Jazz Contacts Runway Edge Lights In San Diego

[pelmet]

Quite an eventful flight for them......

"C-GJZV, a LP MHI RJ Aviation ULC CRJ-900 operated by Jazz Aviation Ltd, was conducting flight
JZA787 from San Diego International (KSAN), CA to Vancouver International (CYVR), BC with 4
crew members and 69 passengers. The aircraft began its take-off roll left of the center line on
Runway 27, the flight crew noticed they were left of center line and corrected the trajectory. During
cruise at approximatively 110 nm NNW of Los Angeles International (KLAX), CA, a fuel imbalance
was noticed, the checklist was followed and the right hand engine was shutdown. An emergency
was declared and the aircraft diverted to KLAX. During the landing roll out at KLAX, the flight crew
noticed that the airplane was pulling to the left. The aircraft was stopped on the runway. The AARF
advised that the #1 tire from the left main landing gear was deflated and some smoke was coming
out of the wheel. The ARFF sprayed the left main landing gear due to the brake overheat.
Passengers were disembarked and transported to the terminal.

Maintenance found that the fuel imbalance was caused by a faulty Fuel Quantity Gauging
Computer (FQGC). The left hand flap was punctured by an impact with the runway edge lights on
takeoff at KSAN. The maintenance in KLAX temporary repaired the left hand flap, replaced the
FQGC and the #1 tire. The aircraft was flown to Calgary International (CYYC), Calgary under the
authority of a ferry flight permit for further repairs."

Not sure how a runway light impacts a flap unless there was some angle of bank.

[imjustlurking]

It's possible that the tire struck the lights and debris was kicked up at the wing.

[rudder]

It's possible that the tire struck the lights and debris was kicked up at the wing.

Based on the geometry of the CRJ900 landing gear, the airplane would have to be 85-90’ off centreline in order for a main wheel to contact a runway edge light. That scenario is highly unlikely.

More likely, a main tire blew out on take-off (it happens). Debris damaged flap. Crew were unaware. Fuel imbalance was unrelated (FQGC). Landed in LAX with a shredded tire causing the left pulling action on rollout and smoke.

I am curious if there was tire debris left behind on the runway in SAN.

[Loon-A-Tic]

It's possible that the tire struck the lights and debris was kicked up at the wing.

Based on the geometry of the CRJ900 landing gear, the airplane would have to be 85-90’ off centreline in order for a main wheel to contact a runway edge light. That scenario is highly unlikely.

More likely, a main tire blew out on take-off (it happens). Debris damaged flap. Crew were unaware. Fuel imbalance was unrelated (FQGC). Landed in LAX with a shredded tire causing the left pulling action on rollout and smoke.

I am curious if there was tire debris left behind on the runway in SAN.

No mention but maybe the airport authorities found a shattered runway light or two.

[airway]

It's possible that the tire struck the lights and debris was kicked up at the wing.

Based on the geometry of the CRJ900 landing gear, the airplane would have to be 85-90’ off centreline in order for a main wheel to contact a runway edge light. That scenario is highly unlikely.

More likely, a main tire blew out on take-off (it happens). Debris damaged flap. Crew were unaware. Fuel imbalance was unrelated (FQGC). Landed in LAX with a shredded tire causing the left pulling action on rollout and smoke.

I am curious if there was tire debris left behind on the runway in SAN.

From the report:

“ The left hand flap was punctured by an impact with the runway edge lights on
takeoff at KSAN.”

Did they have triple unrelated failures on this flight? Flaps, tires and fuel computer? I suspect at least two of these things are related

[Stratopaused]

https://tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-reports/ ... f0210.html

It sounds like a repeat of the WestJet excursion in KLAS.

Did they have triple unrelated failures on this flight? Flaps, tires and fuel computer? I suspect at least two of these things are related

It was two unrelated events, but both were caused by the crew rushing in a busy, demanding airport:

In this occurrence, the misaligned takeoff and the fuel imbalance were 2 separate and unrelated events, and the investigation treated them as such.

Based on the geometry of the CRJ900 landing gear, the airplane would have to be 85-90’ off centreline in order for a main wheel to contact a runway edge light. That scenario is highly unlikely.

That's exactly what happened.

[daedalusx]

Very experienced crew as well … wild.

Going off memory here, but I seem to remember at Jazz having to tune the LOC freq after line up to confirm runway alignment on a LVOP departure from a displaced threshold. TSB says otherwise
“Jazz’s AOM and COM provide no policies, procedures, or guidance material to pilots with respect to limitations or precautions when operating on runways with displaced thresholds.”


Never mind, it’s addressed at the end of the report

[digits_]

Why would a 20 000 hour pilot be an FO at Jazz? Was this a consequence of the covid layoffs?

[pelmet]

Fairly poor performance for a crew with 18,000 hours time on type.

There was a recent discussion about lining up after the WJ incident. I had a suggestion for prevention in this post....

viewtopic.php?p=1306955#p1306955

"What would be simple? I say, every time you line up on a runway at night, make it a habit - every time - to specifically note in your mind if the runway has two rows of lights or three rows of lights. If it is two, then there are no centerline lights operating and maneuver yourself to be in between the two rows(checking centerline markings for confirmation is a good idea). If you see three rows of lights(all or mostly all should be white lights), then line up on the center row. This takes about a second to recognize what applies for the runway you are taxiing onto and therefore, can be done even when you have a lot of other stuff going on(or you could wait until distractions are gone). Works well."

In this case, there was a difference in that it was a displaced threshold. Therefore, when lining up with the runway edge, they were lined up with red lights. An additional lesson learned is never start the takeoff roll if lined up with red lights. I see that my recommendation is not part of the new considerations in the revised Jazz procedures. Sometimes, it is best to have your own procedures.

As for the imbalance, it appears to have been a simple mis-selection of one of the fuel system switches on the overhead panel by the high time F/O(which perhaps answers a question in an earlier post). Mis-selections can happen on occasion. This led to the imbalance. The CRJ seems quite interesting in that the QRH for an imbalance actually gets you to put a jet into a sideslip(even at cruise altitude) for gravity fuel transfer from the heavy side to the light side after opening the appropriate valve. Yet, they raised the wing with lesser fuel for 3 full minutes making the situation even worse(they didn't advise the cabin crew who called up asking what was going on). Then the interesting QRH procedure has you shut an engine down if the procedure is not successful, which was done.

Mistakes happen. My last CRJ roundtrip on AC Regional had us end up on the cargo ramp in Austin by mistake. Did a tight 180 to get out. No one else noticed but I checked Live ATC a few days later for confirmation.