Sunwing/Westjet

[elite]

tl;dr = a DOH merge is problematic. Encore pilots unlikely to be included in merger. PTA not necessarily dead. What happens is anyone's guess. Life will go on.

Nice research.

DOH will work if the first DOH at the group was used for the pilots that have flown over from Encore even if the PTA is terminated and real DOH is used for future flows?

Common employer for Encore will likely not gain traction from WestJet because it might mean paying them YOS for a job they actually haven’t done to the tune of ….. (are you ready) One million dollars (as Dr. Evil would say!), but a lot more! This is probably the reason they came up with this thing to entice Encore pilots with little cost. But in reality it will end up creating much more problems, not to mention career progression of mainline pilots.

One thing you are right about for sure, life will go on!

[TFTMB heavy]

What you guys forget is that both companies are growing and soon to be actively hiring again. Both were actively hiring prior to the pandemic. Ratios for date of hire don't necessarily get enacted just because of the size of the company being bought out.

WestJet has 150 airplanes and needs X number of captains today.
Sunwing has 40 airplanes and needs y number of captains today.

Assuming a temporary fence goes up for a year or two, both companies will likely have more airplanes two years from now creating a requirement for z number of captains (z>x+y).
If lists were merged strictly by DOH, no one loses a captain seat and no one's upgrade gets delayed. The only thing that gets a littler muddier is perhaps a high seniority Sunwing pilot bumping someone off of the 787 or an Encore pilot delaying a move up to mainline.

Now, it's not a perfect analogy because WestJet management has got multiple brands with different flow agreements to get to mainline etc.

Don't let management use this as a tool to further divide and conquer the employee group.

Will a combined WJ / SW still run the same number of flights to every Caribbean island or Mexican seaside tourist trap?

I doubt it.

There will be a rationalization of capacity to drive yields and efficiencies.

Given that, how can Z be greater than X+Y?

Consolidate to expand. I doubt they're going to sit pretty and be happy with no growth whit all the new players entering the game and the existing competition.

[ALPApolicy]

tl;dr = a DOH merge is problematic. Encore pilots unlikely to be included in merger. PTA not necessarily dead. What happens is anyone's guess. Life will go on.

Nice research.

DOH will work if the first DOH at the group was used for the pilots that have flown over from Encore even if the PTA is terminated and real DOH is used for future flows?

This is possible. But the list that will be sent to SWG will, or should be sent, will have the true DOH's of the already flowed pilots on it. If the SWG Merger Committee is willing to accept these pilots using their super-seniority (DOH PLUS) and keeping the pre-merger WSW/WJA list in the order that it is, then we could do a merger by DOH-ish.

In the end, longevity with an employer is but one factor in the process. Does the above situtation make a ratio merge more likely, at least for that section of the list which is problematic? (2014 to present day)

Common employer for Encore will likely not gain traction from WestJet because it might mean paying them YOS for a job they actually haven’t done to the tune of ….. (are you ready) One million dollars (as Dr. Evil would say!), but a lot more!

With respect, the process that leads to a common employer declaration doesn't require concensus. Section 35 of the Code states that "On application from an employer or trade union...the Board may make a declaration of Single Employer." All that is required is for ALPA to apply.

The purpose of a common employer declaration is remedial. It is meant to correct or avoid a situation where an employer may try to circumvent the CBA by siphoning off work from higher paid employees to lower (often non-union) employees. The purpose is not to increase the bargaining strength of one party over the other. Many, very many WestJet pilots have argued that we should file for common employer in order to increase our strength with WestJet. They misunderstand fully the intent of this provision of the Code. Increasing bargaining strength of one party is SPECIFICALLY ruled out as a reason for the Board to grant the declaration.

Additionally, many, very many WestJet and Encore pilots believe (including an MEC executive member) we should just apply for it if we convince WestJet and Encore that it is in all of our best interests. They misunderstand the CIRB's position in granting the declaration in mainline-connector situations. The Board believes that the current situtation in the airline industry with mainline pilots in one bargaining unit and connector pilots in a separate bargaining unit leads to labour peace. They believed this in 2000 when they denied ALPA's request for common employer between Air Canada its connectors. In that decision, they referred to the Board's previous refusal to grant the request in 1989 (IAMAW request IIRC) and stated that there had been labour peace since that time and no industry changes in that time. Twenty two years later, the industry still has the pattern of mainline pilots in one bargaining unit and connectors in another. That has brought labour relations peace.

In the case of Encore and WestJet, ALPA would have the burden of showing evidence of a loss of either bargaining rights or bargained rights to succeed. Evidence of this would be loss of jobs from one bargaining unit to the other. Instead, both groups have more or less grown. Both WJA pilots and WJE pilots have been able to negotiate CBA's and both have successful grievance procedures in place with management that work. Unless there is something that I am unaware of, which is possible, there is no evidence supporting a common employer declaration.

Moreover, the bargaining unit structures at WJA and WJA are the structures THAT ALPA SPECIFICALLY REQUESTED FIVE YEARS AGO. The Board would not be amused if now ALPA approaches the Board and says we were wrong when all of the evidence is that collective bargaining is working as it supposed to at WestJet and Encore.

