe? If Justin Trudeau stands up and says covid is now over is that what we need to feel safe?

[PC-SUN]

https://youtu.be/00HNpAG13Sk

[imjustlurking]

For how long? The vaccine is it. If you won't accept some sort of normal today what will change your mind? We are likely at as low a risk as we will ever be with covid. Or am I missing something... Is there something ground breaking worth waiting for that will make life even safer with covid? How many years of life will you give up? Are you going to cancel Christmas this year? These are the questions I have for my lawyer friend.

Are we just waiting for when we "feel" safe? If Justin Trudeau stands up and says covid is now over is that what we need to feel safe?

First off, Trudeau can go appropriate someone's religious gear as he walks himself off the end of the earth.

Second, there is no end to this. Just like the flu, it'll likely be a continuing disease.

The thing I want to see is hospitals not overwhelmed by unvaccinated people needing intubation. Once the hospitals are able to resume all of their elective procedures, I would consider the pandemic to be over. Until then, I expect everyone to do everything reasonable to reduce the risk and shorten the duration of this pandemic. Getting vaccinated is reasonable.

[goldeneagle]

I've done my personal risk analysis. This should be a personal choice.

It is a personal choice. The problem you have is not one of choice, it's one of the consequences of your choices.

If you are currently employed by Air Canada, and choose to not get vaccinated, that is your choice, but Nov 1 is coming, and that's when you get to experience the consequences of that choice.

[montado]

Just lurking, let us know your list of what's not reasonable to do right now?

[ikarus]

For how long? The vaccine is it. If you won't accept some sort of normal today what will change your mind? We are likely at as low a risk as we will ever be with covid. Or am I missing something... Is there something ground breaking worth waiting for that will make life even safer with covid? How many years of life will you give up? Are you going to cancel Christmas this year? These are the questions I have for my lawyer friend.

Are we just waiting for when we "feel" safe? If Justin Trudeau stands up and says covid is now over is that what we need to feel safe?

How long? Well apparently in Australia they think FOREVER

[montado]

Well this is where we go full circle… we are back to talking about being responsible and limiting what we do. Yet MPP’s we’re travelling last winter when we had no vaccine etc. Thank goodness we aren’t like the Aussie lol.

So my question is are you not having thanksgiving, Halloween and Christmas this year to stop the spread? For how long does this shit go on? I know some people who won’t do these things. Covid never ends but our perception of risk can adapt. We are vaccinated! Get back to normal, that’s what the vaccines were for.

[photofly]

So my question is are you not having thanksgiving, Halloween and Christmas this year to stop the spread?

Thanksgiving, halloween and Christmas are three festivals driven by religion that all critical-thinking individuals should disdain. Why would such a data-driven intellect as yourself want to celebrate giving thanks for the blessing of a harvest, ghosts rising before all saints day, or the birth of mankind’s lord and saviour? Where’s the data to support any of it? You should show some consistency.

[montado]

So my question is are you not having thanksgiving, Halloween and Christmas this year to stop the spread?

Thanksgiving, halloween and Christmas are three festivals driven by religion that all critical-thinking individuals should disdain. Why would such a data-driven intellect as yourself want to celebrate giving thanks for the blessing of a harvest, ghosts rising before all saints day, or the birth of mankind’s lord and saviour? Where’s the data to support any of it? You should show some consistency.

You caught me. Truth is I'm just a social being and I'll make any excuses to party and drink beers with my family. I just use holidays as my excuse for my behaviour.

I look at the ICU situation like a company with laid off staff asking the non laid off people to work overtime. How long does this go on for? Why hasn't AHS hired the extra 2k of staff to make more beds? How long do we let them make it our problem rather than see them make the changes we need in our health system? This has been nearly two years of listening to a company tell us we are the problem and we need to work overtime because they don't want to actually fix the system.

I don't accept that this will take as long as it takes, or as long as hospitals are full we need measures. Fix the hospitals, it's not like we are short that many beds. You could hire 15k people across the country and that would solve bed issues (let's be honest we probably have this staff in our military all sitting around taking the pandemic off being paid to be home). Instead some of the governments are cutting pay and making people leave then they hold us hostage.

[imjustlurking]

Just lurking, let us know your list of what's not reasonable to do right now?

The irresponsible list is too long. Here is what you should do to help the collective out.

Wash your hands. Wear a mask when outside of your bubble (yes, we're back to bubbles instead of immediate household members). Get vaccinated.

[a220hereicome]

If the government wants a policy in place 1 month from now - that's what they said - then they better get going and get the details declared.

altiplano.

At some point you're going to have to face the reality that you're not going to be allowed in the flight deck after November 1.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politic ... ns-by-end/

Canadians who want to travel domestically by plane or on inter-provincial trains have just weeks to get vaccinated, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said Tuesday, adding that ending the pandemic will be his government’s “very top priority,” followed by addressing climate change and cost-of-living issues.

At his first major press conference since last week’s election, Mr. Trudeau confirmed that his government will implement all the vaccination-related promises the Liberal Party made just before and during the election. Those include the creation of vaccine mandates for employees of the federal civil service and federally-regulated industries, and the introduction of a requirement that everyone travelling by air or inter-provincial rail provide proof of vaccination.

