No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

[CPT.HarshColdReality]

Omicron seems to be creating havoc out there....(Not the actual virus though...)

[QKZXKV]

Omicron seems to be creating havoc out there....(Not the actual virus though...)

Thanks to our media and politicians. The actual experts I have been critical of, are cluing in that punishing travel is not a "fix".

['97 Tercel]

Yep.

What an overreaction. Society is addicted to fear.

[altiplano]

C'mon guys... What are you anti-science covid skeptical? We have to follow the science and what the media tells us.

[the-minister31]

C'mon guys... What are you anti-science covid skeptical? We have to follow the science and what the media tells us.

Media and science do not sound right when put in the same sentence...

[Dias]

A lot of furloughs are bypassing their recall. AC sweating

[pumpkinpatch]

A lot of furloughs are bypassing their recall. AC sweating

Well when you are fucking over the furloughs contractual right to bid any vacancy their seniority can hold and forcing hundreds of pilots to commute (I think a lot are going to have $$ shock once they realize how much AIFs have increased) it's no suprise.

[bob99]

A lot of furloughs are bypassing their recall. AC sweating

Bypassing on this second round?

[Can Pilot]

A lot of furloughs are bypassing their recall. AC sweating

Bypassing on this second round?

I don't think you will see as many bypassing on this round besides people who are on a LOA.
A number of those pilots who didn't accept recall on round 1 were waiting for YVR positions to become available.
Will be interesting to see what happens.

[pumpkinpatch]

A lot of furloughs are bypassing their recall. AC sweating

Bypassing on this second round?

I don't think you will see as many bypassing on this round besides people who are on a LOA.
A number of those pilots who didn't accept recall on round 1 were waiting for YVR positions to become available.
Will be interesting to see what happens.

Many will be commuting to YYZ for some time I imagine. Too bad we don't have an actual commuting policy or free jumpseat like Jazz. AT is not flying that route either these days. With all the increases in fees, I don't envy anyone who will commute. ACPA and even Murray said they would try to recall people back to their base by offering positions in base but obviously they were only talking about the center of the universe, not the chumps out west. Not even anywhere near the amount of positions need in YVR to have even half of the pilots back home.

[Sharklasers]

A lot of furloughs are bypassing their recall. AC sweating

Once AC works it’s way through the list those people will get the “Come back or be fired” email and AC will start hiring from the thousands of Jazz and un/under employed OTS/expat pilots that have been waiting for the industry to start moving again. The company couldn’t give a shit if those people choose to quit. All the recalls require full courses the only difference in training would be 10 days of PIT the costs of which would be more than offset by all the new pilots coming in at year one day one of flat pay.

“Don’t threaten me with a good time”- AC management.

[tbaylx]

A lot of furloughs are bypassing their recall. AC sweating

Once AC works it’s way through the list those people will get the “Come back or be fired” email and AC will start hiring from the thousands of Jazz and un/under employed OTS/expat pilots that have been waiting for the industry to start moving again. The company couldn’t give a shit if those people choose to quit. All the recalls require full courses the only difference in training would be 10 days of PIT the costs of which would be more than offset by all the new pilots coming in at year one day one of flat pay.

“Don’t threaten me with a good time”- AC management.

There aren't as many OTS/expat pilots unemployed as you may think. Many airlines are in for a shock when they begin hiring again

[Sharklasers]

A lot of furloughs are bypassing their recall. AC sweating

Once AC works it’s way through the list those people will get the “Come back or be fired” email and AC will start hiring from the thousands of Jazz and un/under employed OTS/expat pilots that have been waiting for the industry to start moving again. The company couldn’t give a shit if those people choose to quit. All the recalls require full courses the only difference in training would be 10 days of PIT the costs of which would be more than offset by all the new pilots coming in at year one day one of flat pay.

“Don’t threaten me with a good time”- AC management.

There aren't as many OTS/expat pilots unemployed as you may think. Many airlines are in for a shock when they begin hiring again

AC has shown before they aren’t above going down to the 704s and 703s enmass if needed, that said anecdotally I have half a dozen expat buddies in China and Hong Kong that would come home to Canada if it was for AC. Until the day the USA opens its borders to us Canadian pilots AC will never struggle to recruit.

[JoeyBarton]

Once AC works it’s way through the list those people will get the “Come back or be fired” email and AC will start hiring from the thousands of Jazz and un/under employed OTS/expat pilots that have been waiting for the industry to start moving again. The company couldn’t give a shit if those people choose to quit. All the recalls require full courses the only difference in training would be 10 days of PIT the costs of which would be more than offset by all the new pilots coming in at year one day one of flat pay.