After repeatedly making these arguments until I am blue in the face to Encore and WestJet pilots on our internal forum (because I am that pig that enjoys rolling in the mud) they still refuse to do the research. These discussions took place recently but before a hint of any merger. LEC and MEC executives floated the idea. This was shocking to me because it gave false hope with no evidence to back up why they believed this. I suggested that since we already had the One List, which gave their original DOH to the Encore pilots when they were hired at Westjet (SUPER-SENIORITY), why didn't we just negotiate full YOS carry over for those pilots instead and just maintain the PTA? i was told that WJ would never go for it because it was too expensive?

YOS IS TOO EXPENSIVE BUT WE THINK WE CAN CONVINCE WESTJET TO AGREE TO COMMON EMPLOYER?

Anyway, the Board is not going to include Encore in a bargaining unit with WJA/WSW pilots until there is a significant reorganization of WestJet's business structure that the Board believes justifies the situation.

[imjustlurking]

I don't see why bringing SWG in to the list with DOH would be an issue.

PTA:
2.02 Once this LOA becomes effective, any Pilot who is hired at WestJet, Swoop, or Encore
shall be assigned a seniority number based on date of hire at the respective airline.

To include WG in the list would not be extraordinary. Figuring out the pay scales may be more difficult, but the company already knows WS/WO DOH because they need that for YOS.

An updated list can easily be created by using the terms set out in the PTA.

10. CREATION AND ADMINISTRATION OF THE SENIORITY LIST

10.01 As provided in Section 2.01 of this LOA, the Seniority List shall be created by initially
utilizing the WestJet Pilot Seniority List as published on November 1, 2019.

10.02 Pilots hired in the March 19, June 11, and June 25, 2018 classes at Encore and
WestJet/Swoop, Swoop Pilots will be placed on the Seniority List using the draw process
delineated in Section 10.03 of this LOA. Pilots hired in the September 17, 2018 and
January 7, 2019 classes at WestJet and Encore, shall be placed onto the Seniority List as
per the combined draw that took place in those classes.

10.03 Pilots hired in the March 19, June 11, and June 25, 2018 classes at Encore and
WestJet/Swoop, shall be subject to the following process when determining placement
on the Seniority List:

- 10.03.01 A representative from both the WestJet/Swoop and Encore MECs shall meet
for the purpose of determining placement on the Seniority List. The affected
Pilots may attend the meeting(s) and shall be provided the date, time, and
location of such meeting(s).

- 10.03.02 At such meeting(s), all affected Pilots’ names shall be written on a piece of
paper and placed in a container. A coin toss shall determine the order of
selection. The winner of the coin toss (either a WestJet/Swoop or an Encore
representative) shall select the first sheet of paper containing an affected
Pilot’s name for placement on the Seniority List. The remaining
representative(s) shall select a sheet of paper containing an affected Pilot’s
name for placement on the Seniority List directly after the name of the
previously placed affected Pilot. This process shall continue until all names
have been placed on the Seniority List.

- 10.03.03 Once complete, this process shall be used for any other classes having the same
start dates.

10.04 Once this process is complete, the Seniority List shall be shared with the airline
managements (WestJet, Swoop, and Encore). Thereafter, an electronic copy of the
Seniority List, as amended, shall at a minimum be posted on the WestJet/Swoop and
Encore MEC websites and made available on applicable airline EFBs.

10.05 The Association shall be responsible for maintaining the Seniority List in accordance with
Section 2.02 of this LOA.

10.06 Any disputes arising under this Agreement shall be resolved via the grievance procedures
set out in the Collective Agreement applicable to the grievor at the time the grievance is filed.

[ALPApolicy]

I don't see why bringing SWG in to the list with DOH would be an issue.

PTA:
2.02 Once this LOA becomes effective, any Pilot who is hired at WestJet, Swoop, or Encore
shall be assigned a seniority number based on date of hire at the respective airline.

To include WG in the list would not be extraordinary. Figuring out the pay scales may be more difficult, but the company already knows WS/WO DOH because they need that for YOS.

An updated list can easily be created by using the terms set out in the PTA.

10. CREATION AND ADMINISTRATION OF THE SENIORITY LIST

10.01 As provided in Section 2.01 of this LOA, the Seniority List shall be created by initially
utilizing the WestJet Pilot Seniority List as published on November 1, 2019.

10.02 Pilots hired in the March 19, June 11, and June 25, 2018 classes at Encore and
WestJet/Swoop, Swoop Pilots will be placed on the Seniority List using the draw process
delineated in Section 10.03 of this LOA. Pilots hired in the September 17, 2018 and
January 7, 2019 classes at WestJet and Encore, shall be placed onto the Seniority List as
per the combined draw that took place in those classes.

10.03 Pilots hired in the March 19, June 11, and June 25, 2018 classes at Encore and
WestJet/Swoop, shall be subject to the following process when determining placement
on the Seniority List:

- 10.03.01 A representative from both the WestJet/Swoop and Encore MECs shall meet
for the purpose of determining placement on the Seniority List. The affected
Pilots may attend the meeting(s) and shall be provided the date, time, and
location of such meeting(s).

- 10.03.02 At such meeting(s), all affected Pilots’ names shall be written on a piece of
paper and placed in a container. A coin toss shall determine the order of
selection. The winner of the coin toss (either a WestJet/Swoop or an Encore
representative) shall select the first sheet of paper containing an affected
Pilot’s name for placement on the Seniority List. The remaining
representative(s) shall select a sheet of paper containing an affected Pilot’s
name for placement on the Seniority List directly after the name of the
previously placed affected Pilot. This process shall continue until all names
have been placed on the Seniority List.