“If you want to, or are planning on getting on a plane or a train in the coming weeks or months, make sure that you and all members of your family over 12 years old have gotten vaccinated and are getting your second shot if you haven’t already,” Mr. Trudeau said.

“You will not be able to travel on a plane or a train in Canada if you are not fully vaccinated.”

Days before the August election call, the government announced the planned vaccine mandate for domestic travel, which would also apply to cruise ships. In a series of posts to Twitter on Tuesday, Transport Minister Omar Alghabra said the vaccination requirements for federally regulated industries and some domestic travellers will be in place by the end of October.

Mr. Trudeau told reporters on Tuesday that he will unveil a new cabinet in October, and that the House of Commons will be recalled some time before Dec. 21. He also announced that Chrystia Freeland will stay on as Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister.

Prior to calling the election, the Liberals expected to sweep to a majority based on the government’s handling of the pandemic. Instead, they will return to Parliament as a minority, with nearly the same share of seats in the House of Commons that they had prior to the Sept. 20 vote. Despite Mr. Trudeau’s failure to win a majority government, he said Tuesday that he has a strengthened mandate to implement his policy proposals, which include $10-a-day child care and moving “even faster” on climate change.

“Canadians were very clear that they want those progressive, big, bold ideas to be delivered by their Parliament and by their government. And that’s exactly what we’re going to work on,” Mr. Trudeau said.

The Prime Minister also confirmed that, while he plans to increase spending on health care, the federal government will not be giving cash to premiers with no strings attached. “We’re going to be working together in partnership to expect results. That means there will not be zero conditions,” Mr. Trudeau said.

He gave no indication that he is looking to step down as Liberal Leader. When asked about his future, he said that Canadians “returned a Parliament with a mandate to do big, ambitious, progressive things for Canadians and I can’t wait to get into it.”

And he said he hopes he will be able to govern for the full four-year mandate, even with a minority government. “I am intending to govern as long as Parliament gives us confidence to do so,” Mr. Trudeau said.

Conservative Leader Erin O’Toole said in a statement that his party is “ready to get to work,” and will “focus on bringing Canadians together, to ensure there is an economic recovery in all regions and all sectors, and to make life more affordable for everyone.”

In an e-mailed statement, NDP MP Peter Julian said his party believes it’s time for the government to get back to work. “Parliament should be recalled as soon as possible so we can keep fighting to get Canadians the help they need to get through this pandemic,” he wrote.

In a post-election interview, Ontario Liberal MP Nathaniel Erskine-Smith said he did not have a view on Mr. Trudeau’s future as Leader. He said he has had his share of disagreements with the Prime Minister over the years, but that Mr. Trudeau managed the COVID-19 crisis with competence.

“I am much more interested in getting back to work and getting things done, and much less interested in the parliamentary intrigue of it all,” he said.

Michele Cadario, who was the federal campaign director for the Liberals in 2004, said the election outcome was a relief for Liberals, considering the fact that at certain points in the campaign it looked as if the Conservatives could form government. Ms. Cadario said the election result shows Canadians want the federal parties to co-operate. Given that Mr. Trudeau held on to government, she added, he’ll stay at the top of the Liberal Party as long as he wants to.

“He might not be the same rock star that he was in the 2015 election campaign. But nobody could be, because now you have an actual record of governing,” she said. “But he brought the Liberal Party back from the brink and I think most Liberals remember and understand that.”

With a report from Bill Curry in Ottawa

[Posthumane]

I don't accept that this will take as long as it takes, or as long as hospitals are full we need measures. Fix the hospitals, it's not like we are short that many beds. You could hire 15k people across the country and that would solve bed issues (let's be honest we probably have this staff in our military all sitting around taking the pandemic off being paid to be home). Instead some of the governments are cutting pay and making people leave then they hold us hostage.

You think a military with 68k pers has 15k medical staff just sitting around? From what I have seen the scope of operations has not significantly reduced in the last year. We do have a bunch of air Canada pilots sitting around doing nothing though, why don't we just put them to work in the hospitals. When can you start?

The Alberta government certainly could have increased the ahs budget and started hiring more staff a year ago, but that would require a lot of people to be convinced that this isn't just the flu. Otherwise, why would they want to spend an extra few billion dollars, especially when half the people thought this thing was completely made up and the government's while platform was based on reducing spending. So, they didn't do it and now it's too late. In order to meet current demand with covid cases as well as the regular seasonal load with no service interruptions ICU capacity would need to be at least 2.5x what it was a year ago. And then how long do you keep that capacity around for? As soon as cases start to drop people are going to demand a decrease in "wasteful spending" that's keeping all those empty beds available, which happened just within the last year.

[PC-SUN]

So my question is are you not having thanksgiving, Halloween and Christmas this year to stop the spread?

Thanksgiving, halloween and Christmas are three festivals driven by religion that all critical-thinking individuals should disdain. Why would such a data-driven intellect as yourself want to celebrate giving thanks for the blessing of a harvest, ghosts rising before all saints day, or the birth of mankind’s lord and saviour? Where’s the data to support any of it? You should show some consistency.

You can start here
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/

[goldeneagle]

You can start here
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/

You are confusing a thousand year old fairy tale with observed data

[ikarus]

So RCMP union will protect its members who choose not to be part of this experiment...

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6190803?__vfz= ... =true&s=08

NBA players union as well...