Captain Upgrade Times

[zipper]

Hi All,

I've got 5000 TT with 1000 on the DHC-8-100. I've also got my ATPL and an instructional background. I'm wondering how long to upgrade to Capt at YYZ these days. Also, how long to get to training Captain, and what is the pay like?

[Dizzy D]

Hi All,

I've got 5000 TT with 1000 on the DHC-8-100. I've also got my ATPL and an instructional background. I'm wondering how long to upgrade to Capt at YYZ these days. Also, how long to get to training Captain, and what is the pay like?

With that time, you would upgrade as soon as the next bid came out. Encore is a little short on YYZ spots right now. Chances are you would take an upgrade through YYC.

[B208]

Hi All,

I've got 5000 TT with 1000 on the DHC-8-100. I've also got my ATPL and an instructional background. I'm wondering how long to upgrade to Capt at YYZ these days. Also, how long to get to training Captain, and what is the pay like?

With that time, you would upgrade as soon as the next bid came out. Encore is a little short on YYZ spots right now. Chances are you would take an upgrade through YYC.

Thanks! How does the company feel about commuting?

[avbird]

Hi All,

I've got 5000 TT with 1000 on the DHC-8-100. I've also got my ATPL and an instructional background. I'm wondering how long to upgrade to Capt at YYZ these days. Also, how long to get to training Captain, and what is the pay like?

With that time, you would upgrade as soon as the next bid came out. Encore is a little short on YYZ spots right now. Chances are you would take an upgrade through YYC.

did you see the last upgrade list?

[zipper]

Hi All,

I've got 5000 TT with 1000 on the DHC-8-100. I've also got my ATPL and an instructional background. I'm wondering how long to upgrade to Capt at YYZ these days. Also, how long to get to training Captain, and what is the pay like?

With that time, you would upgrade as soon as the next bid came out. Encore is a little short on YYZ spots right now. Chances are you would take an upgrade through YYC.

did you see the last upgrade list?

I didn't, could you fill me in?

[avbird]

20 yyc 0 yyz, so not much for yyz

[Rezy]

Only hiring FO’s at the moment, you will need a minimum of 6 months in the right seat, no one upgrades without first completing their 6 month recurrent.

[flyinhigh]

As mentioned, YYZ is fully staffed now whereas YYC is short. The last bid had 20 YYC upgrades and none in YYZ.

Upgrade will be a minimum of 6 months, potentially longer as many FO's are ahead of you and meet the requirements now. As for a training position, that is anyones guess.

[Victory]

How long is the typical date of hire at Encore to flow to Westjet these days?

[DropTanks]

Seems to be around 3yrs right now but by the time the next group goes through it’ll be like 3.5yrs for them. Can fluctuate because the uptake isn’t at a regular pace.

[seriousflyer]

It could be as long as 6 years to flow.
There is 500 encore pilots in line to flow. Our best year of flow was 80 pilots. Do the math...6 years × 80 pilots is ~ 500 pilots. Those are in optimal hiring conditions.

If your coming to encore prepare for 5+ years to flow, and from date of hire on the property to westjet captain will be about 12 years. Roughly.

PM me for details.

[Mr. North]

Agree with the above.

Its been a long while since we've seen regular flow like that. Outside of their most recent groundschool, there has been zero movement for the better part of a year. Without a good contract (that keeps senior pilots around) I doubt we will see a return of aggressive flow as the airline will not be able to sustain itself with the reduced experience in the cockpit. So 4-5 years can very easily transform into 6-8.

The capture of Swoop flying, the arrival of the 87's in 2019, regular attrition to AC are all variables that enhance movement. But at the end of the day flow has always depended on Encore's ability to perform. They will stop flow before they park planes.

[DropTanks]

Keep in mind as well if mainline adopts a reserve system that will mean more hiring/flow as well as if TC gets off their completely useless asses and puts out the new fatigue rules = more hiring/flow.

There are no guarantees. Assume longer wait, hope for shorter wait.

[flyinhigh]

FYI, With the latest bid at Encore for upgrades.

They couldn't fill all the seats for upgrade, so they are now going to be re-listing the Captains Ad.

[Bede]

It could be as long as 6 years to flow.
There is 500 encore pilots in line to flow. Our best year of flow was 80 pilots. Do the math...6 years × 80 pilots is ~ 500 pilots. Those are in optimal hiring conditions.

If your coming to encore prepare for 5+ years to flow, and from date of hire on the property to westjet captain will be about 12 years. Roughly.