- 10.03.03 Once complete, this process shall be used for any other classes having the same
start dates.

10.04 Once this process is complete, the Seniority List shall be shared with the airline
managements (WestJet, Swoop, and Encore). Thereafter, an electronic copy of the
Seniority List, as amended, shall at a minimum be posted on the WestJet/Swoop and
Encore MEC websites and made available on applicable airline EFBs.

10.05 The Association shall be responsible for maintaining the Seniority List in accordance with
Section 2.02 of this LOA.

10.06 Any disputes arising under this Agreement shall be resolved via the grievance procedures
set out in the Collective Agreement applicable to the grievor at the time the grievance is filed.

I am sure anything is possible. But the steps that get us from here to there require merging of the SWG bargaining unit with the WJA/WSW bargaining unit first (following a successful Single Employer request and declaration). Following that declaration, the process begins to negotiate a merged seniority list. I am unsure if the Encore pilots are or can be part of that process. Would the SWG pilots object to them being part of the process?

Once a merged seniority list (negotiated or arbitrated) in in place, the issue of the PTA can be addressed. One possible scenario is that the arbitrator is tasked with fashioning the merged SWG/WSW/WJA list with reference to the PTA's affects following the merged list.

[ALPApolicy]

I know that politically it was almost impossible for the ALPA MEC to follow ALPA Board of Directors policy when they negotiated the first CBA. It was the WJPA and WestJet who negotiated the One List as a carrot to prospective Encore applicants and WestJet pilots overwhelmingly voted in favour of it (91%) and so ALPA faced a lot of pressure against putting an end to what was promised to Encore pilots. And it must be recognized that all OTS pilots who were hired at WestJet post 2014 and prior to certification were aware of the One List.

According to ALPA's Constitution and Bylaws, it is an offense to go against an ALPA BOD policy. The BOD policy on seniority list construction has been in place since 1956 and is very clear. Seniority lists shall be based on date of hire with the Company. Length of service begins the day the pilot first reports for training. This policy is the oldest continually-in-existence ALPA policy and has had only minor revisions for changes in civil rights legislation in USA and Canada. WestJet pilots once argued with me that "Company" meant the Westjet group of companies that owns WJA and WJE. A recent WJA grievance decision which I will not specifically describe, clearly delineated the contours of employment at Westjet and Encore. WestJet is one company and Encore is another. You can be fired at Encore and still have recall rights at WestJet (for instance).

What is attached here is

i) the original ALPA BOD resolution on seniority list construction
ii) A 1967 ALPA Policy handbook
iii) a recent excerpt from the ALPA Administrative Manual

ALPA_1956_BOD_Resolution_Seniority_Definition_resize.jpg (1.44 MiB) Viewed 3380 times

ALPA_1956_Seniority_Policy.jpg (601.7 KiB) Viewed 3380 times

ALPA_Administrative_Manual_Section_40-23-24-page-002.jpg (440.15 KiB) Viewed 3380 times

[ALPApolicy]

You will note that the policy was specifically put in place, as it states, to avoid future controversy in the event of mergers, acquisitions, etc. And that's where we are now.

When the ALPA Organizing Committee was trying to convince WestJet pilots to sign a card, one of the perks of ALPA we were told was its "tool box". While I am a convert to ALPA now and wouldn't want to leave (warts and all), if you are not going to use the tools (i.e. POLICY) you are defeating the benefits of ALPA.

That said, would I have wanted to be the one to deny the One List to Encore pilots? No. But if I were the MEC Chairman at the time I merely would have stated that my hands are tied. I have no choice but to follow the Constitution and BOD policy.

That's it. I'm out for a bit.

I wish the best of outcomes for all us.

John

[elite]

…. If the SWG Merger Committee is willing to accept these pilots using their super-seniority (DOH PLUS) and keeping the pre-merger WSW/WJA list in the order that it is, then we could do a merger by DOH-ish.

In the end, longevity with an employer is but one factor in the process. Does the above situtation make a ratio merge more likely, at least for that section of the list which is problematic? (2014 to present day)….

This is a good solution: a combo of DOH and ratio near the part that has the Encore PTA effect; ratio of 5 to 1 (number of pilots) between SWG and WJ/Swoop, which combined with no bump, no flush, will protect everyone in their seats & pay.

For a merger based on DOH, SWG pilots may have issues with super seniority and want a DOH WJ/swoop list. As for Encore, a better compensation and a better flow of (near 100%?) might be a solution, combined with expansion and growth.

[hst]

John,

Things were so much simpler when we “lowering the gear with a flush of the lav”.


GG

[ALPApolicy]

John,

Things were so much simpler when we “lowering the gear with a flush of the lav”.


GG

Too funny!!!

[imjustlurking]

I am lost.

I recognize that WS/WO has a list of pilots sorted by DOH and then further sorted by a hat draw. Encore has the same.
I also recognize that if WG is merging into WS/WO, the list will be merged there.

With that said, I don't see how this would affect the PTA as positions bids are contractually awarded in order of the PTA list. Vacations are awarded in order of aircraft/base/position (YYZ 737 FO, YYZ 737 CP, YYC 737 FO, ect.).