“Don’t threaten me with a good time”- AC management.

There aren't as many OTS/expat pilots unemployed as you may think. Many airlines are in for a shock when they begin hiring again

AC has shown before they aren’t above going down to the 704s and 703s enmass if needed, that said anecdotally I have half a dozen expat buddies in China and Hong Kong that would come home to Canada if it was for AC. Until the day the USA opens its borders to us Canadian pilots AC will never struggle to recruit.

Let's not forget hundreds of applicants from Sunwing Swoop Transat Flair and Porter...All my buddies bottom 150 at Transat will apply here as they are not banned from applying anymore. Lowering the pay to 48k wouldn't change a thing, all these fine people would still apply. At stated above AC will never have any issue hiring. The others will.

[pumpkinpatch]

Anyone willing to work at a major for 48k is not "fine people".

[Dashdriver88]

That is the official company forecast directly from the VP or Flight Ops as of this week.

He hopes they can recall earlier, but they are not forecasting 75% of 2019 levels until spring 2023 and that’s the trigger for recall.

We are currently 1100 pilots over staffed.

I highly doubt that’s the case now.

[pumpkinpatch]

CATSA reporting over 60% of 2019 numbers, this with the "scary" omicron variant. USA has fully recovered. We will be well over 75% by spring 2022.

VP of Flt Ops was wrong. Management at AC will never admit they made a mistake with their recall process. Many people were saying for months that AC is playing with fire waiting as long as they are. VO calls going out 2-5+ times a day right now one some fleets. Pilots reporting multiple calls and pretty much having to tell CS to piss off. Yeah, everything is totally fine.

[altiplano]

That is the official company forecast directly from the VP or Flight Ops as of this week.

He hopes they can recall earlier, but they are not forecasting 75% of 2019 levels until spring 2023 and that’s the trigger for recall.

We are currently 1100 pilots over staffed.

I highly doubt that’s the case now.

Looks like that quote is 6 months old...

That said, they are short and management are liars every day when it comes to giving you the scoop and inside info. Special roadshow or casual visit in the sim.

They say things like that because it's their job to keep labour unsettled, it plays to their advantage to drop rumours like that.

What a screw up this training mess is... it's of their own making and they won't admit it, but still they'll look to us to fix it.

[pumpkinpatch]

That is the official company forecast directly from the VP or Flight Ops as of this week.

He hopes they can recall earlier, but they are not forecasting 75% of 2019 levels until spring 2023 and that’s the trigger for recall.

We are currently 1100 pilots over staffed.

I highly doubt that’s the case now.

Looks like that quote is 6 months old...

That said, they are short and management are liars every day when it comes to giving you the scoop and inside info. Special roadshow or casual visit in the sim.

They say things like that because it's their job to keep labour unsettled, it plays to their advantage to drop rumours like that.

What a screw up this training mess is... it's of their own making and they won't admit it, but still they'll look to us to fix it.

You hit the nail on the head. Look what they got out of the fear of no recalls on the early fall bid. A the new rouge agreement passed at the MEC level without letting the pilots decide. Keep preaching #2023 over and over and keep the pilots fearful. Even as recent as Sept I heard pilots on the line talking about "how there could still be more furloughs coming", like give me a fucking break. Bunch of whipped scared children our pilot group is.

AC should have started recalling in June/July in preparation to have pilots on the line for xmas. They also should have treated the furloughs with some ounce of respect, and followed the contract for the recall process. They are still denying the rights of our pilots to bid into any available vacancy by limiting the options or forcing you to "bypass", and I hope some people give their balls a tug and take it to grievance. This toxic relationship needs to end and it's time they answer for all their contract violations.

[JoeyBarton]

The sad part is I don't think the company saved any money by layingoff 600 folks and down train the 3500 still on property to then up train the 3500 and recall the 600 in a 18 month time frame...Everybody is changing seats...
Also makes you wonder if having 3-4 different types on each NJA and WJA is really to thing to moving forward. Protects the pilots in any downturn but that really is the only advantage given a crisis hits every 8-10 year cycle..

[pumpkinpatch]

The sad part is I don't think the company saved any money by layingoff 600 folks and down train the 3500 still on property to then up train the 3500 and recall the 600 in a 18 month time frame...Everybody is changing seats...
Also makes you wonder if having 3-4 different types on each NJA and WJA is really to thing to moving forward. Protects the pilots in any downturn but that really is the only advantage given a crisis hits every 8-10 year cycle..