You're guess is as good as mine. Upgrade time at WJ will probably be 12-15 years, NOT including time at WJE. The captain group is young and I don't think that retirements will happen for a while. WB flying will create some movement, but narrow body is stagnant. Rumour is that the company proposed block hour guarantees equal to 2017 hours flown meaning that any WB flying will be offset by moving tails to Swoop.

Encore is good for one thing now: moving to AC. Sad to say, but true.

[sstaurus]

Yep the big bottleneck now is replacing captains at encore. Like said above, flow will stop once they can't replace the captains.

[avbird]

Yep the big bottleneck now is replacing captains at encore. Like said above, flow will stop once they can't replace the captains.

Or you know they just add more captain spots in yyz. Its a yyc issue of lack of qualified FO to upgrade.

[yycinformer]

Can anyone tell me with certainty how the upgrade matrix actually works? Is it by time on type or are you stuck to whatever it says on the opposite side of your TT when you join the company? Meaning if I join with 2000TT, no Q time, once I have 1000 hours on type & 3000TT, can I upgrade then or will I need 1500 on type as that's what is on the other side of the matrix when joining?

[matthew.oommen]

Can anyone tell me with certainty how the upgrade matrix actually works? Is it by time on type or are you stuck to whatever it says on the opposite side of your TT when you join the company? Meaning if I join with 2000TT, no Q time, once I have 1000 hours on type & 3000TT, can I upgrade then or will I need 1500 on type as that's what is on the other side of the matrix when joining?

When you join the company, on day 1, see what flight time you have. If you have over 2000 hours and below 2500 hours, you use the 2000 hour scale. Once you get that time on type, you upgrade. If you start at the company with 1999 hours, you start at the 1500 hour line and not the 2000 hour line. You slide down to the hour line, no sliding up. And when you get more time on type, you don’t interpolate on the scale. It’s just what you have on day 1 for time on type or upgrade calendar times. When you have been in the company for the calendar time duration, if you don’t have the required matrix time for whatever reason, you’ll be eligible for an upgrade anyway. Let me know if I confused you more, took us a little bit to completely understand it.

[yycinformer]

That seems counter productive especially since they need captains. But anyway, what is this calendar time duration? I've not seen or heard of it before

[matthew.oommen]

That seems counter productive especially since they need captains. But anyway, what is this calendar time duration? I've not seen or heard of it before

It’s a new thing based on experience you come here with.

It ranges. Bottom end, 1500 hours when you join, 1750 hours on type, or 24 calendar months in the company, to be eligible for upgrade. Top end, 4000 hour when you join, 500 on type, or 6 months and a recurrent, whichever comes first.

[Dashdriver88]

Anyone have an estimate on upgrade times at WestJet Mainline? Someone off the the street.

[JBI]

Anyone have an estimate on upgrade times at WestJet Mainline? Someone off the the street.

Do you mean off the street directly to mainline and skipping Encore?

Right now YYC base is approximately 15 years, YVR base 14 years and YYZ 11 years. That's still based on COVID Numbers though. Just prior to COVID, 2012 hires were scheduled for YYZ upgrades as the most junior Captain at mainline. Unless WJ exercises a whole bunch of 787 options, I expect those times to increase further. There are many relatively young 737 Captains in their late 30s and early 40s who have another 20+ years in their seat before they retire.

Swoop Captains are significantly more junior, but the reality is that 5th year FO pay at mainline is better than 1st year Captain pay at Swoop.

Don't get me wrong, lots of good reasons to come to WJ and Encore, but a quick upgrade at Mainline isn't one of them.

[Dashdriver88]

Anyone have an estimate on upgrade times at WestJet Mainline? Someone off the the street.

Do you mean off the street directly to mainline and skipping Encore?

Right now YYC base is approximately 15 years, YVR base 14 years and YYZ 11 years. That's still based on COVID Numbers though. Just prior to COVID, 2012 hires were scheduled for YYZ upgrades as the most junior Captain at mainline. Unless WJ exercises a whole bunch of 787 options, I expect those times to increase further. There are many relatively young 737 Captains in their late 30s and early 40s who have another 20+ years in their seat before they retire.

Swoop Captains are significantly more junior, but the reality is that 5th year FO pay at mainline is better than 1st year Captain pay at Swoop.

Don't get me wrong, lots of good reasons to come to WJ and Encore, but a quick upgrade at Mainline isn't one of them.

Thank you so much