Cancellation of the PTA is subject to a ratification vote by the party looking to sever the agreement AND cannot be done in an "arbitrary, discriminatory or bad faith manner." Of course the last bit has no real meaning, but the intent behind it could push an arbitrator to refuse the cancellation.

[ALPApolicy]

I am lost.

I recognize that WS/WO has a list of pilots sorted by DOH and then further sorted by a hat draw. Encore has the same.
I also recognize that if WG is merging into WS/WO, the list will be merged there.

With that said, I don't see how this would affect the PTA as positions bids are contractually awarded in order of the PTA list. Vacations are awarded in order of aircraft/base/position (YYZ 737 FO, YYZ 737 CP, YYC 737 FO, ect.).

Cancellation of the PTA is subject to a ratification vote by the party looking to sever the agreement AND cannot be done in an "arbitrary, discriminatory or bad faith manner." Of course the last bit has no real meaning, but the intent behind it could push an arbitrator to refuse the cancellation.

There may be a WS/WO seniority list of pilots sorted by DOH, but I have never seen one and I doubt anyone had before the events of the last week.

As I stated above, the PTA is not necessarily dead. I am reasonably sure (doubt exists in my mind) that the pre-merger order of the pilots on the theoretical WS/WO seniority list post-2014 will be maintained. In other words, I *think* that the order of the non-DOH section of that seniority list will be maintained in a merged seniority list with SWG pilots. Although there is no law or rule I can find that states this, the goal of an arbitrated list (according to CIRB principles) is the maintenance, to the extent possible, of pre-merger bargained rights (i.e. seniority position).

Once the merged seniority list is complete, with the pre-merger relative positions intact, the PTA may be still operable. If it is, where do you put the Encore flow pilot when he flows? It can't specifically be just DOH because there will be a mixture of SWG pilots in there. Perhaps it is not a big deal, but we are talking a range of numbers where the Encore pilot could be placed in among the SWG pilots. Perhaps a simple method is devised where you put him ahead of, behind, or in the middle of the SWG pilots that are located between the pilot ahead of him and the pilot behind him on the original One List.

If the non-DOH section of the WS/WO is not maintained (really, really, really small possibility) in an arbitrated list, then the PTA would be dead as well. So, it is vitally important to all Encore pilots, past and present that the pre-merger order be maintained. ( I need to look at the Kaplan award that confirmed the order of some or all pilots on the WS/WO/WE "Seniority List", aka the One List. The relative order of arbitrated seniority lists in mergers usually cannot be changed in subsequent mergers.)

[ALPApolicy]

Regarding the pre-merger order of seniority lists, the matter was discussed in the CP/PWA merger in the 1991 case. (See the unsuccessful appeal in 1993 by the former EPA pilots here):

Beyond that, and by way of more general statement of principle, I am of the view that an arbitrator in a seniority integration dispute must regard as the "incoming" lists, so to speak, the ones by which the two bargaining units have been governed to that point. For at least two reasons, an arbitrator should resist attempts by either party to re-order, for purposes of the litigation, its "incoming" seniority list. The first reason is the possibility of self-serving manipulation. That is always a concern where a party has altered the status quo in contemplation of litigation.

The second reason is that in some instances, and this is one of them, to allow the re-ordering of an "incoming" list would be to negate the final and binding character of prior arbitration awards. Let me be clearly understood. I am not saying that such re-ordering is a legal impossibility. It is not necessary for me to come to a judgment on that question. It is enough for me to say, as I do, that it is not good policy for a seniority integration arbitrator to effectively cast aside an award which emanated from an earlier like proceeding in which individual seniority rights were declared, and upon which intervening reliances have been placed.

[imjustlurking]

I am lost.

I recognize that WS/WO has a list of pilots sorted by DOH and then further sorted by a hat draw. Encore has the same.
I also recognize that if WG is merging into WS/WO, the list will be merged there.

With that said, I don't see how this would affect the PTA as positions bids are contractually awarded in order of the PTA list. Vacations are awarded in order of aircraft/base/position (YYZ 737 FO, YYZ 737 CP, YYC 737 FO, ect.).

Cancellation of the PTA is subject to a ratification vote by the party looking to sever the agreement AND cannot be done in an "arbitrary, discriminatory or bad faith manner." Of course the last bit has no real meaning, but the intent behind it could push an arbitrator to refuse the cancellation.

There may be a WS/WO seniority list of pilots sorted by DOH, but I have never seen one and I doubt anyone had before the events of the last week.

As I stated above, the PTA is not necessarily dead. I am reasonably sure (doubt exists in my mind) that the pre-merger order of the pilots on the theoretical WS/WO seniority list post-2014 will be maintained. In other words, I *think* that the order of the non-DOH section of that seniority list will be maintained in a merged seniority list with SWG pilots. Although there is no law or rule I can find that states this, the goal of an arbitrated list (according to CIRB principles) is the maintenance, to the extent possible, of pre-merger bargained rights (i.e. seniority position).

Once the merged seniority list is complete, with the pre-merger relative positions intact, the PTA may be still operable. If it is, where do you put the Encore flow pilot when he flows? It can't specifically be just DOH because there will be a mixture of SWG pilots in there. Perhaps it is not a big deal, but we are talking a range of numbers where the Encore pilot could be placed in among the SWG pilots. Perhaps a simple method is devised where you put him ahead of, behind, or in the middle of the SWG pilots that are located between the pilot ahead of him and the pilot behind him on the original One List.