I wonder if it would have been cheaper to pay all 600 year 1/2 flat pay pilots to stay home, and come in say once every 6 months to get current and wait it all out. And leave everyone else in their positions. Remember the wage subsidy only just ended a month or two ago, and most of those wages could have been heavily subsidized by the government. The training cost for the downbid, and coming upbid with reinstatement rights can't be cheap. Mind you I'm sure the company was happy to cut 2 years of service out for all of the 600 furloughs. Nothing says "Premier Canadian Airline" like 6 years of flat pay. Oh and forcing recalled pilots into the right seat of a WB, using their one and only course right. Don't like it? Bypass, but then lose even more YOS and pay. This place really seems to miss the mark over and over again on how to treat your employees right. There is no "new relationship" there is no "win as one", it's the company vs. the pilots. And I hope more pilots are waking up to this, and most of all our union. Best of all with all these fatigue issues, and bouncing people around on RAPs, fucking with seating on DH's, calling pilots during what's supposed to be time off etc. there is no "safety first, always" either.

[altiplano]

There is no "new relationship" there is no "win as one", it's the company vs. the pilots. And I hope more pilots are waking up to this, and most of all our union. Best of all with all these fatigue issues, and bouncing people around on RAPs, fucking with seating on DH's, calling pilots during what's supposed to be time off etc. there is no "safety first, always" either.

You've got all the catch phrases in there... it's just lip service. They say it, but they don't believe it. Maybe we do, as pilots, as professionals. But it is US VS. THEM. It always has been, and they have never stopped playing that way, they just talked of the new relationship, did a few road shows, posted is in the head, and tossed us B passes all of which cost them nothing...

“The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist”—Charles Baudelaire.

[imjustlurking]

There is no "new relationship" there is no "win as one", it's the company vs. the pilots. And I hope more pilots are waking up to this, and most of all our union. Best of all with all these fatigue issues, and bouncing people around on RAPs, fucking with seating on DH's, calling pilots during what's supposed to be time off etc. there is no "safety first, always" either.

You've got all the catch phrases in there... it's just lip service. They say it, but they don't believe it. Maybe we do, as pilots, as professionals. But it is US VS. THEM. It always has been, and they have never stopped playing that way, they just talked of the new relationship, did a few road shows, posted is in the head, and tossed us B passes all of which cost them nothing...

“The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist”—Charles Baudelaire.

You are experiencing your career in a very sad way. I hope that you are able to find happiness in your life and career soon.

[altiplano]

There is no "new relationship" there is no "win as one", it's the company vs. the pilots. And I hope more pilots are waking up to this, and most of all our union. Best of all with all these fatigue issues, and bouncing people around on RAPs, fucking with seating on DH's, calling pilots during what's supposed to be time off etc. there is no "safety first, always" either.

You've got all the catch phrases in there... it's just lip service. They say it, but they don't believe it. Maybe we do, as pilots, as professionals. But it is US VS. THEM. It always has been, and they have never stopped playing that way, they just talked of the new relationship, did a few road shows, posted is in the head, and tossed us B passes all of which cost them nothing...

“The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist”—Charles Baudelaire.

You are experiencing your career in a very sad way. I hope that you are able to find happiness in your life and career soon.

Fuçk off wanker.

I'm having a great time in my life. I'm winning at life in my opinion, and I like winning, but ACPA isn't winning, is blindingly obvious that they suck balls at their mandate.

Management aren't our friends, you're fucking naive if they think they are there for you, they will turn you out to McWages and cleaning the shitter if you let them. That's their job, they don't give a shit about the profession, only the bottom line.

[imjustlurking]

You've got all the catch phrases in there... it's just lip service. They say it, but they don't believe it. Maybe we do, as pilots, as professionals. But it is US VS. THEM. It always has been, and they have never stopped playing that way, they just talked of the new relationship, did a few road shows, posted is in the head, and tossed us B passes all of which cost them nothing...

“The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist”—Charles Baudelaire.

You are experiencing your career in a very sad way. I hope that you are able to find happiness in your life and career soon.

Fuçk off wanker.

I'm having a great time in my life. I'm winning at life in my opinion, and I like winning, but ACPA isn't winning, is blindingly obvious that they suck balls at their mandate.

Management aren't our friends, you're fucking naive if they think they are there for you, they will turn you out to McWages and cleaning the shitter if you let them. That's their job, they don't give a shit about the profession, only the bottom line.

Again, I hope that you are able to find happiness in your life and career soon. You aggressive replies are an indication of agitation, displeasure, and general unhappiness. A simple comment wishing you well should not have that effect on you.

I am sad that you don't believe that a professional and courteous relationship between you and your employer is a possibility. That might be a reflection on you, but it can also be a reflection on the company. I would like you to know that not all companies are run by cold blooded penny pinching accountants.