If the non-DOH section of the WS/WO is not maintained (really, really, really small possibility) in an arbitrated list, then the PTA would be dead as well. So, it is vitally important to all Encore pilots, past and present that the pre-merger order be maintained. ( I need to look at the Kaplan award that confirmed the order of some or all pilots on the WS/WO/WE "Seniority List", aka the One List. The relative order of arbitrated seniority lists in mergers usually cannot be changed in subsequent mergers.)

Why can't WG pilots be seen the same as WS pilots once the merger is complete?

Make the one-list with everyone slotted in based on DOH. If there is a conflict (same day), fold them in in an alternating fashion (WS group/WG/WS group/WG...).

To figure out the current day's list, extract the pilots from the airline that you want in the same order that they appear.

[ALPApolicy]

Some relevant sections of the LOA authorizing the PTA:

LETTER OF AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE AIRLINE PILOTS IN THE SERVICE OF WESTJET, AN ALBERTA PARTNERSHIP, AND SWOOP,
INC, AND THE AIRLINE PILOTS IN THE SERVICE OF WESTJET ENCORE AS REPRESENTED BY THE AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION, INTERNATIONAL (THE “ASSOCIATION” OR “ALPA”) AND WESTJET, AN ALBERTA PARTNERSHIP (WESTJET), SWOOP, INC (SWOOP), AND WESTJET ENCORE (ENCORE)

(HEREINAFTER COLLECTIVELY REFERRED TO AS THE “PARTIES”)

TRANSFERS BETWEEN WESTJET AND SWOOP AND ENCORE

WHEREAS, in 2013, before the certification of ALPA as the exclusive bargaining agent, WestJet leadership in collaboration with the WestJet Pilot’s Association (“WJPA”) developed the Pilot Career Progression Policy outlining the process for WestJet Encore pilots to transition to WestJet.

WHEREAS, WestJet leadership and WJPA, recognized the importance of interest-focused employee relations, and adopted a “Single Pilot Department List” for WestJet and WestJet Encore pilots WHEREAS, the Parties hold a shared interest in continuing the transfer of pilots between WestJet, Swoop, and Encore.

WHEREAS, except as provided for in this Letter of Agreement (“LOA”), nothing herein is intended to modify, supersede or otherwise amend the contractual provisions negotiated in the WestJet Collective Agreement, the Encore Collective Agreement, or the Swoop letter of understanding.
NOW THERFORE, the Parties agree to the following:

1. That the above recitals are true and shall form part of this LOA.

2. SENIORITY

2.01 A combined seniority list, known as the “Seniority List,” shall be created through the process provided for in Section 10, below. Once created, the Seniority List shall be used for transfers between Swoop and WestJet, and between Encore and Swoop or WestJet.

2.02 Once this LOA becomes effective, any Pilot who is hired at WestJet, Swoop, or Encore shall be assigned a seniority number based on date of hire at the respective airline.
.
.
.
3.03. Upon meeting all minimum qualification requirements (e.g., flight hours, insurance requirements, etc.) at WestJet or Swoop respectively and any requirements imposed by the collective agreements or other applicable agreement, an Encore Pilot shall have the right to bid and be awarded any Vacant Positions at WestJet or Swoop based upon their Seniority on the Seniority List.

3.04. Upon commencement of active employment at WestJet or Swoop, an Encore Pilot transferred in accordance with Section 3.03 of this LOA shall have his or her length of service from date of hire at Encore transferred to WestJet or Swoop and used for seniority for bidding purposes, vacation allotment and bidding points.

3.05. Upon commencement of active employment at WestJet or Swoop, an Encore Pilot transferred in accordance with Section 3.03 of this LOA shall have the remaining value of his or her sick (subject to WestJet Collective Agreement maximum) and vacation banks, transferred to WestJet or Swoop.
.
.
.
. WESTJET OR SWOOP LAYOFF AND RECALL

8.01. Any Pilot who has been laid off from WestJet or Swoop shall be able to move (bump) into Encore in order of Seniority on the Seniority List.

8.02 An exercise of bumping rights according to 8.01 is entirely voluntary for a Pilot.

8.03 A Pilot moving from WestJet or Swoop to Encore in accordance with 8.01 above shall retain full credit for the Pilot’s length of service at WestJet or Swoop. Seniority accrued on the Seniority List will be used to determine applicable Pay and Benefits as delineated in the Collective Agreement between Encore and the Association (e.g. a Pilot with four (4) years of service at WestJet will carry four (4) years of service at Encore).

8.04 A Pilot who has transferred to Encore according to 8.01 will continue to accrue Seniority on the Seniority List

8.05 A Pilot moving from WestJet or Swoop to Encore in accordance with 8.01 above, shall not be bound by the equipment freeze provision stated in 5.04 in the event of a recall to WestJet.

8.06 In the event of a recall at WestJet or Swoop, the provisions of SECTION 20 LAYOFF AND RECALL of the Collective Agreement between WestJet and the Association shall apply.

9. ENCORE LAYOFF AND RECALL

9.01 A Pilot at Encore shall be subject to the layoff and recall provisions of the Encore collective agreement.

10. CREATION AND ADMINISTRATION OF THE SENIORITY LIST

10.01 As provided in Section 2.01 of this LOA, the Seniority List shall be created by initially utilizing the WestJet Pilot Seniority List as published on November 1, 2019.

10.02 Pilots hired in the March 19, June 11, and June 25, 2018 classes at Encore and WestJet/Swoop, Swoop Pilots will be placed on the Seniority List using the draw process delineated in Section 10.03 of this LOA. Pilots hired in the September 17, 2018 and January 7, 2019 classes at WestJet and Encore, shall be placed onto the Seniority List as per the combined draw that took place in those classes.

10.03 Pilots hired in the March 19, June 11, and June 25, 2018 classes at Encore and WestJet/Swoop, shall be subject to the following process when determining placement on the Seniority List:

10.03.01 A representative from both the WestJet/Swoop and Encore MECs shall meet for the purpose of determining placement on the Seniority List. The affected Pilots may attend the meeting(s) and shall be provided the date, time, and location of such meeting(s).

10.03.02 At such meeting(s), all affected Pilots’ names shall be written on a piece of paper and placed in a container. A coin toss shall determine the order of selection. The winner of the coin toss (either a WestJet/Swoop or an Encore representative) shall select the first sheet of paper containing an affected Pilot’s name for placement on the Seniority List. The remaining representative(s) shall select a sheet of paper containing an affected Pilot’s name for placement on the Seniority List directly after the name of the previously placed affected Pilot. This process shall continue until all names have been placed on the Seniority List.

10.03.03 Once complete, this process shall be used for any other classes having the same start dates.

10.04 Once this process is complete, the Seniority List shall be shared with the airline managements (WestJet, Swoop, and Encore). Thereafter, an electronic copy of the Seniority List, as amended, shall at a minimum be posted on the WestJet/Swoop and Encore MEC websites and made available on applicable airline EFBs.

10.05 The Association shall be responsible for maintaining the Seniority List in accordance with Section 2.02 of this LOA.

10.06 Any disputes arising under this Agreement shall be resolved via the grievance procedures set out in the Collective Agreement applicable to the grievor at the time the grievance is filed.

11. AMENDMENTS AND EFFECTIVE DATE

11.01 A Party seeking modifications to this LOA shall provide written notification of its desire to amend this LOA. Thereafter, meetings to address such request for modifications shall occur within thirty (30) calendar days. Nothing contained herein shall prevent the Parties from utilizing a facilitator to help resolve any differences.

11.02 This LOA is subject to a ratification vote by eligible pilots of WestJet/Swoop and Encore. It shall become effective only after it is ratified by a majority of ALPA members at WestJet/Swoop and a majority of ALPA members at Encore. This LOA will run concurrent with both the WestJet/Swoop and Encore Collective Agreements.

11.03 Notwithstanding any other provision in this LOA, this LOA may be cancelled by any Party to this LOA provided the Party doing so notifies the other Parties in writing of its intent. If said notice is provided, this LOA will become null and void ninety (90) days after the notice is received. If this LOA is cancelled, any Pilot who has received a reserved seniority number in accordance with the terms of this LOA prior to the date of cancellation will be protected and shall continue to use their reserved seniority number for all purposes described in this LOA. The Parties shall not exercise their rights under this provision in an arbitrary, discriminatory or bad faith manner.

11.03.01 The cancellation of this LOA is subject to a ratification vote by eligible Pilots in the applicable bargaining unit that has served notice, pursuant to 11.03.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, the Parties hereto have signed this Transfers Between WestJet and Swoop and Encore (The “Seniority List”) Letter of Agreement this _________ day of _________,
20__.

It appears to me that the primary purpose of the WestJet group Seniority List is to govern transfers between group companies. It does not replace the WSW/WJA bargaining unit seniority list, should such a creature be found. In fact it doesn't mention the seniority section of the WJA CBA nor of the WJE CBA. What is the order of the WSW/WJA seniority list? It does state that a pilot carries his or her length of service from Encore DOH to WestJet or Swoop for bidding purposes.

Does it make a difference that it doen't mention anything about seniority list position on the WSW/WJA? Or does it matter since "bidding purposes" as stated is what seniority gives a pilot?

[cloak]

There may be a WS/WO seniority list of pilots sorted by DOH, but I have never seen one and I doubt anyone had before the events of the last week.

I believe a WS/WO list existed prior to this PTA.

[ALPApolicy]

Why can't WG pilots be seen the same as WS pilots once the merger is complete?

Make the one-list with everyone slotted in based on DOH. If there is a conflict (same day), fold them in in an alternating fashion (WS group/WG/WS group/WG...).

To figure out the current day's list, extract the pilots from the airline that you want in the same order that they appear.

Once the merger is complete, this means that there is a merged seniority list for the WSW/WJA/SWG bargaining unit (SunWing Airlines could theoretically still be in operation, as Swoop is now). Up until this point, are Encore pilots entitled to a seat at the table discussing matters that pertain only to SWG, WSW, and WJA matters (i.e. the merged seniority list for the SWG/WSW/WJA bargaining unit)? Do the SWG pilots need to have the "Seniority List" (the One List") in hand to recognize effects of SUPER-SENIORITY for incoming Encore pilots who theoretically will parachute past them according to the PTA protocols?

The PTA LOA posted above, would need renegotiation (IMHO) based on or depending on the revised merged seniority list. But I need to look at the competing interests of the PTA LOA, which does not affect the definition of Seniority in the WJA/WSW CBA versus the WSW/WJA seniority list from the CBA. It just may be that the seniority list for the WJA/WSW bargaining unit is ordered by DOH at WSW/WJA with no accounting for length of service at Encore and in a different order from the "Seniority List". Practically it doesn't matter because the PTA supercedes that list for the purposes of bidding etc, as stated in the PTA.

I don't want to get ahead of myself, but this is a confusing situation.

[ALPApolicy]

I believe a WS/WO list existed prior to this PTA.

I have just commisioned a Hunter-Killer team to track down the creature and bring it back, dead or alive.

[cloak]

.

[elite]

Why can't WG pilots be seen the same as WS pilots once the merger is complete?

Make the one-list with everyone slotted in based on DOH. If there is a conflict (same day), fold them in in an alternating fashion (WS group/WG/WS group/WG...).

Imagine if WestJet pilots were presented with a list from Sunwing that had all the graduates from Seneca college from 2013 onward on it with the promise that they will have that number once they come over. And there was about 500 of them!

[Canadaflyer46]

What is becoming very obvious is that the PTA is, to quote ALPA, an "unworkable document". There's a reason PTAs don't exist anywhere else. It's a typical example of WJ once again trying to reinvent the wheel. It was their way to "divide and conquer" and keep the pilot groups separate, yet also have a flow carrot to dangle to keep Encore conditions sub par. Now it's likely to make the merger more complicated. They can either try to file for common employer, or tear up the PTA and send the Encore guys packing. The latter option is much simpler so my money would be on that.
I remember John posting relentlessly on here a couple years ago about how the PTA was a bad idea and unworkable, well he's sure as hell been proved right I'd say.

[Sharklasers]

As of late all of Johns comments are insightful, intelligent and extremely well researched.

[ALPApolicy]

The following are the seniority provisions of the WSW/WJA CBA. It must be compared with the PTA above to see which sections are modified and to see if there are conflicts in definitions. I immediately see mention of the Pilot Seniority List, which is composed of members of the bargaining unit only. This document is not available at this time to WestJet or Swoop pilots. It appears to be ordered by date of hire at WestJet or Swoop (the Company) except for those pilots who flowed over to WestJet or Swoop prior to January 1, 2019. The PSL or WPSL does not appear to have been extinguished by the PTA. It has either been put into a locked safe, stashed under a rug, or the VP Flt OPs and the MEC Chair at the time ripped it up into little pieces and both of them ate it.

COLLECTIVE AGREEMENT
between and the AIRLINE PILOTS in the service of WESTJET, AN ALBERTA PARTNERSHIP and SWOOP, INC.
as represented by the AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION, INTERNATIONAL
Effective 01 JAN 2019 to 31 DEC 2022

DEFINITIONS AND ABBREVIATIONS

1. DEFINITIONS

Length of Service

The period of employment commencing from the date of hire at the Company as a pilot and adjusted as necessary, pursuant to the terms of this Agreement.

Permanent Base (Base)

A specific airport designated by the Company as per this Agreement and indicated on the Pilot Seniority List (PSL) from which a Pilot carries out scheduled flying.

Pilot

A pilot employed by the Company who is a member of the bargaining unit.

Pilot Seniority List (PSL/WPSL)

The PSL is the list of pilots who are employed by WestJet, and Swoop.

Seniority

The position a pilot holds on the Pilot Seniority List (PSL/WPSL).

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3 – SENIORITY

3-1. PILOT SENIORITY LIST

3-1.01. The Company shall maintain an updated Pilot Seniority List (PSL). The PSL shall be published quarterly (Jan 1, Apr 1, Jul 1, Oct 1) with a copy to the Association. The PSL shall be posted electronically on the Company intranet and shall remain there until replaced by an updated PSL. The PSL will also be made available on the EFB.

3-1.02. Only Pilots whose names appear on the PSL are authorized to operate aircraft used by the Company in its flight operations, except as otherwise provided for in this Agreement.

3-1.03. The PSL shall show the Seniority of each Pilot by name, Rank, Permanent Base, Equipment, Status, and date of hire (DOH) of all Pilots employed by the Company.

3-1.04. Except as otherwise provided in this Agreement, Seniority shall begin to accrue from a Pilot’s DOH as a Pilot with the Company and shall continue to accrue during such period of service.

3-2. CORRECTION TO SENIORITY LIST

3-2.01. A Pilot shall have thirty (30) days following publication of the PSL to contest, in writing to the Chief Pilot – Crew Management or designate, any alleged error or omission related to them. If a Pilot is on leave at the time the PSL is published, they shall have thirty (30) days from their return to work to contest.

3-2.02. The Chief Pilot – Crew Management or designate will issue their decision in writing to the Pilot within fifteen (15) calendar days of the receipt of the contest. The MEC Chair will be copied on any decision.

3-2.03. A Pilot may not contest the same identical alleged error or omission twice.

3-2.04. New alleged errors or omissions on this list may be contested later when subsequent lists are posted. Typographical errors, however, may be corrected at any time.

3-2.05. Before filing a grievance, a Pilot must first follow the process delineated in 3-2.01 above. The timelines for filing a grievance will begin to run from the date the Pilot receives a decision in writing from the Chief Pilot – Crew Management or designate.

3-3. ATTRIBUTION OF SENIORITY NUMBER

3-3.01. On the date this Agreement becomes effective, the following pilots shall hold the same Seniority they held on the WestJet Pilots Department List (WPDL) on the date this Agreement becomes effective:

a) A Pilot who is in the bargaining unit as defined in SECTION 2 - GENERAL (Association Recognition); and,
b) A Management Pilot as defined in SECTION 18 - MANAGEMENT PILOTS.
Within ninety (90) calendar days of the effective date of this Agreement, the Parties agree to meet to review and finalize the PSL.

3-3.02. When two (2) or more Pilots have the same date of employment, their standing in the Pilot Seniority List shall be based on a lottery draw. The Association will conduct the lottery draw.

3-4. APPLICATION OF SENIORITY

3-4.01. Unless otherwise specified in this Agreement, and subject to law, regulation, and/or stipulated Company minimum required qualifications, a Pilot’s Seniority shall govern the rights between Pilots such as the awarding of Positions, base transfer, a change in aircraft Type, involuntary transfer, layoff, bumping, and recall, etc.

3-5. LOSS OF SENIORITY STANDING

3-5.01. A Pilot shall lose their Seniority standing when:

a) They are dismissed, resign or retire;
b) They are laid off for more than one hundred twenty (120) consecutive months;
c) They refuse recall/bypass, in accordance with SECTION 20 - LAYOFF AND RECALL; or,
d) They neglect to answer a recall, in accordance with SECTION 20 - LAYOFF AND RECALL.
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20 – LAYOFF AND RECALL

20-1. LAYOFF

20-1.01. The Company shall notify the Association a minimum of forty-five (45) calendar days prior to the effective date of layoff.

20-1.02. Prior to any layoff(s), all surplus Position(s) shall be to the extent possible first dealt with through the following adjustment plan measures:
a) Personal Leave of Absence program (“PLOA”), as per SECTION 28 - LEAVES OF ABSENCE; and,
b) voluntary layoff.

Within seven (7) calendar days of the notice in 20-1.01 being provided, the Parties will meet to discuss the possible alteration of the PLOA program and/or voluntary layoff. Any changes to the PLOA program must be with the written consent of the Parties. The discussions above will not prevent or delay the Company from implementing layoffs.

20-1.03. When there is a layoff, it shall be made in reverse Seniority order, regardless of Permanent Base. A Pilot on a leave of absence shall not be exempt from layoff.

[ALPApolicy]

Okay I remember this:

3-3.01. On the date this Agreement becomes effective, the following pilots shall hold the same Seniority they held on the WestJet Pilots Department List (WPDL) on the date this Agreement becomes effective:

a) A Pilot who is in the bargaining unit as defined in SECTION 2 - GENERAL

So on the date this CBA became effective, January 1, 2019, pilots on the old One List, the WPDL (WestJet Pilot Departmental List), and employed at WestJet or Swoop, kept their order on the new PSL composed of only WSW/WJA pilots. From roughly 2014 on, until this date, January 1, 2019, there is a mixture of DOH and DOH PLUS pilots on the PSL. This was the first violation of the ALPA BOD Seniority List Construction Policy.

The challenge next was how to get the pilots at Encore on to the new PSL, once they flowed, in the order they held on the WPDL. This resulted in the PTA agreement. Regardless of what conflicts the PTA might have, there can definitely be no challenge to the PSL as it existed on January 1, 2019. Pilots not in order of their WJA/WSL DOH are guaranteed their relative position no matter what happens in a future merger.

In the event of a merger with SWG pilots, how secure in their relative position on the PSL are the pilots who flowed over as a result of the PTA and are now employed at WSW/WJA or with recall rights?

[ALPApolicy]

From the PTA:

WHEREAS, except as provided for in this Letter of Agreement (“LOA”), nothing herein is intended to modify, supersede or otherwise amend the contractual provisions negotiated in the WestJet Collective Agreement...

NOW THERFORE, the Parties agree to the following:

2.01 A combined seniority list, known as the “Seniority List,” shall be created through the process provided for in Section 10, below. Once created, the Seniority List shall be used for transfers between Swoop and WestJet, and between Encore and Swoop or WestJet.

From the WestJet CBA:

3-1.01. The Company shall maintain an updated Pilot Seniority List (PSL)...

3-1.02. Only Pilots whose names appear on the PSL are authorized to operate aircraft used by the Company in its flight operations, except as otherwise provided for in this Agreement.

3-1.03. The PSL shall show the Seniority of each Pilot by name, Rank, Permanent Base, Equipment, Status, and date of hire (DOH) of all Pilots employed by the Company.

3-1.04. Except as otherwise provided in this Agreement, Seniority shall begin to accrue from a Pilot’s DOH as a Pilot with the Company and shall continue to accrue during such period of service.

I recognize that the intent of the parties to the PTA was that the PTA and the "Seniority List" it generated be used for all transfers between companies and for base, aircraft type, and status bidding. The PSL however, generated by the WSW/WJA CBA, is the only document created that contains only the pilots of WSW/WJA and appears to place pilots hired after January 1, 2019 onto it by DOH at WSW or WJA.

I think what we have here is a WSW/WJA seniority list, the PSL, that has three ranges:

1996 - 2014: DOH
2014 - January 1, 2019: DOH/DOH PLUS
January 2, 2019 - present: DOH

This might be the document that gets handed to the SWG Merger Committee, except all pilots, regardless if they are ordered by DOH at WSW/WJA or not will have their WSW/WJA DOH listed on the PSL.

Okay, I think we're good here.